Ukraine – Russia … not more of the last thread

[Mr._Clark]

I understand this nuke business. One only has to see a film from Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
But, what do you do with a madman who will and could threaten the use of nukes while taking over other countries. Let him?

Is everyone in the chain of that madman willing to push the button as a first strike?

That’s the big quandary. Does the rest of the world let him continue to invade countries for fear that he will use nukes if other countries intervene? Where does it end? (Just rhetorical questions).

 

[GO-NAD!]

Here's a Twitter thread explaining how the government change in Ukraine in 2014 was not a "coup" against Yanukovych, although there are still plenty of people insisting that it was.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507123383217147910

 

[SithZedi]

Here's a Twitter thread explaining how the government change in Ukraine in 2014 was not a "coup" against Yanukovych, although there are still plenty of people insisting that it was.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507123383217147910

Especially Putin. Depending on whether one agrees or not with the "coup" and I lean more to the side that Yanuk. should have been replaced, there was a huge issue with the optics.

The West especially the US, was saying it was not manipulating events at the time. Behind the scenes, we certainly were pushing for Yanuk. to be replaced. You had US government officials actively encouraging the protestors. One of our most prominent US Senators and former candidate for president, McCain was there in December.

Senator McCain tells protesters 'Ukraine will make Europe better'

Senator John Mccain told thousands of Ukrainian protesters camped on Kiev's main square on Sunday that Ukraine's destiny lay in Europe and that it would Europe better.

www.reuters.com

This article relates to the famous call where Nuland says "f... the EU". Nuland recently resurfaced in that famous exchange in the Senate admitting to Sen. Rubio that their were biolabs in the Ukr.

‘Fuck the EU’: US diplomat Victoria Nuland's phonecall leaked - video

The assistant US secretary of state, Victoria Nuland, has apologised after her phone conversation about the political crisis in Ukraine was leaked on the internet

www.theguardian.com

So we were caught lying because the US was involved in deciding who should be the “pick” for prime minister of a foreign country. The optics were very bad despite the US getting what we wanted..

 

[GO-NAD!]

Here is a very interesting twitter thread on why the Russian military is performing so abysmally. A fascinating read and not a very flattering portrait of Russian military culture.

Russian military incompetence has been well exposed over the last month, but that Twitter thread was astounding. How nihilistic can they be?

 

[highfigh]

Thanks Dan, really was just asking honest question, and was directed at Swerd. Ask him well because Swerd is very knowledgeable with matter like this, Only asked because I really didn't know if it's fake news.

It's best to save something like that for later if it isn't known to be true. With enough searching, it's usually possible to find out for sure. Or, put a disclaimer in the post.

 

[Mikado463]

back to the 'front' !

Ukraine Blocks Trans Women Refugees: "They Are Men, Must Go Back & Fight" | ZeroHedge

 

[highfigh]

If you really don't intend to provoke people, there are other good ways to ask questions without saying the words "just asking".

But isn't being triggered by that simple pair of words the problem of the ones who see it as 'provocative'? People frequently infer when nothing may have been implied and it's one of the main reasons for threads being closed.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Especially Putin. Depending on whether one agrees or not with the "coup" and I lean more to the side that Yanuk. should have been replaced, there was a huge issue with the optics.

The West especially the US, was saying it was not manipulating events at the time. Behind the scenes, we certainly were pushing for Yanuk. to be replaced. You had US government officials actively encouraging the protestors. One of our most prominent US Senators and former candidate for president, McCain was there in December.

Senator McCain tells protesters 'Ukraine will make Europe better'

Senator John Mccain told thousands of Ukrainian protesters camped on Kiev's main square on Sunday that Ukraine's destiny lay in Europe and that it would Europe better.

www.reuters.com

This article relates to the famous call where Nuland says "f... the EU". Nuland recently resurfaced in that famous exchange in the Senate admitting to Sen. Rubio that their were biolabs in the Ukr.

‘Fuck the EU’: US diplomat Victoria Nuland's phonecall leaked - video

The assistant US secretary of state, Victoria Nuland, has apologised after her phone conversation about the political crisis in Ukraine was leaked on the internet

www.theguardian.com

So we were caught lying because the US was involved in deciding who should be the “pick” for prime minister of a foreign country. The optics were very bad despite the US getting what we wanted..

There's a world of difference between US officials encouraging protestors and actively engineering or steering a revolt. It discounts the fact that the Ukrainian people have agency in their own actions and fate.

And, the "biolab" nonsense has been debunked and I don't understand why we seem to have to do it continuously.
Theory About U.S.-Funded Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine Is Unfounded - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

The State Department said Ms. Nuland was referring to Ukrainian diagnostic and biodefense laboratories during her testimony, which are different from biological weapons facilities. Rather, these biodefense laboratories counter biological threats throughout the country, the department said.

Mr. Rubio made the same clarification in another congressional hearing on Thursday, noting that “there’s a difference between a bioweapons facility and one that’s doing research.”

 

[highfigh]

It looks like Putin will inadvertently pull off the remarkable dual accomplishments of uniting western Europe against Russia while simultaneously demonstrating that the Russian military is surprisingly inept.

The big problem is that Russia has nukes and it has always been the main deterrent WRT going to war with them.

It's time for the World to force Russia to give up the nukes- bluff or not, Russia needs a new leader and the World needs to make sure they don't go this far again. Having nukes as detente is one thing, but having them and being an aggressor can't be tolerated. Iran and North Korea need to be stopped, too.

