The Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, and Auro-3D Discussion Thread

Jon AA

Jon AA

Audioholic
My biggest complaint right now is that the volume of the Atmos tracks is very low. Normally I would list to music thru the Denon at a level between 45-50. For Atmos to get the same volume I need to listen at a volume between 75-80. I am not sure where the problem is.
I've noticed this as well. Most Atmos tracks on Tidal are very low in volume.
When playing the Cheryl Crow track I notice that there are no vocals whatsoever coming from the Center Channel.
Yes, the mixing of many of these albums is quite schizophrenic. Atmos is just a tool, and it appears to me whoever was doing the remixing on many of these albums had never heard a good multichannel recording before as it didn't seem they knew what they were doing.

I have to say, I'm quite disappointed so far. And I'm a HUGE advocate of multichannel and immersive music, so it really pains me to say it. I was so excited when I heard Tidal was finally doing this--finally! Multichannel music that can be streamed to a wide audience! Finally, maybe, it'll catch on and become more popular!

Unfortunately, most of what I've found so far sounds no better than stereo or certainly no better than stereo run through a good upmixer. There is some that's OK (the Beethoven Symphonies, for example are pretty decent) but by and large, I doubt the material that's there currently is going to win over a large audience and get them all enthused for more multichannel music. That's sad.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Ninja
I've noticed this as well. Most Atmos tracks on Tidal are very low in volume.

Yes, the mixing of many of these albums is quite schizophrenic. Atmos is just a tool, and it appears to me whoever was doing the remixing on many of these albums had never heard a good multichannel recording before as it didn't seem they knew what they were doing.

I have to say, I'm quite disappointed so far. And I'm a HUGE advocate of multichannel and immersive music, so it really pains me to say it. I was so excited when I heard Tidal was finally doing this--finally! Multichannel music that can be streamed to a wide audience! Finally, maybe, it'll catch on and become more popular!

Unfortunately, most of what I've found so far sounds no better than stereo or certainly no better than stereo run through a good upmixer. There is some that's OK (the Beethoven Symphonies, for example are pretty decent) but by and large, I doubt the material that's there currently is going to win over a large audience and get them all enthused for more multichannel music. That's sad.
Reminds me of when Amazon Music said they were going to have 24 bit 96khz tracks. I got excited...until I listened to some. They weren't near as good as the copies I had that were mp3 320kbps. I canceled that subscriptions really quick.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Reminds me of when Amazon Music said they were going to have 24 bit 96khz tracks. I got excited...until I listened to some. They weren't near as good as the copies I had that were mp3 320kbps. I canceled that subscriptions really quick.
Well Amazon Music has music videos now so it’s more than just tunes now. It’s MTV basically.
 
ellisr63

ellisr63

Full Audioholic
I got a response that they did not do it, and forwarded the message to Gene. Gene is checking with his contact at Denon.

Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk
 
chriscmore

chriscmore

Junior Audioholic
If you have three identical speakers across the front and properly balanced, you don't need a center-removing option. I'm not a fan of removing features for folks, but with a proper system it's not needed.

Cheers,
Chris
 
Jon AA

Jon AA

Audioholic
If you're talking about center spread, that's not really accurate. Without center spread all of the dual-mono material (which makes up a large percentage of most popular music) will be collapsed to the center channel.

Even with three identical speakers properly set up, this will not sound the same.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
I'm new to this thread.

I'm using a 2019 Marantz 7705. I'm using a 7.2.4 set up with four ceiling speakers with all of them positioned to Dolby specs.

I have not seen a center spread 'button' on my unit. So I don't know if it is spreading the center or not. However I have to say that I'm very impressed with the Dolby Digital up mixer on this unit. It is a marked improvement on the old Pl IIx.

I have to say that imaging is excellent and does not collapse to the center channel. What I do notice is that it has excellent audio depth as well. You do not seem to localize to the rear, surrounds and ceiling speakers on 2 channel sources unless there is a rear source like audience applause, which is very realistic.

On choral evensong broadcasts from the BBC, you can clearly hear the choir in the choir stalls to the left and right of center. The organ is clearly centered and at a deeper distance form the choir. By some alchemy it also sounds above the choir which it is. The cathedral space is also well captured.

