UFO's

[krabapple]

What did/do the aliens, if there are any, look like?

Many contemporary scientists believe we are those very aliens...or crossbreeds of them with the native earthlings.

*Many" contemporary scientists believe this? I'm a scientist, and hadn't heard this. Was there a poll I missed?

It's interesting that for hundreds of thousands of years, humans ever so slowly evolved, being at best hunters and gatherers. Then rather suddenly (about 12,000 years ago), and without antecedents, humankind advanced virtually over-night and invented metalurgy, complex mathematics, astronomy (and navigation), etc.

And alien visitation seems among the more reasonable explanations for this supposed fact?

There is a wealth of studies and books out there that are really interesting and thought provoking. What got me interested was a book I read a long time ago, called Chariots of the Gods, by Erich Von Daniken...still a good read.

..written by a long-debunked charlatan...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniken

There are researchers of all stripes, archaeologists, biologists, genetic scientists, astronomers, etc, that are currently working on this very problem.

Well, anyone can call themselves a 'researcher' I guess.

Explorers are still spending millions of bucks looking for Atlantis, as some pre-conceived evidence of extra-terrestrial visitation.

Yes, it must be a good living...for some explorers.

Some grad student could probably write a decent thesis comparing the belief systems of believers in UFOs and 'high-end' audio....

 

[majorloser]

*Many" contemporary scientists believe this? I'm a scientist, and hadn't heard this. Was there a poll I missed?

I'm not a scientist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express!

RJ was abducted by aliens.

 

[mustang_steve]

Of course it did...how the heck else did hotness like Jessica Alba happen? it had to be an alien experiment....create super hot creature, send it to earth, and see how long it takes for her to control the minds of every red-blooded male on the planet.

 

[Tomorrow]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniken[/url]

Well, anyone can call themselves a 'researcher' I guess.

I guess anyone can call themselves a 'scientist', too. And what principled scientist wouldn't use a definitive source like wikipedia...a website that any old self-proclaimed anything can go in and edit to their heart's content? It's written largely by lay people.

And by the way krabbie, I wasn't presenting anything as factual. I suggest only that there are others that think that way, and further, that Chariots of the Gods is an interesting read, whether you agree with it or not.

And here I always thought that 'scientists' usually liked to be well versed in all sides of an arguement. My bad.

 

[Tomorrow]

I'm not a scientist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express!

RJ was abducted by aliens.

Naanoo, naanoo.

 

[j_garcia]

The moon was out and quite visible at the same time...not nickle size either, but rather large as it is quite close right now since it is summer.

I read Chariots of the Gods in high school and I thought it was an interesting book. Havent seen any aliens, but I won't go so far as to say I think we are the only sentient beings in the universe. I also don't believe Star Trek...

 

[krabapple]

I guess anyone can call themselves a 'scientist', too.

Well, it helps to have a degree...in a science...and to have done some peer-reviewed scientific work. It's no guarantee, but it helps. PM me if you want to see my credentials.

And what principled scientist wouldn't use a definitive source like wikipedia...a website that any old self-proclaimed anything can go in and edit to their heart's content? It's written largely by lay people.

Yes, and largely self-correcting, too. Which is a virtue, as it is for science. But do you think I would point you to a wiki that I *didn't* find the be correct? You don't have to believe the wiki; go look up some other sources, like the ones the wiki points to. Meanwhile, here's another takedown of that fraud, also with refs.

http://skepdic.com/vondanik.html

And by the way krabbie, I wasn't presenting anything as factual. I suggest only that there are others that think that way, and further, that Chariots of the Gods is an interesting read, whether you agree with it or not.

Oh, I've never doubted there are 'others' who 'think that way'. Communities of kooky belief seem to be an eternal plague on humanity. Nor am I the first to note it. There's a fine book titled 'Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds', that was written in *1841*. Highly recommended. I think Barnes & Noble tends to have it stock for a few bucks.

Now, you said there were *many scientists*, not just 'others', who think that way...which is something else. You are saying that many people who by profession practice the scientific method of truth-finding, believe the sort of thing that the von Danikens of the world claim, about alien interbreeding. I doubt it, really.

And here I always thought that 'scientists' usually liked to be well versed in all sides of an arguement. My bad.

Gee, how do you *know* I'm, not well-versed in von Daniken's flimflammery, 'budzy'? As it happens, I eagerly devoured 'Chariots' and the sequel 'Gods from Outer Space', as well as the works of John Keel...when I was in my early teens and couldn't conceive of how lame their 'research' was. Since then I've kept a jaundiced eye on his antics.

In the end it's up to extraordinary-claim-makers like von Daniken to provide compelling evidence that their claims are true. He never has. On the contrary, he's been caught red-handing making **** up. If you were as well-versed in his career as I am, you'd have known this. Your bad.

