UFO's

[mtrycrafts]

We did kinda circle around a few times. If there were any buildings down there we may have seen them. But there could be more minerals etc down under.

Or, underground structures? Why expose them to harsh space element.

 

[JoeE SP9]

I think you are unintentionally offering misleading information.

Most of those can easily be eliminated from consideration. Once you weed out stars that are too young, too old, stellar remnants, white dwarfs, brown dwarfs, stars that have swelled into red giants or sub-giants, white & blue-white stars...etc, etc, etc.... Most spectral types are inhospitable to life and can be ruled out immediately.

That list of 3500 has been whittled down by scientists to a short list of about 30 that can even be considered as potential candidates. It's amazing what can be learned from a stars spectra. I've read a lot of this kind of stuff, and I'll see if I can provide links substantiate my above claims tomorrow. I find this stuff quite facinating.

For now... I need to hit the sack, because I have an early tee time tomorrow.

I'm not an expert on stellar types but I was aware that the number of possible candidates was low. I read lots of stuff on this subject also. I hadn't realized the conversation had taken a serious turn.

 

[gmichael]

Or, underground structures? Why expose them to harsh space element.

Wouldn't that be cool? Like the so called dead planet under Babalon 5.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

What I find very interesting is this.......

If roughly 30 potential candidates exist in our 100ly stellar backyard of 3500, just imagine how many how many there are within the confines of our galaxy!!

Modern estimates have been raised to 400 Billion stars for our galaxy!!

400billion x .0086= There may be as many as 3.44 Billion potential stellar candidates in our own galaxy.

Do I think our sun is the 'only star' out of 3.44 billion candidates that has evolved intelligent life on it's planetary satellites???? Not for a minute, but they are most likely very, very far away because of the extreme vastness of space. I ,in fact, believe the universe is teeming with intelligent life, but it's isolated by great distances.

 

[gmichael]

What I find very interesting is this.......

If roughly 30 potential candidates exist in our 100ly stellar backyard of 3500, just imagine how many how many there are within the confines of our galaxy!!

Modern estimates have been raised to 400 Billion stars for our galaxy!!

400billion x .0086= There may be as many as 3.44 Billion potential stellar candidates in our own galaxy.

Do I think our sun is the 'only star' out of 3.44 billion candidates that has evolved intelligent life on it's planetary satellites???? Not for a minute, but they are most likely very, very far away because of the extreme vastness of space. I ,in fact, believe the universe is teeming with intelligent life, but it's isolated by great distances.

And how many of those stars are much older than ours? There could be some very advanced life forms out there somewhere. Have they been here? I don't know. None have stopped by our place yet.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

For a star to have satellites that support intelligent life, it's age will have to be within a certain mid-range......

It will need to be at least more than a several billion years old to allow life the opportunity to evolve, but it cant be so old to the point where flares uncontrollably or swells into a sub-giant or giant that will fry everything in it's solar system.

That leaves a billion or two years in between for the 'average' yellow "G" type stars like our own to thrive in an intelligent way........LOL

All short life span stars can be ruled out. Ya know, the ones that burn really hot & fast... Type A, B, O.... the white and bluish stars will go "Kaboom" and go nova all over themselves after a short period(relatively speaking so). Our sun will never do that(a 'g' star).... It will just swell and grow red, but we'll burn just the same. Eventually, it will 'puff off' it's outer layers, and turn into a planetary nebula. When we look at photos of the Ring Nebula(M57), we may very well be looking at the future destiny of our own sun if viewed from the correct viewing angle in the distant future. The cool stars can also be eliminated from consideration.

There could be intelligent life on 'average' stars like our own that have a 1-2 billion year technology advantage. That would be stretching it though.......LOL Cataclysmic events will probably ensure that doesnt happen. Given another billion years of advancement.... just imagine what could be invented here on earth

Needless to say, there could very well be societies that have millions of years technology advancement beyond what we could ever imagine. Billions???...probably not, but millions...definitely yes!!

Even so, stumbling onto a tiny speck like planet Earth would be like stumbling on a single needle, in a stack of haystacks covering several trillions of cubic miles to the UMteenth power.

 

[mtrycrafts]

If roughly 30 potential candidates exist in our 100ly stellar backyard of 3500, just imagine how many how many there are within the confines of our galaxy!!

Modern estimates have been raised to 400 Billion stars for our galaxy!!

400billion x .0086= There may be as many as 3.44 Billion potential stellar candidates in our own galaxy.

Do I think our sun is the 'only star' out of 3.44 billion candidates that has evolved intelligent life on it's planetary satellites???? Not for a minute, but they are most likely very, very far away because of the extreme vastness of space. I ,in fact, believe the universe is teeming with intelligent life, but it's isolated by great distances.

And, this is just one galaxy in the universe as we know it
I have a very hard time with such large numbers as much as with very small ones as well

Just imagine the distances between galaxies with nothing it it, practically speaking if there is such speaking in astronomy

 

[mtrycrafts]

None have stopped by our place yet.

