The Speaker Company?

codexp3

codexp3

Audioholic
Reviewers are experts at dressing up flaws on a speaker, while still trying to say it is a flaw. They also use either too technical of a language to keep happy the techies out there, or they use language that sounds like a wonderful story to say that the speaker is not that good; and no one understands.

On another forum I once said that if you see a review with three or four faults "iffy" comments about the speaker being reviewed to be careful of buying that speaker, even if the reviewer in its conclusion says that the speakers is good. Needless to say, most people jumped at me saying that I didn't know what I was talking about, and how was it possible for a reviewer to hide between the lines such info. Well, I still have to see a reviewer that says: "This speaker sucks". BTW, most of the ones that jumped at the fact that reviewers tend not to be clear about flaws in a speaker had titles in their nicks like "Senior Forum Audio Guru", "Grand Master Audio Expert", "Professor in Audio Mastery", etc.

Would be nice to see a real review. For example, a Klipsch RVX-42:

It is a nice on-wall speaker that comes well packed on a carton box, and you will only spend 2 minutes unpacking it. Construction is average, but good enough for your family room. Installation is a breeze with keyholes provided for on-wall mounting. If you prefer to mount them on a stand, you should buy something better and built for that purpose, like Klipsch's RB Series. It will probably be less expensive anyways. But, if you still insist in doing something as stupid as using an on-wall speaker as bookshelves/towers, then a convenient on-wall/stand switch is provided to adjust the sound according to the mount.

A 10" sub is included with this system, and very much needed. But, we will not talk anymore about the sub as it is a below average piece of equipment. Our advise is to give it away to the needy, and get a real sub within your budget. There are at least 50 options, so do your research as there is nothing more boring than doing sub reviews.

Hook up is easy using a 14/2 AWG cable, you have done this many times so explaining further will just take up advertisement space. We used three $20,000.00 ea. McIntosh Amps with a $10,000.00 AV Pre-Amp/Processor, and a $1,000.00 surge protector/signal conditioner. But, who cares as we know you guys are using an Onkyo TX-605, Marantz SR-4001, Denon AVR-888, HK AVR-247, or something similar in the $300.00 - $500.00 range.

The typical buyer for these speaker is a blue collar hard working person that his wife grabbed him by the balls and made him buy on-walls because of decoration issues. His equipment is good, but modest, probably anchored by one of the above receivers and uses a Made in China DVD/CD player. To keep within that we used a Shanling T-100 CD player, Made in China and sold in the USA for only $2,000.00. For movies we chose a $3,000.00 BluRay Marantz player that we were able to get free from Marantz to review. Let me say this DVD player is the best one out there, and at $3K it is a bargain. If Marantz keeps sending free stuff we need to patrocinate their products.

For our music test I played some demo CD's with excellent music that you can only find in this tiny specialty CD store in a basement in Juno, AK. For DVD we used The Incredibles remastered edition with super enhanced surround; only two copies available, ours and the one the audio engineered who edited it has. Basic stuff.

Won't get into music details, but the RVX-42's were loud, clear and detailed, but loud. The horn was just too much for my ears. Only heard two tracks and my ears wanted to pop. As for movies it was a diffrent story, if felt like if you were there. Explosions sounded real, transitions from one speaker to the other were seamless, and dialogue was very clear and precise. These speakers had a good image, but not so much could be said about their soundstage. Bass had to be handled by the sub, which we already said is a POS and couldn't handle booms, explosions, and rumbles very well.

In conclusion I wouldn't recommend these speakers, as there are better options for the same price or less. As an example, Paradigm Cinema 330, and Monitor Audio R225.

For our next issue we will have extra pages available as Klipsch will pull their multi page advertisement from our magazine.
Superb post! LOL! You must write for Home Theater Mag or Sound and Vision. Have you ever noticed that every single speaker they review they always use the same line: “This speaker sounds like a speaker costing several times more!” When I was trying to select between the Paradigm S8, Revel F52, B&W 804D, Dynaudio Contour, and Definitive 7000 every single review had some variation of that line. Every speaker graded exactly the same: 95 overall.
 
furrycute

furrycute

Banned
So codexp3, I am just curious, which speaker did you end up with?


I get the same impression when I read those pro magazines, every speaker they review is "easily worth several times the asking price." I wonder is there a special golden speaker that costs X amount that sets the industry standard, against which all other speakers are compared against? :)
 
codexp3

codexp3

Audioholic
So codexp3, I am just curious, which speaker did you end up with?


I get the same impression when I read those pro magazines, every speaker they review is "easily worth several times the asking price." I wonder is there a special golden speaker that costs X amount that sets the industry standard, against which all other speakers are compared against? :)
I went with the Paradigm Signature S8 mains, C5 center, and S4 surrounds. It was actually the very first system I auditioned. The beryllium tweeter in the V2 is the best I’ve heard. In my opinion they were the most detailed speaker I auditioned. I liked the Revels soundstage, but the tweeter was a bit lacking. I’d have to rank the Dynaudios a very close second. The B&W 804D just didn’t impress me, especially considering it was the most expensive speaker I auditioned.