 

[Tomorrow]

If you were as well-versed in his career as I am, you'd have known this. Your bad.

Thank you for your wisdom and input into this thread, oh person of the Krab fruit.

 

[AverageJoe]

In the end it's up to extraordinary-claim-makers like von Daniken to provide compelling evidence that their claims are true. He never has. On the contrary, he's been caught red-handing making **** up. If you were as well-versed in his career as I am, you'd have known this. Your bad.

Y'know, I'm really not well-versed in a darn thing. I don't have any credentials to speak of, and no cool letters after my name. I'm just exactly what my user ID says: an average Joe.

But, it's still pretty obvious to my small intellect that the reason you (in just one cynical post) took an interesting, light-hearted thread and turned it into another verbal holy war, was just because of issues you have with rjbudz. Did you run out of bitter retorts in the gay marriage thread, and decide to attack on another front? Jeez, that's why I stopped reading that one.

Seemed like everyone, whether they "believed" or not, was having a pretty good time with this topic (if all the smiley faces are any indication). I was, anyway. Thanks for bringing me back down to earth.

You have every right to your opinions though, and I'll defend to the death your right to bore the hell out of me and post them here.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Y'know, I'm really not well-versed in a darn thing. I don't have any credentials to speak of, and no cool letters after my name. I'm just exactly what my user ID says: an average Joe.

But, it's still pretty obvious to my small intellect that the reason you (in just one cynical post) took an interesting, light-hearted thread and turned it into another verbal holy war, was just because of issues you have with rjbudz. Did you run out of bitter retorts in the gay marriage thread, and decide to attack on another front? Jeez, that's why I stopped reading that one.

Seemed like everyone, whether they "believed" or not, was having a pretty good time with this topic (if all the smiley faces are any indication). I was, anyway. Thanks for bringing me back down to earth.

You have every right to your opinions though, and I'll defend to the death your right to bore the hell out of me and post them here.

From time to time, the foolishness needs to be pointed out, especially when some may not know who is kidding, what is fact or fiction, etc.
This was about as good a time as any to interject some sanity into that vonDaniken stuff. Yes, I read a few of those myself. Expensive read of silliness.

 

[Tomorrow]

From time to time, the foolishness needs to be pointed out, especially when some may not know who is kidding, what is fact or fiction, etc.
This was about as good a time as any to interject some sanity into that vonDaniken stuff. Yes, I read a few of those myself. Expensive read of silliness.

That may be quite true, mtry, but did it have to be accompanied by his usual personal attacks and self-promotion? To debate the issue of alien life with friendly pallaver, with a goal of learning something, is one thing. To insult and do the "I'm better than you are" thing is nothing but immaturity and/or arrogance. He knows nothing of "my credentials" but he's certain he is better/smarter/wiser/more educated/more manly/more whatever and he wants us to know it.

I guess I find that type of behavior is usually connected to the insecure personality, so probably I should have more sympathy for the individual rather than reacting to the attack.

And just for everyone's consumption, I am an agnostic on these matters. I couldn't vote yea or nay...just as in matters religious and political. But I find the discussion of issues of the existence of god(s), aliens, political positions, etc. to be stimulating. Unfortunately, it just seems there are always people who believe they 'know everything' and who have to insult and attack others as a way of making their points and trying to make themselves feel worthy.

But then the OPRA piece said this all with much more panache.

 

[gmichael]

Of course it did...how the heck else did hotness like Jessica Alba happen? it had to be an alien experiment....create super hot creature, send it to earth, and see how long it takes for her to control the minds of every red-blooded male on the planet.

Is that why I go into a trance whenever I see her on screen? I always thought that it was just a lack of oxygen to my brain.

 

[krabapple]

Thank you for your wisdom and input into this thread, oh person of the Krab fruit.

You're welcome, oh space cadet of the j budz.

 

[krabapple]

Y'know, I'm really not well-versed in a darn thing. I don't have any credentials to speak of, and no cool letters after my name. I'm just exactly what my user ID says: an average Joe.

But, it's still pretty obvious to my small intellect that the reason you (in just one cynical post) took an interesting, light-hearted thread and turned it into another verbal holy war, was just because of issues you have with rjbudz. Did you run out of bitter retorts in the gay marriage thread, and decide to attack on another front? Jeez, that's why I stopped reading that one.

IIRC, I happened upon the gay marriage thread *after* this one...just kismet, I guess.

As for what's obvious to 'average joe' about imaginary 'issues' I have with someone, well, should I care? Now, rename yourself 'exceptional joe', and I might.

But by profession , I kinda do care when anyone, average or not, starts posting about what 'many scientists believe'. I also kinda care when pseudoscience is given a free pass, 'cos god knows our culture isn't scientifically literate enough to tell the difference. And that's why I replied to my new budzy rj.

