TLS Guy -vs- Studio 100's

[ParadigmDawg]

Not to derail the thread, I would never do that.

I am on my next to last glass of your Scotch. I have really enjoyed it and been drinking it slowly. Thanks man!

I think it might take closer to 35 Foci. I only have one though. I'll see if my girl is willing to trade in her '08 Malibu for a lowly pair of 802D's. We'll get by with the Focus and '93 F150. Oh, that's no good. We're paying on the Malibu.

http://www.examiner.com/x-8310-Trendy-Living-Examiner~y2009m8d21-Humongous-Dynaudio-Consequence-speakers-70000-Gallery

Edit: Oh snap! I just now got a load of the pic. Oh my ...

 

[Alex2507]

I am on my next to last glass of your Scotch. I have really enjoyed it and been drinking it slowly. Thanks man!

Wow, I'm very pleasantly surprised to hear that. How about the beer? What was it called again?
Texas Sux? Did you drink that? How was it?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

We made Chili out of that crappy beer and ate it as we watched Texas stomp on OU!

Wow, I'm very pleasantly surprised to hear that. How about the beer? What was it called again?
Texas Sux? Did you drink that? How was it?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I really wish I still had my MN accounts, I would just have to stop by and see you.

I have a gut feeling we know some of the same people. Does Dr. Terry Crowson ring a bell? He is at HealthPartners in Bloomington.

Wow! Monitoring this thread could become a full time occupation. After fall cleanup today, I'm getting ready to hibernate until about April. Only one more job left; getting up the Christmas lights before it freezes your fingers off. I should get that done this weekend.

 

[PENG]

Today I found a B&W dealer and the listing said something about calling for an appointment. You think he's going to know something is up when I pull up in my Y2K Focus?

That happened to me once, but I eventually found two that do not require appointment. One of them has almost the full 800 line for demo, except for the 801 and 800. The flag ship KEF apparently is comparable to the 800,801,802D but I have not had a chance to hear them yet.

http://www.kef.com/us/Loudspeakers/Reference/207

 

[highfigh]

Yes, no argument, but the present day trend for recordings amongst the majority of rock musicians is not of that level of quality, IMO.

Here's one who is concerned with sound quality and so are the bands he tours with.
http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/musicians-corner/interview-with-genesis-guitarist-daryl-stuermer

 

[highfigh]

I figure that for me the fine recording work on Brothers in Arms is now beyond my means to enjoy. I must hear that recording on the finest speakers this world has to offer. I'm very familiar with tracks 1 and 7. Track 6 is sort of opening it's doors for me and there are still a few others that I enjoy. Today I found a B&W dealer and the listing said something about calling for an appointment. You think he's going to know something is up when I pull up in my Y2K Focus?

I don't think I want to corrupt any of my other favorites like that though.

If you have 'Sailing To Philadelphia', take that with you, too. 'On Every Street' is a great sounding song. OTOH, the rest sounds great, too.

 

[highfigh]

I hear that you can trade 10 Y2K Focus (is it Foci when you have more than one?) in for a pair of Dynaudio Consequence. I am certain you will be happy with them.

I have two questions- Where did you see these? and How did they sound?

 

[Warpdrv]

Here's one who is concerned with sound quality and so are the bands he tours with.
http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/musicians-corner/interview-with-genesis-guitarist-daryl-stuermer

Daryl Stuermer lives in my home town, and when I was in high school, I dated a girl whom used to babysit for him, so I got to chill in his house a few times.... he plays locally often and I truly enjoy seeing him perform live...

Very very good concerts to attend if you have the chance...

Good story telling music - I always love to see him play...

 

[Alex2507]

... avoid three ways like the plague. They just can't be done on the cheap.

Ahem ...

I looked at the spec's and graphs for my Primus 360's and the camel humps/saddle at the low end are centered at ~42Hz which may still be lower than the Fs but it's not terrible or at least as bad as some and the x-over points are @ 350Hz and 3,300Hz (over 3 octaves apart).

Oh and they are cheap, incredibly cheap. They are easy enough to love up to eliminate a sin of commission or two. Take a look at the graphs if you like. I look at them all the time.

I really wanted to show that I have been paying attention, some of it is sinking in and that there is at least one viable cheap 3 way out there outside of the Patrowski twins.

 

[TLS Guy]

Ahem ...

I looked at the spec's and graphs for my Primus 360's and the camel humps/saddle at the low end are centered at ~42Hz which may still be lower than the Fs but it's not terrible or at least as bad as some and the x-over points are @ 350Hz and 3,300Hz (over 3 octaves apart).

Oh and they are cheap, incredibly cheap. They are easy enough to love up to eliminate a sin of commission or two. Take a look at the graphs if you like. I look at them all the time.

I really wanted to show that I have been paying attention, some of it is sinking in and that there is at least one viable cheap 3 way out there outside of the Patrowski twins.

Actually the bass tuning looks pretty good, I would say the bass impedance minimum is going to be in the neighborhood of the drivers Fs. The waterfall plots are very good, until the tweeter looses it. I'm too old to hear that high now any way. I don't how well monkeys preserve their hearing with age.

However the waterfall plots a far superior to the Paradigm. I regard the waterfall plot as the best criteria to short list speakers for audition. I think their success stems from drivers that tolerate a lot of overlap without inducing a lumpy frequency response. The lower band pass crossover is also within an acceptable target.