The one thing that made me think twice about the Paradigms was the dealer’s unwillingness to drop the MSRP. The S8s retail for 7200, the c5 3200. The best I could get them to come down to was 6600 for the S8s and 2700 for the C5. I ended up paying 12500 for the system with no sub. The Revel dealer offered me the entire Performa system (f52s, c52, m22) for 9800 including the B15 sub. I don’t know if Revel overcharges for their products, but both dealers I spoke with were willing to knock thousands of dollars off of the MSRP.
 
furrycute

furrycute

Banned
That's one SWEET system you've got there! Congrats on the purchase.

The dollar has plummeted against all major currencies as of late, even against the Canadian dollar. Paradigm is a Canadian company. I'm sure they upped their price in U.S. dollars quite a bit since the drop in the value of the U.S. dollar. I've noticed that the prices on Brystons, also a Canadian company, have also gone up quite a bit.
 
codexp3

codexp3

Audioholic
That's one SWEET system you've got there! Congrats on the purchase.

The dollar has plummeted against all major currencies as of late, even against the Canadian dollar. Paradigm is a Canadian company. I'm sure they upped their price in U.S. dollars quite a bit since the drop in the value of the U.S. dollar. I've noticed that the prices on Brystons, also a Canadian company, have also gone up quite a bit.
That's exactly what happened. The S8s hit the market at 5400. The price increase happened two months before I decided to update my system. I'm 100% satisfied with my decision. In a couple of years when I finish paying off my student loans I want to move the paradigms to the living room (they look good enough to be the showcase of any room) and get the Ultima Salon2s or KEF Reference 207/2 for the theater room.
 
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furrycute

furrycute

Banned
Looks like Revel is an American company, maybe that's why their prices are still within reasonable limits. How much does a pair of Ultima Salon2 cost nowadays? I am curious.:)


Did you get a chance to hear the B&W 802D? If you have, what are your thoughts on how the 802D compares to the Paradigm S8? The 802D are the best speakers I have heard. And once I pay off my student loans, and once I finally save up enough money for a down payment for a house, maybe then I will indulge myself and buy the 802D's (not going to happen for at least 6 more years...). :p
 
codexp3

codexp3

Audioholic
Looks like Revel is an American company, maybe that's why their prices are still within reasonable limits. How much does a pair of Ultima Salon2 cost nowadays? I am curious.:)


Did you get a chance to hear the B&W 802D? If you have, what are your thoughts on how the 802D compares to the Paradigm S8? The 802D are the best speakers I have heard. And once I pay off my student loans, and once I finally save up enough money for a down payment for a house, maybe then I will indulge myself and buy the 802D's (not going to happen for at least 6 more years...). :p
You can get the Salon2s for around 16 new. I did hear the 802Ds at Audio Visions South, but I didn't like them as much as the Wilson Sophia 2. I do think they were one of the most natural sounding speakers I've ever listened to. The Wilson's seemed to add a bit to the high frequencies which I like. I 100% understand why someone would prefer the 802 it adds nothing extra, very neutral.
 
furrycute

furrycute

Banned
I have been keeping my eye on used B&W 802D's and 800D's on audiogon for some time now. Looks like you can get a used pair of B&W 800D used for about the same price as a new pair of 802D. But considering the weight of these monsters, I am not even sure if it is even worth the hassle of buying them used.

I just hope that by the time I will be ready to buy them, the exchange wont be something like one British pound to three U.S. dollars or something even worse. If that ever happens, I think I will just to take some wood working classes and start building my own speakers!:D
 
codexp3

codexp3

Audioholic
If the economy continues to decline and the dollar continues to lose its value we may be better off moving to England. Those wood working classes could be put to better use recreating the Mayflower and sailing back to England. Couldn't you see the looks on the faces of the British if we told them the "New World" thing didn't pan out.
 
furrycute

furrycute

Banned
300 million more residents flooding onto the British Isles...

