Ukraine – Russia … not more of the last thread

MaxInValrico

MaxInValrico

Senior Audioholic
Here's an article about the purges that appear to be occurring in Putin's inner circle. What's interesting is that the person being interviewed for the article states that Sergey (Sergei) Shoigu is one of only 3-4 people that Putin trusts, but there has been a lot of speculation about his status as of late (second link below).

>>>There have been a lot of reports in the Western press that Putin is isolated now, whether this is because he’s been in power so long or because he doesn’t meet with many people owing to the pandemic. Do you have a sense of whether those types of reports are accurate? And do you have a sense of who Putin does talk to and what type of inner circle he has now? It feels like maybe people had a better idea of who was in his circle ten years ago.

Yeah. That’s true, and there is a reason for that. Ten years ago, Putin listened to at least several dozen different kinds of people. It might have been a very strange collection of characters: at one point, it was a film director with crazy ideas about the Russian imperial past. And, at another point, it was a journalist who was a big fan of Pinochet. There were some priests. So it was a multitude of people, but now it looks like, starting in 2016, 2017, this circle has been getting smaller and smaller. And what I’m getting from my sources is that, these days, Putin listens to only three or four people. There is Minister of Defense Sergey Shoigu, whom he trusts, and that is why Shoigu has played the main role in this invasion. There is Nikolai Patrushev, his head of the Security Council, and one of his oldest friends, who’s still close to him and was his successor as the director of the F.S.B. And probably one or two other friends from St. Petersburg, but that’s about it.<<<



Purges are a Russian tradition.
 
SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
For what it's worth the Azov battalions are quite "controversial". They have been accused of much in the past.


Granted some will cite this as Russian propaganda coming from the Greeks who share a common bond through the Orthodox church.

Generally a rule of thumb, if you walk around with SS lightening bolts as one of your symbols, you should be viewed with suspicion. Given the number of Ukrainians(Cossacks included) that supported the Germans in the war and their history of Anti-Semitism, those symbols should be seen no where.

This current war is one act in a long play. Many things will emerge in the aftermath that will be uncomfortable for many. As brave as he is, Zelensky is not the virgin Mary. Before this war started, he had warts, especially his connections to Igor Kolomoisky and mentions in the Pandora Papers. Things are never as clear as our media would like us to believe.

 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
Considering the atrocities Ukraine suffered from the Nazis during WW2, and that people in Ukraine remember it all too well, my first response to your question would be, "That's probably fake news." And I would next ask, "Where did you see that photo?" Is the source reliable? Newsweek is no longer a reliable source.

@Replicant 7 and @Trell
Your previous posts on this thread can easily become the start of another ugly name-calling contest. Don't let it go there.
That's why I directed my post towards you, @Swerd, you are knowledgeable of world affairs. My post was a honest post because it's all over the web, I didn't know if was real or not that's why I asked you. As for Trell, he made it a personal attack on me. He seems to use discord.
 
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D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
That's why I directed my post towards you, @Swerd, you are knowledgeable of world affairs. My post was a honest post because it's all over the web, I didn't know it was real or not that's why I asked you. As for Trell, he made it a personal attack on me. He seems to use discord.
Just put him on your ignore list that way you don't get sucked in. Everyone could see you were asking an honest question to @Swerd not trying to spread disinformation.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
Just put him on your ignore list that way you don't get sucked in. Everyone could see you were asking an honest question to @Swerd not trying to spread disinformation.
Thanks Dan, really was just asking honest question, and was directed at Swerd. Ask him well because Swerd is very knowledgeable with matter like this, Only asked because I really didn't know if it's fake news.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Thanks Dan, really was just asking honest question, and was directed at Swerd. Ask him well because Swerd is very knowledgeable with matter like this, Only asked because I really didn't know if it's fake news.
Whenever I've had a question about Covid or world news I cant get an answer too I've always enjoyed going to @Swerd as well. He has been a great anchor for those type of threads. Knowledgeable but doesn't get into the back and forth he treats everyone respectfully.

