Upgrade: AMP or Speakers?

[jeanseb]

So I just came back from the A/V store to look for new speakers (B&W 683, Paradigm Studio 60, Dali Lektor 6). After asking me what setup do I have, the salesman told me that if I were going to upgrade to high end speakers and were going to keep my Yamaha AVR, I would not be satisfy because they would show the lack of details produce by my AVR, speacially a Yamaha. Unlike Marantz or Cambridge, he stated that Yamaha are not good "sonic" amp, that you pay more for the DSP than the audio quality itself.

He then suggested me to upgrade my amp first, and then speakers. Salesmen BS or is it the truth?

Do you guys share the same opinion?

 

[jinjuku]

I would get an amp to drive something like the Paradigm 60's. You don't need a super expensive amp either. Is this for a stereo setup?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

It is some BS. There is not a "sonic difference" between amps and AVRs for the most part. If you have enough power and the amp/AVR will handle the presented load, it should all sound the same.

I have 10 bucks saying that this dealer doesn't carry Yamaha so you bet...the Marantz, that he does carry is going to work much better...

That being said, the bigger paradigms do like alot of power but adding a amp to the Pioneer is the way to go about it.

I have driven my 100's with an AVR, an Emo amp, a pro amp and a Rotel. The 3 amps all sounded the same, the AVR didn't have enough balls to push the 100's very hard. Keep in mind, my room is huge (~8,000 cubic ft).

Try to drive them with just the AVR first and see how it works, add an external amp if you need more power after that.

 

[oppman99]

Tough question to answer. I agree with the post above that I would also go with an external amp for something like Studio 60's. In my personal experience I have found external amps can improve the sound of many speakers. To give an example, I have a set of old (10-15+ yrs) Mitsubishi towers that I got free and use for outdoor parties. Never thought much of them hooked up to a yamaha AVR but connected them to an Emotiva XPA-2 and was really impressed with the improvement in sound quality. I'm not saying it turned them into high end speakers, but the added power was very apparent. Clarity was better and so were the dynamics. Since they were being used outdoors, the volume was cranked up. I think most people will agree that speakers have the biggest impact (other than room interaction) on sound quality.

 

[jeanseb]

I would get an amp to drive something like the Paradigm 60's. You don't need a super expensive amp either. Is this for a stereo setup?

Home theater, But I'm a music fan too, so I would say 50/50.

It is some BS. There is not a "sonic difference" between amps and AVRs for the most part. If you have enough power and the amp/AVR will handle the presented load, it should all sound the same.

I have 10 bucks saying that this dealer doesn't carry Yamaha so you bet...the Marantz, that he does carry is going to work much better...

That being said, the bigger paradigms do like alot of power but adding a amp to the Pioneer is the way to go about it.

I have driven my 100's with an AVR, an Emo amp, a pro amp and a Rotel. The 3 amps all sounded the same, the AVR didn't have enough balls to push the 100's very hard. Keep in mind, my room is huge (~8,000 cubic ft).

Try to drive them with just the AVR first and see how it works, add an external amp if you need more power after that.

I tought is was BS too. He also told me that a 3,000$ Sony DVD player will give me better picture and sound than my PS3(W/Blu-Ray full HD picture and PCM uncompressed)... He then showed me a demo and I was like: hmmmmmmm no.

So you would go for speakers first, AMP later if needed?

Thanks!

P.S.: Nice HT, Must be ROCCCKKNNNN'!!

 

[radridd]

ParadigmDawg

Love the "Back In Black" look of your setup. VERY NICE!

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Take in a $400 OPPO (or are they $500?)and then laugh at his $3,000 Sony...

Always speakers first.

Home theater, But I'm a music fan too, so I would say 50/50.



I tought is was BS too. He also told me that a 3,000$ Sony DVD player will give me better picture and sound than my PS3(W/Blu-Ray full HD picture and PCM uncompressed)... He then showed me a demo and I was like: hmmmmmmm no.

So you would go for speakers first, AMP later if needed?

Thanks!

P.S.: Nice HT, Must be ROCCCKKNNNN'!!

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Thanks, not trying to steal the OP's thread.

But...while I'm at it, let me show my real amp vs. the EMO in the other picture. I am not an EMO fan.

ParadigmDawg

Love the "Back In Black" look of your setup. VERY NICE!

 

[cfrizz]

If your receiver has preouts, (Just checked it does) then get a separate amplifier. I am a big believer in separate amplification. I had a receiver powering my speakers & it was no contest once I hooked up a Parasound 1500A 205wpc 2 channel amp.

It's not just about it being loud it's about greater clarity across the board & more headroom. Most receivers aren't putting out the kind of power that they say they are.

So before you run out & upgrade your speakers, I agree with the salesman & get a separate amp to see how good your current speakers can sound.

You can get good bang for the buck if you purchase a used amp from Audiogon.

 

[Gatomalo]

Deal or no deal?

