Top Ten Signs of Cable Vendor Snake Oil

[XTI]

<font color='#000000'>I think you're missing the snake oil supertanker by concentrating on speaker &amp; line level cables.

One of our suppliers has just sent me a new price list with some new &quot;reference&quot; AC power cables.

An excerp from their site:

&quot;XXX is the only company in the world who utilizes such high-tech, very expensive, aerospace insulations in these high-end designs for a TOTAL LACK of spectral smearing of highs and midrange glare, and an ability to extend yet define low frequency bass response like no other AC cord.&quot;

I would like one of their 'scientists' to explain to me how connecting 3 feet of 8G power cord in series with a minimum of probably 30' to 50' of $0.10/ft 14G solid wire (I hesitate to call it 'cable') is going to make any difference at all - regardless of the construction of that last 3 feet.

(And that assumes that the so-called 'starting point' is at the breaker panel, and not the several thousand miles away that it actually is...)

As you know, standard IEC cables are often crap (mostly due to lousy connectors at the equipment end) but to expect a conscientious dealer to sell someone a 3 foot power cord for WELL over $2000 seems a bit much. How do they expect me to sleep at night? How do THEY sleep at night?

I guess after you sell a few of those, you can buy a pretty nice bed, mind you...

BUT they will 'break it in' for me for only another $25... Such a deal! Maybe I should buy some for my own system...

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[PaulF]

<font color='#000000'>You mean JPS labs? I could use their power cable as a tow rope if it wasn't so expensive.</font>

 

[Audioholics]

<font color='#000080'>Or weld with them...

There are many (deluded?) people who will swear to you on their mother's graves that they can hear the difference.</font>

 

[Steve Eddy]

<font color='#000000'><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There are many (deluded?) people who will swear to you on their mother's graves that they can hear the difference.</td></tr></table>

And why wouldn't they?

Our perceptions, even if due to purely psychological phenomena, will seem no less real to us than if they were due to actual audible stimulus. It's just human nature.

Why fault or impugn anyone for insisting that they are perceiving differences? Even if one is meat sure that there can be no differences, that's no reason to make things personal.

And while I'm here, I have to say that this cable industry conspiracy theory (i.e. that there are people working discussion forums such as this as covert, paid lackeys of cable manufacturers) does seem to border on paranoia.

I've no idea who thegreenroom2 is, what his affilations or associations may be, or what his motives might or might not have been. But I do feel that Dan's implications and accusations that he had something to hide and his attempts to call him out were insulting.

Who cares what his affiliations or motives may have been? Address what he's ACTUALLY SAID here in this forum. If anything he's said is questionable, it will be questionable regardless of who he is and what his affiliations or motives might have been.

I hate to say it, Dan (you know I love ya, man!) but you did to thegreenroom2 what Curl used to do to me. Instead of addressing what I'd actually said, he'd instead call into question my education and &quot;credentials.&quot;

And as I said to Curl a number of times in response to such a tactic, a person's words don't stand or fall based on who says them, but on the veracity of the words themselves.

Bottom line, I think thegreenroom2 was treated here in much the same way that &quot;naysayers&quot; are treated on Cable Asylum.

se</font>

 

[gene]

<font color='#000000'>Steve;

You certainly bring up valid points and we definately don't want to create the same atmosphere here about cables that is currently on other cable forums namely the Cable Asylum. &nbsp;We entertain all opinions and facts here regardless if they do not align with our beliefs. &nbsp;Sometimes it is easy to turn posts into personal attacks against people, especially when done anonymously which is why we encourage (but not mandate) all participants to register. &nbsp;

You also raise valid points that just because people think they hear differences, even if none exist, doesn't mean they are deluded.

I for one feel my system sounds better at night time, when the lights are turned down. &nbsp;Part of this has to do with a lower noise floor, calmer mood, but I am sure part of it is psychological. &nbsp;But my point is, regardless if the system actually performs differently at night, I achieve more listening pleasure from it then.

Thanks for keeping us all in check.</font>

 

[Steve Eddy]

<font color='#000000'><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I for one feel my system sounds better at night time, when the lights are turned down. &nbsp;Part of this has to do with a lower noise floor, calmer mood, but I am sure part of it is psychological. &nbsp;But my point is, regardless if the system actually performs differently at night, I achieve more listening pleasure from it then.</td></tr></table>

Certainly. When it comes to the pleasure of listening to reproduced music on our audio systems, whatever the listener does to achieve that pleasure is fine by me.