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/russia-threatens-universal-nuclear-war-if-nato-peacekeepers-enter-ukraine/news-story/d1fb2e6d16d85dca0cb7283ee934f034

 

[SithZedi]

There's a world of difference between US officials encouraging protestors and actively engineering or steering a revolt. It discounts the fact that the Ukrainian people have agency in their own actions and fate.

And, the "biolab" nonsense has been debunked and I don't understand why we seem to have to do it continuously.
Theory About U.S.-Funded Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine Is Unfounded - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Not disagreeing with you on the Ukrainian people deciding for themselves. I was focused on the optics which are meaningful, especially when you are dealing on very sensitive grounds.

On Nuland, everyone seems to be conflating "biolabs" with "bioweapons labs" to score points. I wrote biolabs or biological laboratories, as did the NY Times. She said, "she is concerned that Russian troops will get their hands on the research materials." That means test tubes filled with nasty things we don't want released.

I am not so much focused on why there were there. There seem to be legitimate reasons to be via previous treaties. My concern is why were the contents and research moved or destroyed prior to the invasion? There should have been strict protocols in place to do so given the situation before the invasion.

It's just another think to put on the post war pile of "what have we learned from this" and who is to blame.

 

[Replicant 7]

But isn't being triggered by that simple pair of words the problem of the ones who see it as 'provocative'? People frequently infer when nothing may have been implied and it's one of the main reasons for threads being closed.

I've used, (just asking) on many threads. Speaking for me, I use that as umm when I'm not sure of something. Now if one chooses to take (just asking) out of context that's on them. But to imply, then use discord is to inject strife or conflict.

 

[Mikado463]

I've used, (just asking) on many threads. Speaking for me, I use that as umm when I'm not sure of something. Now if one chooses to take (just asking) out of context that's on them. But to imply, then use discord is to inject strife or conflict.

point taken, afterall this is the 'Steam Vent' , 'Just sayin' .........

 

[Mr._Clark]

The founder of Bellingcat has investigated numerous Russian war crimes, and he's very familiar with the Russian disinformation playbook. The Russian disinformation (e.g. alleged false flags) seems to follow fairly predictable/recognizable patterns.

I'm not saying that all information on the other side is 100% accurate, but that does not absolve Putin.

Bellingcat founder: Don’t let Putin’s disinformation distract from his war crimes

Plentiful evidence of Russian violations — now available publicly — is only valuable if perpetrators are held to account

www.ft.com

 

[Swerd]

@Mr._Clark

Thanks for your previous post about Open Source Intelligence (OSINT). It opened my eyes to what is a whole new subject. This morning in the Washington Post, I noticed a good intro to the subject of OSINT. After seeing your post, I made sure to read it all.

The rise of the Twitter spies by Pranshu Verma

12ft

 

[GO-NAD!]

I've used, (just asking) on many threads. Speaking for me, I use that as umm when I'm not sure of something. Now if one chooses to take (just asking) out of context that's on them. But to imply, then use discord is to inject strife or conflict.

You may be just honestly asking, but the phrase has been used and abused so often by people like Carlson, that it has become a dog whistle.

 

[Replicant 7]

The big problem is that Russia has nukes and it has always been the main deterrent WRT going to war with them.

It's time for the World to force Russia to give up the nukes- bluff or not, Russia needs a new leader and the World needs to make sure they don't go this far again. Having nukes as detente is one thing, but having them and being an aggressor can't be tolerated. Iran and North Korea need to be stopped, too.

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/russia-threatens-universal-nuclear-war-if-nato-peacekeepers-enter-ukraine/news-story/d1fb2e6d16d85dca0cb7283ee934f034

Well stated! Puttinhead needs to be stopped! He is Pure evil! Bombing hospitals, killing children and women innocent civilians. But he has nuclear weapons more than any one on the planet. Can he be stopped without wiping out the human race?

 

[GO-NAD!]

Not disagreeing with you on the Ukrainian people deciding for themselves. I was focused on the optics which are meaningful, especially when you are dealing on very sensitive grounds.

On Nuland, everyone seems to be conflating "biolabs" with "bioweapons labs" to score points. I wrote biolabs or biological laboratories, as did the NY Times. She said, "she is concerned that Russian troops will get their hands on the research materials." That means test tubes filled with nasty things we don't want released.

I am not so much focused on why there were there. There seem to be legitimate reasons to be via previous treaties. My concern is why were the contents and research moved or destroyed prior to the invasion? There should have been strict protocols in place to do so given the situation before the invasion.

It's just another think to put on the post war pile of "what have we learned from this" and who is to blame.

My understanding of the labs' purpose was researching defensive measures against such weapons. We wouldn't want the Russians to get their hands on the research material, lest they develop countermeasures to the countermeasures.

 

[Replicant 7]

You may be just honestly asking, but the phrase has been used and abused by so often by people like Carlson, that it has become a dog whistle.

Didn't know that, thanks for the heads up.

 

[Danzilla31]

You may be just honestly asking, but the phrase has been used and abused so often by people like Carlson, that it has become a dog whistle.

He said he didn't know heck I didn't know that because I can't stand watching Tucker

The amount of stuff that can trigger people these days is impossible to keep up with but
he said he understands 3 times since and been more then agreeable about it

So how about we all drop it before it gets blown up again and the thread runs the risk of derailing?

 

[highfigh]

Well stated! Puttinhead needs to be stopped! He is Pure evil! Bombing hospitals, killing children and women innocent civilians. But he has nuclear weapons more than any one on the planet. Can he be stopped without wiping out the human race?

If he loses the support of the higher ups in the Russian military, yes. All we can hope for is that they have cooler heads and maybe, that they have become as tired of the idea that the West is the enemy as we are.