I'm totally amazed with this up mixer that Dolby have. I really hope they don't ruin it with some firmware update.

I have to say the DTS up mixer is awful and harsh. It is far worse than direct two channel. The Auro 3D is fair but nearly as good as the Dolby up mixer.

I have to say that on my rig, it makes good 2 channel recordings close to as good as discreet multichannel recordings. It has made the recordings release a true sense of space and atmosphere that must have been hidden in so many two channel recordings.

I suspect others results may vary. I'm lucky in that all the speakers I have are very capable. Even though my center uses a totally different design and drivers from the mains, as you walk across the front, all speakers present identical tonality. You would never guess the designs are so different. Even the full range 4" ceiling speakers have a very flat mid band response. So I suspect that if the speakers in the system are of very different FR and tonality then that might upset the apple cart.
 
F

frans callebaut

Enthusiast
hello,
i have a yamaha cx-a5100 surround preamplifier. how can i activate center spread ?
best regards,
frans callebaut
 
S

Sal1950

Audioholic Intern
I upmix almost all my stereo sources now. Sad to hear of this new change from Dolby and will write them a nice letter to inform them of my feelings.
I'm currently using a Marantz AV7703 pre/pro and had the 7701 before it. I felt both Dolby and DTS went backwards from the upmixing software that had been included in my 7701.
For 2 ch sources I mostly use Auro-2D chosing to keep my Atmos speakers off during upmix but either 2D or 3D sound superiour to the latest Dolby or DTS software to my ears, I even
paid the $199 upgrade charge for Auro to get it on my 7703.
I love the immersive sound of multich playback and gladly use whatever I find to be the best of the upmixers to get there. Been spending a lot of time in the listening chair since Cov19.
Thanks Audioholics for all you do for us addicted multich listeners. ;)
Sal1950
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I'm new to this thread.

I'm using a 2019 Marantz 7705. I'm using a 7.2.4 set up with four ceiling speakers with all of them positioned to Dolby specs.

I have not seen a center spread 'button' on my unit. So I don't know if it is spreading the center or not. However I have to say that I'm very impressed with the Dolby Digital up mixer on this unit. It is a marked improvement on the old Pl IIx.

I have to say that imaging is excellent and does not collapse to the center channel. What I do notice is that it has excellent audio depth as well. You do not seem to localize to the rear, surrounds and ceiling speakers on 2 channel sources unless there is a rear source like audience applause, which is very realistic.

On choral evensong broadcasts from the BBC, you can clearly hear the choir in the choir stalls to the left and right of center. The organ is clearly centered and at a deeper distance form the choir. By some alchemy it also sounds above the choir which it is. The cathedral space is also well captured.

I'm totally amazed with this up mixer that Dolby have. I really hope they don't ruin it with some firmware update.

I have to say the DTS up mixer is awful and harsh. It is far worse than direct two channel. The Auro 3D is fair but nearly as good as the Dolby up mixer.

I have to say that on my rig, it makes good 2 channel recordings close to as good as discreet multichannel recordings. It has made the recordings release a true sense of space and atmosphere that must have been hidden in so many two channel recordings.

I suspect others results may vary. I'm lucky in that all the speakers I have are very capable. Even though my center uses a totally different design and drivers from the mains, as you walk across the front, all speakers present identical tonality. You would never guess the designs are so different. Even the full range 4" ceiling speakers have a very flat mid band response. So I suspect that if the speakers in the system are of very different FR and tonality then that might upset the apple cart.
That’s why I don’t miss my SACD, DVD-A, and DTS-CD MCH music collection. :D

I think for music up-mix, most people find DSU is #1, Auro3D #2, and DTSX last. Some even prefer 11CH Stereo over these 3 up-mixers.

Everyone is different. Every source is different. YMMV. :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
hello,
i have a yamaha cx-a5100 surround preamplifier. how can i activate center spread ?
best regards,
frans callebaut
There is an option in the setup. It’s been a while, so I can’t recall exactly, but I think it’s in the DSP setup.
 
R

RXP

Audioholic Intern
I've much preferred no center spread in recent years. A spread is a muddled center image. The beauty of a center channel is you get a pin point perfect image. If the track you're listening to doesn't have much stereo separation it will show that though.
 