I just wish more people would refrain from making absolute objective claims when it comes to such things as interconnects and such. If someone simply says that something sounds better to them, they won't get any argument out of me. All I have to say is &quot;GREAT!&quot;

But as soon as the absolute objective claims come out, it's a whole other ballgame.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thanks for keeping us all in check.</td></tr></table>

And thanks for taking my comments in the constructive vein they were intended.

Now could you please tell Dan to sloooooooowly let the trigger down on that .38 he's got pointed at my head?

se</font>

 

[Dan Banquer]

<font color='#000000'>I don't use a 38, I use a colt 44 magnum, which is the largest handgun in the world. One shot will blow your head clear off........... So much for my Dirty Harry imitation.
Yes I typically enjoy my audio system more at night. Less ambient noise, and I take this time to relax and enjoy not only the music, but the work I, G&amp;D Transforms and Fried Loudspeaker did. Now if only I wasn't so tired from working all day.</font>

 

[Steve Eddy]

<font color='#000000'><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't use a 38, I use a colt 44 magnum, which is the largest handgun in the world. One shot will blow your head clear off...........</td></tr></table>

Ok, ok. It's a .44 magnum. I'm sitting here with a !@#$% gun to my head and you want ACCURACY!?

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes I typically enjoy my audio system more at night. Less ambient noise, and I take this time to relax and enjoy not only the music, but the work I, G&amp;D Transforms and Fried Loudspeaker did. Now if only I wasn't so tired from working all day.</td></tr></table>

Get a .38. They weigh a lot less than .44 magnums and won't wear you out as much.

se</font>

 

[Guest]

Dan Banquer : I don't use a 38, I use a colt 44 magnum, which is the largest handgun in the world.

Wrong Dan, the Desert Eagle 50-cal. AE has more velocity and throws a bigger slug than the 44-mag. The Desert Eagle in 44-mag. is so mild that it's a ladies gun. The 50AE in the same handgun kicks like a 44-mag. snub-nose with an aluminum frame. The 44 will liquefy the meat of a watermelon, while the 50 will also liquefy the rind.

Don't point any of them at your head, or anyone else's. Just smack your forehead with the palm of your hand, and move on.

 

[Dan Banquer]

<font color='#000000'>Gentleman: I stand corrected. I guess I need to go out and get an UZI. Lightweight, won't tire me out, sprays a lot of ammo in a hurry; just the perfect weapon if you have lousy eyesight, and are surrounded by marketing people from snake oil companies.  

</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Want fire power, try one of these.  

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[Steve Eddy]

<font color='#000000'><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Want fire power, try one of these.  

</td></tr></table>

Hehehe. Cool!

Now you wanna see something cool and VERY clever? Check this out:

A hand-cranked Gatling gun that fires 144 rounds of... RUBBER BANDS!

Christmas is less than a month away and there aren't many gifts as cool and unique as this and still within the realm of affordability. You can find more information here: Rubber Band Machine Gun.

se</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>No way I can top that one Steve.  

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[Steve Eddy]

<font color='#000000'>Hehehe. And that is why I don't design with vacuum tubes.

se</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Well, how refreshing...an audio forum where opinions based on science and objective data are actually more the rule than the exception. I found this forum via a post in a DIY site (either Speakerbuilder.net or the Parts Express forum).

For personal and financial reasons I stopped paying serious attention to audio back in the Neolithic era* (mid to late 1970's), thus entirely missing the rise of cable mythology** and subjectivism in general. Imagine my disorientation on renewing my interest and returning to see what was up with audio lately, finding mags like Stereophile (what is all this crap? Where's the freakin' measurements? What happened to Stereo Review?) and trying to make sense of the discussions in the likes of the (aptly named) Audio Asylum!

I'll be back!

-&quot;Rip Van Woofer&quot; ;-{)}

--------

*Still have some technology from back then: my Dyanco PAT-4 preamp and FM-5 tuner are still going strong. But my Dyna Stereo 120 gave up the ghost. An Adcom GFA 545ii purchased on eBay replaced it. My grandson inherited my Original Large Advents, vintage &nbsp;ca. 1972

**Sure, I knew about Monster Cable. But I figured it was aimed at the general public and that serious, sophisticated audio enthusiasts would never fall for such nonsense...</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Welcome back!

Guest : For personal and financial reasons I stopped paying serious attention to audio back in the Neolithic era* (mid to late 1970's), thus entirely missing the rise of cable mythology** and subjectivism in general. Imagine my disorientation on renewing my interest and returning to see what was up with audio lately, finding mags like Stereophile (what is all this crap? Where's the freakin' measurements? What happened to Stereo Review?) and trying to make sense of the discussions in the likes of the (aptly named) Audio Asylum!

