The freedom convoy of antivaxers here in Canada are a bunch of facist pigs.

[Danzilla31]

Agree with your comment on compliance. I disagree with earlier the lowest common denominator comment. It's disrespectful to many in NYC as well as other large cities. Maybe some are not aware of some urban centric information.

As reported today, the vaccination rate is now 75% and that's progress in NYC. What about the other 25% or 2,000,000 people? They are not "white rednecks". They are in the immigrant communities that have arrived both recently and in the recent past. The recent ones are not vaxx'd at the border when they come in and most are not seeking the vaxxs when they get to NY. Their vaxx rates are reported to be less than 3/5's that of whites. Wide swaths of areas in the Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn and even Staten Islands have high death rates and low vacc rates. If you question them, they have a great distrust of government in the US. They import that attitude to gov't from their home countries from where they are escaping abuses.

In the black communities, the anti-vaxx will mention the Tuskegee Experiments as well as thousands of other abuses that they have borne over the last 400 years by the gov't. It's also extremely difficult to gain the trust of them now because of 50 years of broken promises by local politicians to improve the conditions in their communities, be it crime, lack of commerce, lack of police resources, a shambles of an education system...the list goes on. The politicians show up every 2 years for votes and disappear.

Somehow we have to get through to them. Things are more complex than we expect.

I agree with you.

The comment about the lowest common denominator was not mine but another members

I know that the largest portion of the unvaccinated are not white supremacist redneck conservatives as you say but rather minorities and other people in our population that choose to be resistant as you correctly pointed out for reasons far more complicated then they are being selfish or are stupid or just don't care.

However that is the prevailing tone on a lot of social outlets including some threads in these forums and the popular consensus seems to be iron fisted mandates and shaming and stereotyping these populations as a solution for compliance.

That outlook with some is so prevalent that I just don't argue it on these threads anymore

I will say that Walmart actually has achieved very good success lately on vaccination with some of these populations by meeting with there community leaders and talking with them about there reasons for not complying rather than shaming or forcing and it has had improved results.

I don't believe in leaving anyone behind however I am a realist and although we can improve the numbers it will still never reach what some want it to be

I'm hoping that policy makers accept this reality and begin shaping policy moving forward that takes this into account rather then doubling down on just one approach only pushing vaccines and mandates and shaming and trying to impose basically there will on those that won't. That is all I'm trying to say

 

[SithZedi]

I agree with you.

The comment about the lowest common denominator was not mine but another members

I know that the largest portion of the unvaccinated are not white supremacist redneck conservatives as you say but rather minorities and other people in our population that choose to be resistant as you correctly pointed out for reasons far more complicated then they are being selfish or are stupid or just don't care.

However that is the prevailing tone on a lot of social outlets including some threads in these forums and the popular consensus seems to be iron fisted mandates and shaming and stereotyping these populations as a solution for compliance.

That outlook with some is so prevalent that I just don't argue it on these threads anymore

I will say that Walmart actually has achieved very good success lately on vaccination with some of these populations by meeting with there community leaders and talking with them about there reasons for not complying rather than shaming or forcing and it has had improved results.

I don't believe in leaving anyone behind however I am a realist and although we can improve the numbers it will still never reach what some want it to be

I'm hoping that policy makers accept this reality and begin shaping policy moving forward that takes this into account rather then doubling down on just one approach only pushing vaccines and mandates and shaming and trying to impose basically there will on those that won't. That is all I'm trying to say

Interesting info about Walmart and their approach. There will be so many lessons to learn from all this when/if this winds down.

 

[Trell]

No, I don't think the stats particularly support your view. Sure, at the younger/healthier end your risks are seemingly lowered in many cases, but who is to say what that limit of expected protection is particularly? Going by the usual anti-vax nonsense I'd simply assume that's the stupid route.

He is an anti-vaxxer and rational arguments are unlikely to change his opinions, but he does show how little regard he has for other peoples lives by refusing to take a safe and efficient vaccine.

 

[Trell]

If you are under 65 and in good health, you have .05% chance of dying. ( I will and did take that chance.). If you get the virus and survive your risk of getting the virus again and risk of a serious adverse response is like 8 times better than if you got the shot. If you have the vaccine you are marginally better off, regarding spreading the virus, but only for a few months. Bottom line, the only reason tho get the shot is to protect yourself. Given that most of the Americas have a relatively healthy population, only those at risk need to get the vaccine. If your neighbor doesn’t get the shot, it should not bother you at all.

No, the bottom line is that not only do you protect yourself but also other people by taking a safe and efficient vaccine against COVID. Health care system is stressed and even on the brink of collapse in some places, so various illnesses that earlier was treatable are now becoming deadly. It is not only that you risk dying in COVID but also that you get very sick and need health care, thus consuming precious resources that you could mostly prevent by taking a vaccine.