Seemed like everyone, whether they "believed" or not, was having a pretty good time with this topic (if all the smiley faces are any indication). I was, anyway. Thanks for bringing me back down to earth.

You have every right to your opinions though, and I'll defend to the death your right to bore the hell out of me and post them here.

Oh, darn, did I kill your buzz, AJ? SO sorry. *I'm* having fun though. Have you missed the little sarcasms I've put in my posts? Those are the giveaways.

 

[krabapple]

From time to time, the foolishness needs to be pointed out, especially when some may not know who is kidding, what is fact or fiction, etc.
This was about as good a time as any to interject some sanity into that vonDaniken stuff. Yes, I read a few of those myself. Expensive read of silliness.

Not expensive for me at the time -- I think I got me editions from the *Science Fiction Book Club* of all places, which should have clued me in to how legit they were.

 

[krabapple]

That may be quite true, mtry, but did it have to be accompanied by his usual personal attacks and self-promotion? To debate the issue of alien life with friendly pallaver, with a goal of learning something, is one thing. To insult and do the "I'm better than you are" thing is nothing but immaturity and/or arrogance. He knows nothing of "my credentials" but he's certain he is better/smarter/wiser/more educated/more manly/more whatever and he wants us to know it.

Oh, *that's* it. It wasn't anything to do with anything *you* wrote.
Thanks for clearing that up. I was under the impression *you* were the one who suggested *my* cred wasn't what it could be; that I didn't know much about von Daniken except what I read in a wiki; and that you could speak for what many scientists believe. My bad!

I guess I find that type of behavior is usually connected to the insecure personality, so probably I should have more sympathy for the individual rather than reacting to the attack.

Yes, I saw how manfully you avoided 'that type of behavior. You consistently took the high road. I shall strive to emulate you. (Note to AJ: that's sarcasm -- one of the weapons in the arsenal of the Spanish Inquisition)

And just for everyone's consumption, I am an agnostic on these matters. I couldn't vote yea or nay...just as in matters religious and political. But I find the discussion of issues of the existence of god(s), aliens, political positions, etc. to be stimulating. Unfortunately, it just seems there are always people who believe they 'know everything' and who have to insult and attack others as a way of making their points and trying to make themselves feel worthy.

But then the OPRA piece said this all with much more panache.

So, in your discussions of matters religious and political, I presume I won't find you stimulated enough to ever take issue with someone else's claims.

That doesn't sound very stimulating to me, frankly. Nor, having seen your work , do I believe for a second that it's true.

 

[Tomorrow]

Oh, *that's* it. It wasn't anything to do with anything *you* wrote.
Thanks for clearing that up. I was under the impression *you* were the one who suggested *my* cred wasn't what it could be; that I didn't know much about von Daniken except what I read in a wiki; and that you could speak for what many scientists believe. My bad!




Yes, I saw how manfully you avoided 'that type of behavior. You consistently took the high road. I shall strive to emulate you. (Note to AJ: that's sarcasm -- one of the weapons in the arsenal of the Spanish Inquisition)



So, in your discussions of matters religious and political, I presume I won't find you stimulated enough to ever take issue with someone else's claims.

That doesn't sound very stimulating to me, frankly. Nor, having seen your work , do I believe for a second that it's true.

It's all okay. You win. You da man.

 

[AverageJoe]

IIRC, I happened upon the gay marriage thread *after* this one...just kismet, I guess.

As for what's obvious to 'average joe' about imaginary 'issues' I have with someone, well, should I care? Now, rename yourself 'exceptional joe', and I might.

But by profession , I kinda do care when anyone, average or not, starts posting about what 'many scientists believe'. I also kinda care when pseudoscience is given a free pass, 'cos god knows our culture isn't scientifically literate enough to tell the difference. And that's why I replied to my new budzy rj.

Oh, darn, did I kill your buzz, AJ? SO sorry. *I'm* having fun though. Have you missed the little sarcasms I've put in my posts? Those are the giveaways.

Nope. Haven't missed the little sarcasms, and yes, those are the giveaways. I actually knew a couple scientist-types who always spoke in "little sarcasms" to "average Joe's" to make sure they knew they were in the presence of someone "exceptional". I think they may have treated their peers a little better, but then again they didn't really think they had any peers.

My buzz is fine, thank you for asking. The lows from your little sarcasms are more than evened out by the highs from the the contributions of Buckeye Nut and jgarcia, and the wit of gmichael and majorloser.

I did noticed a couple comments where it looked like you didn't take everything too seriously. Maybe there's hope.

 

[mike c]

wow. I was right. only my booby size thread cannot be degenerated. (because its already pretty low)

 

[JeffD2.]

Where is that booby thread? I'd like a good read!