Same story here, only I got interested in the hobby again around '96. Back then there weren't any forums for sensible discussions involving audio. During your long sleep things got a lot crazier, but they also got a lot better. Enjoy.

Quote *Still have some technology from back then: my Dyanco PAT-4 preamp and FM-5 tuner are still going strong. But my Dyna Stereo 120 gave up the ghost. An Adcom GFA 545ii purchased on eBay replaced it. My grandson inherited my Original Large Advents, vintage ca. 1972


I still have an Infinity ServoStatic (not working), a Sony TTS-3000 (working) and a DKL modified Rabco SL-8e (not working) and enough other old gear to create a slight storage problem. My ST-120 gave up the ghost too, as did my PAT-5. Nothing lasts forever.

Quote **Sure, I knew about Monster Cable. But I figured it was aimed at the general public and that serious, sophisticated audio enthusiasts would never fall for such nonsense...

I saw this coming in the 70's, but thought that by the time the 90's had rolled around, improved education would have put an end to the nonsense. Quite an eye-opener, isn't it.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>A few years back, I was reviewing some literature on expensive cables. One of their more interesting attributes
was the 'Esoteric' quality of their perfomance ...

Esoteric :
Intended for or understood by only a particular group: an esoteric cult : mysterious.
Of or relating to that which is known by a restricted number of people.
Confined to a small group: esoteric interests.
Not publicly disclosed; confidential.


Smiles,
Alex &nbsp;

</font>

 

[SoftEng]

Guest : Welcome back!

Quote (Guest @ Nov. 27 2003,23:44)For personal and financial reasons I stopped paying serious attention to audio back in the Neolithic era* (mid to late 1970's), thus entirely missing the rise of cable mythology** and subjectivism in general. Imagine my disorientation on renewing my interest and returning to see what was up with audio lately, finding mags like Stereophile (what is all this crap? Where's the freakin' measurements? What happened to Stereo Review?) and trying to make sense of the discussions in the likes of the (aptly named) Audio Asylum!
[/quote]

Same story here, only I got interested in the hobby again around '96. Back then there weren't any forums for sensible discussions involving audio. During your long sleep things got a lot crazier, but they also got a lot better. Enjoy.

Quote *Still have some technology from back then: my Dyanco PAT-4 preamp and FM-5 tuner are still going strong. But my Dyna Stereo 120 gave up the ghost. An Adcom GFA 545ii purchased on eBay replaced it. My grandson inherited my Original Large Advents, vintage ca. 1972

I still have an Infinity ServoStatic (not working), a Sony TTS-3000 (working) and a DKL modified Rabco SL-8e (not working) and enough other old gear to create a slight storage problem. My ST-120 gave up the ghost too, as did my PAT-5. Nothing lasts forever.

Quote **Sure, I knew about Monster Cable. But I figured it was aimed at the general public and that serious, sophisticated audio enthusiasts would never fall for such nonsense..

I saw this coming in the 70's, but thought that by the time the 90's had rolled around, improved education would have put an end to the nonsense. Quite an eye-opener, isn't it.
I can sell you my old PAT-5 if you want it!

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

<font color='#000000'>OK you narrow-minded, blinded-by-science cynics, I challenge you to deny the obvious audible superiority of my soon-to-be unleashed on a stunned world RipWire interconnects and speaker cables, made of a proprietary gold/silver/sodium/titanium alloy, hand-braided by monks in the Himalayas where they are closer to the Van Allen belt which adds a subtle cryptomagnetic charge to the Teflon-impregnated yak fur dielectric.

Contact me to get yours now at the special introductory price of US$500/foot!

But seriously...the difficulty of doing one's own DBT was mentioned earlier in the thread. There are plans for a clever and easy to build ABX box on the well known Elliot Sound site from Australia (link below). Little electronics involved -- basically just wires, switches and (I think) some trim pots for level matching. I'm thinking of building one for myself. Besides its educational value, it might also come in handy for auditioning any gear you're considering, i.e., is the extra $$ going to get me real performance improvements, or just a pretty faceplate? Assuming you can audition said gear at home, of course.

Cheers.
(f.k.a. bcoppola)
ABX tester project</font>

 

[Guest]

SoftEng : I can sell you my old PAT-5 if you want it!

No thanks, SoftEng.

I have too much obsolete audio gear of my own without adopting anyone else's.

What kind of Software Engineering do you do?