Hey fellas, My local dealer is putting together 2 paradigm studio 100 v.5, cc590 v.5, sub 12 v.5 and a pioneer sc27 for $6000 total. I don't know exactly the retail cost on some of these items, I do know that the speakers are 3 mo. old demos, and the receiver is brand new! Is this a good deal? i have till Mon, 12/04, to decide. What do you guys think?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Now that is what I call hijacking a thread

You should probably start a new one on this. There is a v.5 price list on here somewhere, I will see if I can find it. I would also dump that sub for a better one.

Hey fellas, My local dealer is putting together 2 paradigm studio 100 v.5, cc590 v.5, sub 12 v.5 and a pioneer sc27 for $6000 total. I don't know exactly the retail cost on some of these items, I do know that the speakers are 3 mo. old demos, and the receiver is brand new! Is this a good deal? i have till Mon, 12/04, to decide. What do you guys think?

 

[jeanseb]

Sorry guys but I'm kindda lost here. Some say speakers, some AMP... I don't know what to do!

 

[Gatomalo]

Deal or no Deal

I meant 12/14.

 

[Gatomalo]

Sub?

How about the svs ultra 13 sub?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Ok, lets just ruin the jeanseb thread.

Yes, get the Ultra.

Here is a MSRP list, street should be cheaper. For a package, you should get 20% or so knocked off the top, more since they are demos.
http://www.cepro.com/article/paradigms_studio_v5_speaker_line_gets_facelift_refinements/

Sorry jeanseb ...once again speakers first then look at amps if needed. Everyone else is going to tell you that besides cfrizz and she's a women....

J/K cfrizz...I mean you really are a women but you know your stuff....

How about the svs ultra 13 sub?

 

[JerryLove]

So I just came back from the A/V store to look for new speakers (B&W 683, Paradigm Studio 60, Dali Lektor 6). After asking me what setup do I have, the salesman told me that if I were going to upgrade to high end speakers and were going to keep my Yamaha AVR, I would not be satisfy because they would show the lack of details produce by my AVR, speacially a Yamaha. Unlike Marantz or Cambridge, he stated that Yamaha are not good "sonic" amp, that you pay more for the DSP than the audio quality itself.

Get the speakers you like. If you find yourself "unsatisfied", then grab something like http://www.emotiva.com/upa2.shtm or http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-812 or, if you are *really* unsatisfied http://www.emotiva.com/xpa2.shtm

 

[skers_54]

One more for speakers first. I ran my Kappa Perfect sub off an Onkyo stereo receiver until I saved enough for an amp. Sounded the same until I tried U-571 (loud!).

 

[jeanseb]

Ok, lets just ruin the jeanseb thread.

Sorry jeanseb ...once again speakers first then look at amps if needed. Everyone else is going to tell you that besides cfrizz and she's a women....

J/K cfrizz...I mean you really are a women but you know your stuff....

Good! I appreciate that

Paradigm over Energy? or Klipsch? or Dali?

Get the speakers you like. If you find yourself "unsatisfied", then grab something like http://www.emotiva.com/upa2.shtm or http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-812 or, if you are *really* unsatisfied http://www.emotiva.com/xpa2.shtm

Thanks Jerry. I'm very unecertain about Emotiva because of their price... Is the sound quality can be as good as a Marantz MM8003 for instance?

BTW I'm a big fan of your avatar pic! Rock and Roll!

One more for speakers first. I ran my Kappa Perfect sub off an Onkyo stereo receiver until I saved enough for an amp. Sounded the same until I tried U-571 (loud!).

Thanks!

 

[oppman99]

Paradigm over Energy? or Klipsch? or Dali?

I'm very unecertain about Emotiva because of their price... Is the sound quality can be as good as a Marantz MM8003 for instance?

Picking a speaker involves a number of variables. Musical preference, space, budget ect. I would never go lower than the Studio line for Paradigm, but that is just an opinion. Didn't care for Energy when I auditioned them. Used to have Klipsch and I'm not sure why I ever bought them but some people love them. Haven't had a chance to listen to Dali, but I've heard good things.

Why are you worried about Emotiva because of price? You've already given an example where you preferred a less expensive piece of equipment. Just because your PS3 was less expensive than the $3000 player your dealer showed you didn't mean it was junk. I've had very good experiences with Emotiva. Yes, you can find better equipment from other manufacturers. Just expect to pay a lot more.

 

[jeanseb]

Take in a $400 OPPO (or are they $500?)and then laugh at his $3,000 Sony...

Always speakers first.

Thinking about it, that salesman is FoS. He also told me (while watching a shitty picture on a 6k$ McIntosh DVD player) that Blu-Ray discs where increasing about 6x the pixels number, but the picture wasn't necessarily better.

BTW this is a saleman selling 20,000$+ McIntosh product. Not so different than the kids at Best Buy selling Bose Acoutismass system...