I think I'd better start planning on buying an apartment in London right now. Because once the floodgate opens the real estate market in England will soar through the roof.:D


And I think will also need to keep some additional funds on hand to buy up some prime Manhattan real estate once people start moving out. Can you imagine, buying up a whole block on Central Park West for next to nothing. Man, I will really be starting to live the American dream! (while the rest of my crazy countrymen will be flooding into England). :)
 
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G

Guangui

Full Audioholic
Superb post! LOL! You must write for Home Theater Mag or Sound and Vision. Have you ever noticed that every single speaker they review they always use the same line: “This speaker sounds like a speaker costing several times more!” When I was trying to select between the Paradigm S8, Revel F52, B&W 804D, Dynaudio Contour, and Definitive 7000 every single review had some variation of that line. Every speaker graded exactly the same: 95 overall.
They like that 89+ average score a lot. What I like about my PSB's is that I feel like I bought the best darn speaker in the world. I only paid $515.00/pr. for a speaker that sounds like $1,030.00/pr. speakers. Let's be real at $515.00/pr. T45 is a very good speaker, but at $900.00/pr. Monitor Audio RS6 sound better, and at $1800.00/pr. (double RS6) you can get Salk Song Towers, which sound awesome, and at $3600.00/pr. (double the Song) you can get a pair of Salk Veracity or Spendor S or PSB Synchrony or MA Gold, all of which sound better than the Songs; and we can keep doubling.
 
tomd51

tomd51

Audioholic General
They seem to have a similar build to the EMP towers as well, could be either a similar or the same manufacturer that's done the builds.

Nick V. provided me a bit of info on these, I'd planned on opening a separate thread for those interested as this one's gotten a bit off course... -TD
 
tomd51

tomd51

Audioholic General
1) The are most definitely not a "white van" speaker company. If in fact you had read a decent portion of this thread, you would know that. TSC is a relatively new ID company that looks to be a separate entity, but owned by D&M Holdings (apparent by the research done earlier in this thread such as domain owner, building address, etc.), who is the parent company for Denon, Marantz, Boston Acoustics, etc.

2) All of TSCs current offerings come with a 30 day satisfaction guarantee that provides for return shipping, so there's no out-of-pocket risk for that 30 day trial whatsoever. Haven't seen that offer from any "white van" speaker companies.

3) Seeing how the three you listed are known "white van" speakers, you might want to let folks know you're kidding, some folks actually look at these threads for informative purposes... :rolleyes: -TD
 
M

m5isa540

Audioholic Intern
Too many responses in this thread to read all..... But, I wouldn't touch these things with a 33 1/2 ft pole; especially if you have not heard them. How do you know they are not White Van speakers (which they look like to me)? Why not buy some of these...

http://www.divincisound.com/

Or perhaps some of these....

http://www.trtheaterresearch.com/

or these....

http://www.voklaudio.com/
And of course I am kidding about the speaker web sites listed above. They are excellent examples of bogus White Van speaker companies that have snazzy web sites. Having absolutely no experience with or exposure to TCS I was skeptical. I have been assured that TCS is legit.... But I would never buy a speaker that I could not audition first. Not sure how this works with Internet speaker companies. Me, I don't relish the idea of repacking speakers to send back to the Internet dealer because I didn't like the way they sounded. What a hassle....
 
tomd51

tomd51

Audioholic General
Just wanted to make sure you weren't serious, all it takes is one newb to look at some of those sites, see their stuff and say "wow, those look nice and are so cheap!" :D

I hadn't heard of TSC or seen their speakers until I stumbled across this thread and decided to be the guinea pig. Actually it was kind of fun to give them a try by ordering them, run them through some demo material and match them up against some other bookshelfs I'm familiar with and see how they did.

Nick (GM of TSC) was kind enough to offer to send them out for a demo, but I thought I'd try to recreate the real customer scenario from start to finish and I was pretty pleased with the experience, not terribly difficult at all to deal with and get my credit for them. Heck, if I needed a relatively inexpensive set of bookshelfs (which my wife would quickly respond with "yeah, like another hole in your head" :D), I would have kept these no question.

There's upsides and downsides to going the ID route, but if you're looking for a solid performing speaker, can demo it in your own listening environment and stand to save some money going ID, it's worth the hassle of the returns in the event you're not satisfied, IMHO.

As always, to each their own and YMMV... -TD
 
P

poopmat

Audiophyte
verry happy tsc customer

look im not an audiophile i think its crazy to spend 1500+$$ on speakers
i have a kid a mortgage car payments etc...
all that said for my budget these speakers rock
i have the 5" version with the center channel hooks up to my onkyo surround receiver that's like 10 yrs old and my system has never sounded better.
if your looking for audiophile quality go spend 1000$ or more on nice b&m bookshelves. i personally cant afford that. so for me and others in my same situation this is a great alternative
also they were shipped promptly and with no damage
just my 2 cents
 
T

trnqk7

Full Audioholic
Stay on here for too long and we'll change your mind :)

Understood-I don't have any kids yet, but I do have the mortgage, etc. I used my tax refund to buy my speakers and although they were relatively expensive, I think they are more than sufficient to last several years...it's an investment thing and one that doesn't depreciate as fast as some things in our lives, such as automobiles.

With that said-it's smart to stay within budget, there's nothing about this hobby that's worth breaking the bank for and putting yourself into a precarious financial situation.
 
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