And then we have anti-vaxxer parents with small children, and I am sure that the children would like their parents to live.

 

[GO-NAD!]

The CBC reports the Russians have covert ops working there. Guess they aren't that busy in the Ukraine.
Do the taxpayers up there pay for this type of reporting?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1487465754668810240

The CBC said nothing of the kind. The Russians have employed online trolls to create/exacerbate controversies in Canada, the US and Europe for several years now. This would just be par for the course.

And, the "True North Centre" was founded by a Conservative Party staffer, so they will frame stories in a quite partisan fashion.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Also could somebody help me out here? It's something I've been confused about. I get enforcing mandates in certain industries. My industry nursing? absolutely. Airlines, public transportation, in places like grocery stores or crowded places certain industries with the way science shoes how this virus likes to spread I totally understand the need to mandate.

But Truckers? I know drivers have some that are friends. They are isolative solitary they pick up there loads on a backdock with not a ton of contact when they load and offload. I'm just wondering if somebody could help me see the science behind mandating this industry. Because knowing how they operate run there rigs and pick up and drop off loads I'm having trouble seeing it. Unless there is something I'm missing we need help in this area we already have a massive trucker shortage.

The mandates pertain to truckers crossing the Canada/US border. The same policies are in place in both countries. These fools wouldn't even be permitted to enter the US, so the requirement to be vaccinated, or face compulsory isolation on return to Canada, is completely moot. The organizers planning this protest, were supposedly focused solely on that issue. But, as expected, it's been overshadowed by all kinds of anti-vaxx nuttery.

 

[SithZedi]

The CBC said nothing of the kind. The Russians have employed online trolls to create/exacerbate controversies in Canada, the US and Europe for several years now. This would just be par for the course.

And, the "True North Centre" was founded by a Conservative Party staffer, so they will frame stories in a quite partisan fashion.

Thanks for pointing out the fact about the TNC. Ah, the Russians, in business since 1917, then again, I'm sure our CIA does the same. Its what they are paid to do.

 

[highfigh]

Also could somebody help me out here? It's something I've been confused about. I get enforcing mandates in certain industries. My industry nursing? absolutely. Airlines, public transportation, in places like grocery stores or crowded places certain industries with the way science shoes how this virus likes to spread I totally understand the need to mandate.

But Truckers? I know drivers have some that are friends. They are isolative solitary they pick up there loads on a backdock with not a ton of contact when they load and offload. I'm just wondering if somebody could help me see the science behind mandating this industry. Because knowing how they operate run there rigs and pick up and drop off loads I'm having trouble seeing it. Unless there is something I'm missing we need help in this area we already have a massive trucker shortage.

I would ask, if truckers are so solitary, why was trucking shut down? Warehouse workers, longshoremen and many others in distribution don't do their jobs while hugging each other so, aside from the actual supply of goods, trucking could have remained relatively intact WRT time lost due to the shutdown. Is that part of their reason for not wanting mandatory vaccination? The shutdown of transportation caused many truckers to leave- THAT's one of the reasons we can't move goods.

 

[Trell]

I would ask, if truckers are so solitary, why was trucking shut down? Warehouse workers, longshoremen and many others in distribution don't do their jobs while hugging each other so, aside from the actual supply of goods, trucking could have remained relatively intact WRT time lost due to the shutdown. Is that part of their reason for not wanting mandatory vaccination? The shutdown of transportation caused many truckers to leave- THAT's one of the reasons we can't move goods.

The truckers could get themselves vaccinated, just saying.

 

[highfigh]

The truckers could get themselves vaccinated, just saying.

They could, but if they aren't in contact with many people, their risk is lower than for those who are usually in crowded places with random people. I watched someone from New Hampshire on the news and he mentioned the extremely low transmission during most of the pandemic- until recently, that state had an average of 8 cases per week and now, they're seeing 1200. What changed? Obviously, communicability has increased with Omicron, but did they suddenly have more people moving from city to city and going into more crowded places where people were carrying it? Didn't see anything about that.

Like it or not, these vaccines and the booster affect people badly and when someone hears about bad experiences often enough, they will make the decision to avoid it. Obviously, everyone's immune system will react differently, but I know many people who had an extremely bad time after the first vaccinations and even after the booster.

 

[cpd]

I am too am not concerned with politics. The greater good is for those that are not at risk to earn natural immunity because it is better for society. The data show that I am no greater risk than you of spreading the virus. What good does society get from me gettin a vaccine?

You claim things as "fact" that simply are not true. Please enlighten us with the data that shows unvaccinated are at no greater risk of spreading than vaccinated.