If they have, evidence is lacking
Maybe the evolving planet gobbled it up as it did with many of the most needed fossils

 

[mtrycrafts]

Given another billion years of advancement.... just imagine what could be invented here on earth

I need help here. As you probably know, my imagination is controlled and limited

cubic miles to the UMteenth power.

Is that anywhere close to a horizontal 8?

Thanks for all your great insights here. Some are interested beyond audio.

 

[Bryguy]

For a star to have satellites that support intelligent life, it's age will have to be within a certain mid-range......

It will need to be at least more than a several billion years old to allow life the opportunity to evolve, but it cant be so old to the point where flares uncontrollably or swells into a sub-giant or giant that will fry everything in it's solar system.

That leaves a billion or two years in between for the 'average' yellow "G" type stars like our own to thrive in an intelligent way........LOL

All short life span stars can be ruled out. Ya know, the ones that burn really hot & fast... Type A, B, O.... the white and bluish stars will go "Kaboom" and go nova all over themselves after a short period(relatively speaking so). Our sun will never do that(a 'g' star).... It will just swell and grow red, but we'll burn just the same. Eventually, it will 'puff off' it's outer layers, and turn into a planetary nebula. When we look at photos of the Ring Nebula(M57), we may very well be looking at the future destiny of our own sun if viewed from the correct viewing angle in the distant future. The cool stars can also be eliminated from consideration.

.

I'm glad someone finally brought up the hertzsprung-russell equation. I also find it odd that the A,B,O stars are the ones that blow themselves up when humans have A,B and O type blood. Could this be a coincedence ?

If we are a religious people wouldn't God be considered alien? If he created us, the planet or cosmos wouldn't he (she,it or what have you) have been created by another force somewhere down the road or did he just poof into existance.

What is your (everyone on this topic) opinion of intelligent life? Just hominid type beings. Let us not forget about insects that work within colonies or hives. They are considered intelligent. What about dolphins or other very deep sea creatures that know how to use their bio-luminescence to attract food. In my book that is considered intelligent. Who knows what lurks beneath the ice on Europa or the other different atmospheres of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn.

Does intelligent life actually have to made up of solid or liquid matter? I don't know.

Bryguy

AP Refractor and mount
Starmaster dob

 

[Tomorrow]

Does intelligent life actually have to made up of solid or liquid matter? I don't know.

AP Refractor and mount
Starmaster dob

Just remember, energy and matter are interchangeable (Energy=Matter x c^).

 

[AverageJoe]

Just remember, energy and matter are interchangeable (Energy=Matter x c^).

That explains it:

I got NO energy, but it don't matter.

 

[Mudcat]

If we are a religious people wouldn't God be considered alien? If he created us, the planet or cosmos wouldn't he (she,it or what have you) have been created by another force somewhere down the road or did he just poof into existance.

Read the 12^th Planet by Zecharia Sitchin

Then there is the J.R.R. Tolkein view where Ea just poofed into existance like some galactic fart.

What is your (everyone on this topic) opinion of intelligent life? Just hominid type beings. Let us not forget about insects that work within colonies or hives. They are considered intelligent. What about dolphins or other very deep sea creatures that know how to use their bio-luminescence to attract food. In my book that is considered intelligent.

Intelligence is generally considered to start with self awareness. Most if not all mammals have this capability (some bipedal species located along the Potomac river may be excluded). It started millions of years ago when the mammalian creatures evolved bi-cameral brains. Not just two hemispheres but seperate sections that controlled thought/logic and actions. Insects are not self aware and while they accomplish some amazing things, are not intelligent. Reptiles, while having an active hypothalamus (controls the four Fs - feeding, fighting, fleeing, and fu uh mating) which is integral to intelligence, they lack the rest of the required brain functions necessary for intelligence.

 

[Tomorrow]

Read the 12^th Planet by Zecharia Sitchin

Then there is the J.R.R. Tolkein view where Ea just poofed into existance like some galactic fart.



Intelligence is generally considered to start with self awareness. Most if not all mammals have this capability (some bipedal species located along the Potomac river may be excluded). It started millions of years ago when the mammalian creatures evolved bi-cameral brains. Not just two hemispheres but seperate sections that controlled thought/logic and actions. Insects are not self aware and while they accomplish some amazing things, are not intelligent. Reptiles, while having an active hypothalamus (controls the four Fs - feeding, fighting, fleeing, and fu uh mating) which is integral to intelligence, they lack the rest of the required brain functions necessary for intelligence.

Made me laugh...galactic fart. That's what the missus accuses me of doing.

Nice post, Mudcat, but not quite accurate. Only a couple of mammals have proven to be sentient. The great apes, hominids (us), and dolphins are the only species I'm aware of that have been proven self-aware. As an example...take a dog into a strange room with a mirror where it can see itself...it barks at it, or wants to play, or looks around the other side of it looking for another dog. Paint a bright red spot on its forehead and it will do the same, never recognizing it is itself. Now put a gorilla or chimp in the same situation, and it will rub its forehead when it sees the image of the red spot on it's own face.