I will admit I've been part of that problem with the back and forth as well at times.

I've just learned to hit the ignore button and stop getting dragged into it especially on threads like these which are more important then a regular steam vent thread
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Thanks Dan, really was just asking honest question, and was directed at Swerd. Ask him well because Swerd is very knowledgeable with matter like this, Only asked because I really didn't know if it's fake news.
Another good person to go to is @SithZedi I've always found him to be very helpful and informative.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
That's why I directed my post towards you, @Swerd, you are knowledgeable of world affairs. My post was a honest post because it's all over the web, I didn't know it was real or not that's why I asked you. As for Trell, he made it a personal attack on me. He seems to use discord.
I'm no more knowledgeable of world affairs than others are here. But I do try to keep facts separated from strong attitudes, opinions, or plain exaggerations. I know plenty more about the bio-medical sciences, but I try to use the same approach on the Covid-19 thread as I do here.

The last thread on Russia - Ukraine succumbed to a pissing contest among several posters. That led the AH moderators to lock it. I didn't like seeing that happen, and I don't want to see it happen here, again.

Just a suggestion: When you used the words "just asking", you may not have meant to provoke anyone. But others can & do take it as provocative. Right-wingers like Tucker Carlson, and his imitators, have repeated those exact words when they want to disguise deliberate provocations as being merely innocent questions. "Just asking" has become a loaded phrase. They've become fighting words to some, such as our friend @Trell . If you really don't intend to provoke people, there are other good ways to ask questions without saying the words "just asking".
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
I'm no more knowledgeable of world affairs than others are here. But I do try to keep facts separated from strong attitudes, opinions, or plain exaggerations. I know plenty more about the bio-medical sciences, but I try to use the same approach on the Covid-19 thread as I do here.

The last thread on Russia - Ukraine succumbed to a pissing contest among several posters. That led the AH moderators to lock it. I didn't like seeing that happen, and I don't want to see it happen here, again.

Just a suggestion: When you used the words "just asking", you may not have meant to provoke anyone. But others can & do take it as provocative. Right-wingers like Tucker Carlson, and his imitators, have repeated those exact words when they want to disguise deliberate provocations as being merely innocent questions. "Just asking" has become a loaded phrase, fighting words to some. If you really don't intend to provoke people, there are other ways to ask questions without saying the words "just asking".
Thanks, get it now. I try not to take out of context of any post. But to my defense, he did use (swallow) and or imply, which is use of discord. As for Tucker, :rolleyes: yeah don't care for that talking head.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Several EU members that are not members of NATO are rethinking their position and possibly some of them will finally join. Is this another miscalculation by Putin?

The leader of the Swedish Conservative wrote a few days ago an opinion piece that if the centre right wins the next general elections he will apply for NATO membership, even if the Socialdemocrats are against membership. Finland as well appears to be on the cusp on a decision.

 
Dan

Dan

Audioholic Chief
There is a little something to the Ukraine Nazi thing that I recall. Emphasis on the little. This was in WW2 certainly not after. Basically as I remember there was a small minority of Ukrainians who sided with Hitler because they didn’t like Stalin or communism. My enemy’s enemy is my friend and so forth. I don’t think these were very large numbers. Some of these Ukrainians were sent to France and faced off against the Americans and British in Normandy with limited effectiveness. Many were happy to surrender. But overall the worst of the fighting in WW2 on the eastern front was in south eastern Soviet Union and Ukraine suffered terribly. Vastly more Ukrainians fought for Stalin than against him. Civilians were slaughtered wholesale. I’d research the numbers more precisely but work is beckoning. But for Putin or Faux need to make a big issue of this, is blowing it way out of proportion. As for the present I know nothing of those pictures but neoNazis are in most European countries as well as here.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
For what it's worth the Azov battalions are quite "controversial". They have been accused of much in the past.


Granted some will cite this as Russian propaganda coming from the Greeks who share a common bond through the Orthodox church.