In the meantime...

 

[Lazasar]

You claim things as "fact" that simply are not true. Please enlighten us with the data that shows unvaccinated are at no greater risk of spreading than vaccinated.

In the meantime...

It is common knowledge, or at least should be, but the mainstream media does not cover it. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-vaccines-cant-prevent-transmission-anymore/ar-AASDndg.
I acknowledged that there is a slight difference…but the point is that if we everyone can get and spread the virus, there is no need to get the shot for “the greater good”.
I say if you want the shot you should get it, but we should stop vilifying the unvaccinated.

 

[lovinthehd]

It is common knowledge, or at least should be, but the mainstream media does not cover it. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-vaccines-cant-prevent-transmission-anymore/ar-AASDndg

Eh? msn isn't mainstream? Whut? It's always been the case that I know of that even vacced people can still spread the disease, that's why we do things like social distancing and masking on top of vaccing.....

 

[Verdinut]

They could, but if they aren't in contact with many people, their risk is lower than for those who are usually in crowded places with random people. I watched someone from New Hampshire on the news and he mentioned the extremely low transmission during most of the pandemic- until recently, that state had an average of 8 cases per week and now, they're seeing 1200. What changed? Obviously, communicability has increased with Omicron, but did they suddenly have more people moving from city to city and going into more crowded places where people were carrying it? Didn't see anything about that.

Like it or not, these vaccines and the booster affect people badly and when someone hears about bad experiences often enough, they will make the decision to avoid it. Obviously, everyone's immune system will react differently, but I know many people who had an extremely bad time after the first vaccinations and even after the booster.

Well, I don't know any who had a bad experience following vaccination with either the Pfizer or the Moderna vaccine. Their age varies from 30 to 97

 

[lovinthehd]

Don't know about bad experience, but my second initial Moderna did have some baggage the first didn't have....and have heard from a few friends that the booster is a bit worse....dunno, have procrastinated on the booster (but am still largely socially isolating/masking etc)

 

[Verdinut]

The mandates pertain to truckers crossing the Canada/US border. The same policies are in place in both countries. These fools wouldn't even be permitted to enter the US, so the requirement to be vaccinated, or face compulsory isolation on return to Canada, is completely moot. The organizers planning this protest, were supposedly focused solely on that issue. But, as expected, it's been overshadowed by all kinds of anti-vaxx nuttery.

Yes, anti-vaxx, anti-sanitary restrictions and anti-mask nuttery.

 

[lovinthehd]

Let free-dumb ring!

 

[Verdinut]

Don't know about bad experience, but my second initial Moderna did have some baggage the first didn't have....and have heard from a few friends that the booster is a bit worse....dunno, have procrastinated on the booster (but am still largely socially isolating/masking etc)

When did you have your 2nd Moderna jab? The Moderna mRNA portion of the vaccine originally contained 3 times the portion of the Pfizer's. Then that dose was halved later on. I'm confident that you wouldn't experience anything severe with the lower dose booster shot. If I were you, I would verify to have what I tell you confirmed.

My two first jabs were the Pfizer while my booster shot last December was the Moderna. I only experienced a mild pain for 3 days near the injection spot.

 

[Danzilla31]

Well, I don't know any who had a bad experience following vaccination with either the Pfizer or the Moderna vaccine. Their age varies from 30 to 97

Your looking at one of them the 2nd dose and the booster. Both of those made me sicker then I've been in a long time. It hurt to move sick laying in bed sweating and shaking with a fever sick. Body aches so bad I can't even focus on a movie sick. Headache so bad it felt like my eyeballs were going to pop out sick.

Both my parents took it and had no symptoms except for a sore arm.

So it's different for everyone. But yeah there are some that get some pretty nasty side effects

I learned from the 2nd dose and when I took my booster I took it on a Wednesday and then asked for Thursday and Friday off. And I'm glad I did. There's no way I could've worked feeling that way

 

[Verdinut]

Your looking at one of them the 2nd dose and the booster. Both of those made me sicker then I've been in a long time. It hurt to move sick laying in bed sweating and shaking with a fever sick. Body aches so bad I can't even focus on a movie sick. Headache so bad it felt like my eyeballs were going to pop out sick.

Both my parents took it and had no symptoms except for a sore arm.

So it's different for everyone. But yeah there are some that get some pretty nasty side effects

I learned from the 2nd dose and when I took my booster I took it on a Wednesday and then asked for Thursday and Friday off. And I'm glad I did. There's no way I could've worked feeling that way

If you had the Moderna vaccine for the first 2 jabs, it contained 3 times more of the mRNA fraction than the Pfizer. Moderna would have later cut the dose by 50% for the booster shots.