All other animals (with certain humorously stated exceptions) interact with their environment without the benefit of self-awareness. A dog stepping on a hot ember and yelps and never goes near fire again is not self-awareness. But it is intelligence...it learns from its environment. (Smart dog! ) Being sentient and being intelligent, though related, are separate things. Intelligence does not require sentience.

 

[gmichael]

Made me laugh...galactic fart. That's what the missus accuses me of doing.

Nice post, Mudcat, but not quite accurate. Only a couple of mammals have proven to be sentient. The great apes, hominids (us), and dolphins are the only species I'm aware of that have been proven self-aware. As an example...take a dog into a strange room with a mirror where it can see itself...it barks at it, or wants to play, or looks around the other side of it looking for another dog. Paint a bright red spot on its forehead and it will do the same, never recognizing it is itself. Now put a gorilla or chimp in the same situation, and it will rub its forehead when it sees the image of the red spot on it's own face.

All other animals (with certain humorously stated exceptions) interact with their environment without the benefit of self-awareness. A dog stepping on a hot ember and yelps and never goes near fire again is not self-awareness. But it is intelligence...it learns from its environment. (Smart dog! ) Being sentient and being intelligent, though related, are separate things. Intelligence does not require sentience.

Oh h.ll. I have coworkers that should not be called sentient. If you put them in front of the mirror they would look shocked to see someone else on the other side. They'd try to walk behind it and bump their head on the wall. Then look in the mirror and be shocked, again. Then run into the wall, again. This would go on all day if not stopped by another worker. Tomorrow I expect the same. It's a shame really. I've been thinking of putting some padding on the wall. But it is funny to watch.

 

[majorloser]

Oh h.ll. I have coworkers that should not be called sentient. If you put them in front of the mirror they would look shocked to see someone else on the other side. They'd try to walk behind it and bump their head on the wall. Then look in the mirror and be shocked, again. Then run into the wall, again. This would go on all day if not stopped by another worker. Tomorrow I expect the same. It's a shame really. I've been thinking of putting some padding on the wall. But it is funny to watch.

OK, they're over-qualified but I'd still hire them.

Municipal government only requires a pulse (or warm body for management)

EDIT: could you send me some resumes? Cocktail naps are acceptable.

 

[gmichael]

OK, they're over-qualified but I'd still hire them.

Municipal government only requires a pulse (or warm body for management)

EDIT: could you send me some resumes? Cocktail naps are acceptable.

Sure, you laugh. But the other day I was in with our company president. A little bird was on the ledge outside his window. It kept flying into the window and bouncing off. It would stand back up and fly into the window again. This went on for about 20 minutes before Prez noticed the shocked look on my face. He asked, "what are you looking at?" I asked him if he couldn't hear that thump thump thump. He said, "Oh, him? I've gotten used to it." I asked, "don't you think you should let him in? He may be trying to apply for a job."
Now whenever someone asks me a totally stupid question, I answer, "Thump."

I'll see if the crayons still work. They may have dried up.

 

[j_garcia]

I used to have a bird do that at my house too, pretty much every day. The bird is likely defending what it feels is it's territory against what it thinks is another bird...can't expect them to be that smart.

I didn't vote for Al Gore, but I can't say which side of the fence I'm on. Just the other day, we were at an outdoor concert and there was a white dot in a fixed position high up in the sky (we were kicking back waiting for the show to start, looking up). It was a perfectly cloudless sky, and it looked to be quite high - thousands to tens of thousands of feet up. I/we watched it for about 5 min off and on, then the first band started. After that band was done, I looked up and the dot was nowhere to be seen. Weather balloon? Probably. Weird? Yes.

 

[Tomorrow]

What did/do the aliens, if there are any, look like?

Many contemporary scientists believe we are those very aliens...or crossbreeds of them with the native earthlings. It's interesting that for hundreds of thousands of years, humans ever so slowly evolved, being at best hunters and gatherers. Then rather suddenly (about 12,000 years ago), and without antecedents, humankind advanced virtually over-night and invented metalurgy, complex mathematics, astronomy (and navigation), etc.

There is a wealth of studies and books out there that are really interesting and thought provoking. What got me interested was a book I read a long time ago, called Chariots of the Gods, by Erich Von Daniken...still a good read. There are researchers of all stripes, archaeologists, biologists, genetic scientists, astronomers, etc, that are currently working on this very problem. Explorers are still spending millions of bucks looking for Atlantis, as some pre-conceived evidence of extra-terrestrial visitation.

It's all mighty interesting. And I still don't know which school of thought to which I belong. Altho.....my family thinks I'm an alien and will have nothing to do with me. LOL, that's not proof enough.

 

[Mudcat]

Just the other day, we were at an outdoor concert and there was a white dot in a fixed position high up in the sky (we were kicking back waiting for the show to start, looking up). It was a perfectly cloudless sky, and it looked to be quite high - thousands to tens of thousands of feet up. I/we watched it for about 5 min off and on, then the first band started. After that band was done, I looked up and the dot was nowhere to be seen. Weather balloon? Probably. Weird? Yes.

uhmmmm was it a big white dot, about the size of a nickel like................




the moon?