L

lukemart

Audiophyte
In the home the experience has been a much better result. Not all films can be considered equal though and the use in some is much better than others. There will be a mountain of previously released older film suddenly sporting Atmos/Dts:X. These should probably considered worthless. Unless the mix is entirely redone from scratch, then throwing in a couple X or Y overhead noises will not greatly improve things.
 
F

frans callebaut

Enthusiast
i believe two channel music (cd) sounds better with center spread on, because when you put it off, the sound will more come from the center speaker than from the left and right front speakers and the stereo image will be narrowed down. or am i wrong ?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
In the home the experience has been a much better result. Not all films can be considered equal though and the use in some is much better than others. There will be a mountain of previously released older film suddenly sporting Atmos/Dts:X. These should probably considered worthless. Unless the mix is entirely redone from scratch, then throwing in a couple X or Y overhead noises will not greatly improve things.
I think the Harry Potter movies is an example of them redoing the sound mix from scratch because the DTSX sound is awesome.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
i believe two channel music (cd) sounds better with center spread on, because when you put it off, the sound will more come from the center speaker than from the left and right front speakers and the stereo image will be narrowed down. or am i wrong ?
Everyone has a different preference.

So it's 100% pure personal preference.

Just because I like my steaks "medium rare" doesn't mean it's the "best" way to eat steaks. :D

I love using DTS NeuralX for most of my 2CH music, even though it seems most people don't like to use NeuralX for music.

So there is no Right and Wrong here - just our personal preference.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic
I really do not like to see new features added to receivers at the cost of others. "Hey guys, sorry about the center spread thing. Have you listened to any new Dolby Atmos Music on Tidal yet?" Interestingly, some Atmos music tracks are engineered with the main vocal coming from the center channel. No problem, just apply some center spread... oh, wait. Here is the rub. Center spread worked for 2 channel signals. Even if it had stayed around, it does not work on multi channel tracks from Atmos, DSD or MLP. Now, you can apply Dolby Surround processing to a multi channel DSD or MLP signal, but center spread does nothing when turned on. You cannot apply Dolby Surround processing to a multi channel Atmos music track. So, if you do not like the sound of the center channel only vocal track, tough! You can switch to stereo mode or a DSP mode but that is not the point. I remember running around the house as a little kid yelling, "I want my MTV!" Now, I want my FTT! I want Freedom To Tinker! Some would say that the engineers worked hard on those multi channel presentations and you don't need to play with them. Well, the 2 channel guys work hard as well, but that doesn't stop people from tinkering with their music to see how it sounds when processed into more channels. Bring Dolby Center Spread back and make it applicable to multi channel tracks as well as two channel tracks. Now, Denon, sigh. I remember going from 5.1 to 7.1 and listening to multi channel audio discs. I didn't want to matrix the back surrounds and I didn't want to turn them off. My old Denon receiver had a duplicate surround mode that sent surround information to the back surround channels. I loved using it for 5.1 music. I replaced that receiver with a newer Denon model and went to play some of my 5.1 music discs. I could not find the duplicate surround mode. It was gone! If I wanted to hear 7.1 music, the receiver would apply Dolby Pro Logic IIx processing to the 5.1 signal. UGH! I just turned the speakers off. Dolby, bring back Center Spread and make it applicable to multi channel music! Call it Dolby Miracle Music Whip if you like, just bring it back. Denon, you brought back front wides. How about some love for duplicate surround mode? I just might come back to the fold. Oh, and make them run cooler than some older models. I once put some bread on top of one of my old Denon receivers. It made toast! Did I even post this mess in the correct thread? I need more coffee. Ooh, maybe I'll have it with some toast. Where did I put that old Denon?
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic Chief
i believe two channel music (cd) sounds better with center spread on, because when you put it off, the sound will more come from the center speaker than from the left and right front speakers and the stereo image will be narrowed down. or am i wrong ?
Leave 2-channel music alone. Don't need DTS-X Neural nor Dolby Up-mixer. How about just putting better amps in AVR's.

Dolby Atmos music:eek:, you're killing me.
 

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