Generally a rule of thumb, if you walk around with SS lightening bolts as one of your symbols, you should be viewed with suspicion. Given the number of Ukrainians(Cossacks included) that supported the Germans in the war and their history of Anti-Semitism, those symbols should be seen no where.

This current war is one act in a long play. Many things will emerge in the aftermath that will be uncomfortable for many. As brave as he is, Zelensky is not the virgin Mary. Before this war started, he had warts, especially his connections to Igor Kolomoisky and mentions in the Pandora Papers. Things are never as clear as our media would like us to believe.

Should the US jump out of defending Ukraine then? Maybe there's a reason this info is being left out (ie defending Ukraine is still better than the alternative).
 
Dan

Dan

Audioholic Chief
A quick wiki search shows that about 4.5 million Ukrainians fought in the red army and another 250,000 were partisans behind the lines. Perhaps 200,000 fought for the Nazis some eastern front and some western from. An unknown number of there were conscripts rather than volunteers.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
For what it's worth the Azov battalions are quite "controversial". They have been accused of much in the past.

With regards to the guy who claims the fascists woud kill him if he tried to leave the city, here's the the entire written content at the greekcitytimes.com website:

>>>Greek in Mariupol: “The fascist Ukrainians would kill me, they don’t let us leave the city” (VIDEO)

With Russian forces besieging Mariupol, in which 120,000+ ethnic Greeks live, SKAI news spoke with a Mr Kiouranas who lives in the city and exposed that Ukrainian “fascists” are killing people for trying to leave the city.

When asked by SKAI news if he planned to leave the city, Kiouranas responded “how can I leave? When you try to leave you run the risk of running into a patrol of the Ukrainian fascists, the Azov Battalion.”

“They would kill me and are responsible for everything,” he added.<<<

Perhaps I missed it, but I do not see any evidence to support the assertions by the one guy that was interviewed (I watched the video but I couldn't understand what they were saying). I'm not saying his allegations have been proven false, but a statement by one person isn't conclusive.


The rest of the article appears to be rehashed or copied from other news outlets. For example, here's a quote from the greekcitytimes.com article:

>>>The battalion has drawn far-right volunteers from abroad, such as Mikael Skillt, a 37-year-old Swede, trained as a sniper in the Swedish army, who described himself as an “ethnic nationalist” and fights on the front line with the battalion.<<<

This is directly copied from the 2014 article in The Guardian, but they didn't make it clear it was copied, and they didn't bother to mention that Mr. Skillt now claims he has renounced his political views (according to a 2021 article by vice.com, link below). They also failed to mention that many of the extremists have reportedly sided with Russia. This seems like incredibly sloppy reporting to me.

>>>“There is no arguing about [the extremist ideology], because you can see the pictures of guys with swastikas,” said Skillt, who has since renounced his own extremist politics. . . .

But not all the international right-wing extremist scene sided with Azov – far from it. The war in Ukraine divided the loyalties of the global far-right, with some supporting the Ukrainian side, backing them as fellow nationalists repelling Russian aggression, while others sided with Russia, motivated in part by a notion of Russian President Vladimir Putin as a staunch defender of a white traditionalist Europe.

“The right-wingers of Europe… are divided into two camps, pro-Russian, and pro-Ukrainian,” said Skillt. “The pro-Russian side would be the dominant side.”

Ironically, given the Kremlin’s attempts to use Azov’s extremist ideology to smear the Ukrainian forces as a whole, white supremacist foreign fighters also received training and fought for the pro-Russian separatists through groups like the Russian Imperial Movement (RIM), an ultranationalist organisation which claims to be fighting for the “predominance of the white race.<<<


The Azov Regiment certainly appears to be bad news, but I have a hard time seeing how it is that important to the overall situation in Ukraine other than as a propaganda tool.

Here's a snip from a more recent vice.com article:

>>>Meanwhile, Azov has been a boon to Russian propaganda, which has sought to smear Ukrainian forces as a whole as right-wing extremists. “Had there not been an Azov, Russia would have invented it,” said Rękawek, adding that the Kremlin PR tactic was particularly hypocritical, given that far-right foreign fighters have also volunteered on the pro-Russian side of the conflict.<<<


According to wiki: "In 2017, the size of the regiment was estimated at more than 2,500 members, but by 2022, it was estimated to be 900 members."