 

[Alex2507]

I'm too old to hear that high now any way. I don't know how well monkeys preserve their hearing with age.

I have like a 20 dB dip in my ability to hear @ 5KHz evidently in both ears but I hear a high pitched noise in my right ear only. It's not very loud but my doctor assures me it will get louder. I'm not convinced of the accuracy of the 20dB figure or the prognosis. I have been noticing it more since I started paying more attention to sound. Oddly enough my hearing is fine above and below that one frequency but too many sounds going on at once coupled with soft spoken high pitched girls voices make communication a chore. Fortunately I'm always misbehaving and my girl is always yelling so ...

 

[highfigh]

Daryl Stuermer lives in my home town, and when I was in high school, I dated a girl whom used to babysit for him, so I got to chill in his house a few times.... he plays locally often and I truly enjoy seeing him perform live...

Very very good concerts to attend if you have the chance...

Good story telling music - I always love to see him play...

I'm in Glendale, so....I worked at the stereo store at Bay Shore from '78 - '88 and he was a customer. We have had some interesting conversations.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Go-NAD you have asked some very valid questions.

Thanks so much for the response Doc! The process for choosing new loudspeakers is a veritable minefield. Your reply will help to more easily mine detect those infernal mines.

Well my first piece of advice, for those with not a lot of cash to spend on speakers, is to avoid three ways like the plague. They just can't be done on the cheap. A mid range driver with enough bandwidth for a decent three way is a very expensive proposition at this time in the art. On a budget two things happen, the low crossover and to top it off a crossover right in the speech discrimination range. So you have lost the advantage of a three way right away, and added a lot of complication and opportunities to add problems, which on a budget will arise.

I'd previously read that 3-ways are difficult/expensive to design. You've confirmed that for me.

I think you can survey speakers, try and look at a waterfall plot first. If it is a ported reflex then always try and get a look at the impedance curve. It is easy to see if the speaker is correctly tuned. Excuses for not tuning a speaker correctly just don't hold up to scrutiny in my view.

I'm not sure I could read a waterfall plot. Nor, could I look at an impedance curve and gain any insight, other than to get an idea of the power demand of the speaker.

Pick either good bookshelves or good 2.5 ways.

I agree on the bookshelves. In fact, with the availability of good DIY subwoofer designs, one could probably get better results than with towers. Besides, very few tower designs can claim to be "full range" with any degree of legitimacy. And, those that can, are usually quite costly. If I had my time back, there would be no tower speakers in my house.

You can build good speakers for very little. I built a set of bookshelf speakers about 14 years ago for under $50 the pair. These have passed around the family over the years, and my two boys continue to fight for them. My son Andrew has them hooked up at the moment.

The thought of building a set of bookshelves is very appealing. It's certainly more complicated than building a subwoofer though.

Thanks again for the input!

 

[Warpdrv]

I'm in Glendale, so....I worked at the stereo store at Bay Shore from '78 - '88 and he was a customer. We have had some interesting conversations.

Stereo Store as in Sound Stage with Dave Roffers... ?

My business is up in mequon, Shell Gas Station/Carwash - Dave's new place is right down the road from me now... I live up in grafton, you should pop over some time.... your welcome to check out the new Sigs if you like... Oh and the LMS's...

 

[Warpdrv]

I think you can survey speakers, try and look at a waterfall plot first.

I'm not sure I could read a waterfall plot. Nor, could I look at an impedance curve and gain any insight, other than to get an idea of the power demand of the speaker.

I think this would make a very good thread, so people can learn how to read those measurement graphs and gain some understanding what is going on...

 

[highfigh]

Thanks so much for the response Doc! The process for choosing new loudspeakers is a veritable minefield. Your reply will help to more easily mine detect those infernal mines.

I'd previously read that 3-ways are difficult/expensive to design. You've confirmed that for me.

I'm not sure I could read a waterfall plot. Nor, could I look at an impedance curve and gain any insight, other than to get an idea of the power demand of the speaker.

I agree on the bookshelves. In fact, with the availability of good DIY subwoofer designs, one could probably get better results than with towers. Besides, very few tower designs can claim to be "full range" with any degree of legitimacy. And, those that can, are usually quite costly. If I had my time back, there would be no tower speakers in my house.

The thought of building a set of bookshelves is very appealing. It's certainly more complicated than building a subwoofer though.

Thanks again for the input!

Looking for speakers is time consuming, it's easy to second guess choices and it's hard to be sure they'll be what will work best but let your ears be the judge. Some specs will make it possible to weed out some (like a waterfall plot with lots of long resonance times and all kinds of peaks in the impedance curve that are too close together) but make sure the ones you audition are in a room that's as similar to yours as possible.

 

[highfigh]

Stereo Store as in Sound Stage with Dave Roffers... ?

My business is up in mequon, Shell Gas Station/Carwash - Dave's new place is right down the road from me now... I live up in grafton, you should pop over some time.... your welcome to check out the new Sigs if you like... Oh and the LMS's...

You own the place? I think I talked to you if you owned it in '05.

 

[Warpdrv]

Our family has owned it for 40 years....

My Father, and brother are here all the time as well, so it could have been any of us... I am the semi younger bald guy

 

[DSANTI]

I think this would make a very good thread, so people can learn how to read those measurement graphs and gain some understanding what is going on...

That would be good. I just saw this thread and read through quickly but have no clue on what I am supposed to get out of those graphs. It would help guys like me for sure and I'm sure there are many.