The Ukrainian government deserves criticism for integrating them into the national guard, but that hardly justifies bombing cities and killing civilians all across Ukraine.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
I've become somewhat addicted to the OSINT sources on twitter. I take it with a grain of salt, but quite a bit of it appears to be accurate, well researched, and often contrary to news reports.

Here's an example of a post by a guy who has been looking into reports that various Chechen fighters were killed in Ukraine:


As you can see, he's proven that a lot of the reports concerning Chechens being killed in Ukraine have been false.

On the other hand, he did confirm that 8 Russian Colonels have been killed:


Based on this video he posted, at least some Americans are in Ukraine fighting:


This is merely one example of an OSINT source, of course.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Here's a twitter account of a guy who claims to be an American fighting in Ukraine (this is apparently the same guy who made the video that was re-posted by the OSINT guy in my prior post). I say "claims" because I don't have any independent verification of his claims, but his posts and videos certainly appear to be legit

https://twitter.com/jmvasquez1974

He claims to have more video from combat that he will post:


For the most part I don't have any major issues with the mainstream media, but there is a lot more info out there that is more detailed.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
It appears that the Russians are taking a beating, I'm happy to see.

>>>
Roughly 7,000 to 15,000 Russian troops have been killed in four weeks of fighting in Ukraine, a senior NATO military official told The Washington Post on Wednesday.

The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity under NATO ground rules, said the estimate was based on several factors, including information from Ukrainian officials, what the Russian side has released and open sources.

For comparison, the entire 20-year U.S. war in Afghanistan resulted in 2,461 American fatalities, according to Pentagon figures. Russia lost about 15,000 troops in Afghanistan in the 1980s, according to the Associated Press, making Moscow’s potential losses in Ukraine n just one month far more costly.

NATO estimates that, in total, 30,000 to 40,000 Russian troops have been killed, wounded or taken prisoner in Ukraine [bold added]— an estimate based on the assumption that for every soldier killed, three are wounded, the official added.

Death tolls have been hard for independent observers to verify during the conflict, with the fog of war making solid information difficult to obtain and the ferocity of the conflict impeding efforts to count the dead. Earlier this month, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said 1,300 members of the Ukrainian forces have been killed, but The Washington Post has been unable to verify that figure. Russia has not updated its official figure of 498 dead and 1,597 wounded since announcing it one week into the invasion.
...
<<<

Not to mention how many are wounded enough to be out of the war.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Several EU members that are not members of NATO are rethinking their position and possibly some of them will finally join. Is this another miscalculation by Putin?

The leader of the Swedish Conservative wrote a few days ago an opinion piece that if the centre right wins the next general elections he will apply for NATO membership, even if the Socialdemocrats are against membership. Finland as well appears to be on the cusp on a decision.

It looks like Putin will inadvertently pull off the remarkable dual accomplishments of uniting western Europe against Russia while simultaneously demonstrating that the Russian military is surprisingly inept.
 
SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
Should the US jump out of defending Ukraine then? Maybe there's a reason this info is being left out (ie defending Ukraine is still better than the alternative).
Personally, in my opinion, we do everything we can to defend Ukraine but without escalating the conflict into a wider war. Send supplies yes but secretly(no media). No troops, aircraft or imposing a 'no fly zone'. Those things would be considered a declaration of war by Putin. I would not put it past Putin to use a 'tactical' nuke somewhere in the Ukraine. I think politicians on both sides have forgotten what was well known in the 1960s as to what happens after a nuclear blast. They are being too cavalier with their threats.

To remind myself I watched this clip when this war started that served as a reminder of the aftermath of such an event. It provides some perspective.

 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I understand this nuke business. One only has to see a film from Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
But, what do you do with a madman who will and could threaten the use of nukes while taking over other countries. Let him?

Is everyone in the chain of that madman willing to push the button as a first strike?
 

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