The Boy Who Cried Wolf

Kvn_Walker

Kvn_Walker

Audioholic Field Marshall
Honestly, forget the hate for a moment. I can't think of a single issue democrats could use that would rally the majority of voters. All your candidates are too extreme for most people. I think most people believe that if you take out a loan, you should pay it back. You should come into this country legally. Veterens needing assistance take priority over illegal immigrants. You should have healthcare choices. You should have a job if you want one... and if you simply chose not to work, taxpayer assistance should be limited. We already lead the world in transitioning to clean energy without outlawing fossil fuels. Giving every person $1k/month is not the answer.

So seriously for the democrats, where would you focus the campaign if it were your call? Is hating Trump, and Trump supporters, really your best move?
Sadly I have to agree with you... I remember in 2004 that all John Kerry had was "I'm not George Bush!" and we see where it got him. I will be surprised if 2020 doesn't go the same way. Trump started off with something concrete (build the wall) that appealed to the paranoia and antipathy of a large chunks of Americans. He saw how much they loved the raw meat and continued to pile it on. Very simple formula- bash the people and culture that they hate and fear. Progressives don't want to isolate and demonize, but this tactic is exactly why Trump has an unfloundering 35% base that will not lower no matter what he says, what he does, what laws he breaks.

I wouldn't care about Trump if it wasn't for him proactively pitting Americans against one another. Never in my life has America felt more like "two countries." Granted, I missed the Civil Rights movement, but this isn't even explicitly about race. Today's cultural civil war isn't simply "Black or white"; this is one very narrow band of ideologies versus all others. The one side has their champion, and he sits in the White House. The other side(s) can't even decide who or what they want to be, so how will they be able to rally behind anyone?
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
Simple fact is that when people are adamant about being a Republican or Democrat and they refuse to even listen to the other side, we are screwed either way. The fact that both sides will vote their party NO MATTER WHO the candidate is, is a problem. I know there are more moderate folks on both sides (the die hard party members ignore this fact), but those aren't the ones that are talking the loudest.

I for one am pretty much square in the middle. I think both parties are a joke and need to reign in the crazies. We need a candidate (party isn't relevant) that has our people's interest in mind. ALL OF THEM. Not just their party. That's the biggest issue today. God forbid that happen though.

We'll probably get stuck with the two most extreme versions of both parties again and have to choose the "lesser of two evils". That's not how this is supposed to work.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Simple fact is that when people are adamant about being a Republican or Democrat and they refuse to even listen to the other side, we are screwed either way. The fact that both sides will vote their party NO MATTER WHO the candidate is, is a problem. I know there are more moderate folks on both sides (the die hard party members ignore this fact), but those aren't the ones that are talking the loudest.

I for one am pretty much square in the middle. I think both parties are a joke and need to reign in the crazies. We need a candidate (party isn't relevant) that has our people's interest in mind. ALL OF THEM. Not just their party. That's the biggest issue today. God forbid that happen though.

We'll probably get stuck with the two most extreme versions of both parties again and have to choose the "lesser of two evils". That's not how this is supposed to work.
Colluding with a hostile foreign power to influence the election in 2016, and then as President pressuring vulnerable states to interfere in the upcoming 2020 election is not something that is either Republican or Democrat as such. I think it is quite possible to have very differing views on politics without accepting that kind of behaviour.
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
So seriously for the democrats, where would you focus the campaign if it were your call?
Ditch all the old farts, each and every one of them. Stop pandering to and/or being cowed by the twitterverse of cancel-culture sjw idjits, they're a very small, if loud, minority who are neither progressive nor liberal (they're exclusionary/discriminatory and authoritarian). Whoever the candidate is, they need to appeal to blacks, women, the working class, and particularly those in flyover country, but for god's sake not one who frightens the savers/wealthy (as Bernie and Warren do to many elderly widows I know). Offer real solutions, or at least some high grade pandering, to the rust belt, as that's how Trump squeaked his electoral victory.

Despite the D's demonstrated ability to lose elections, the wheels seem to be falling off the Trump train, so they may win in spite of themselves.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Stop with the claims of racism! Jesus Christ! You f&cks can't stop doing that and it's really part of the problem that's tearing the country apart. Every time something happens between people of different races, you leap to the conclusion that it's all because someone is racist and that's just not true. I don't know this woman- I haven't met her, but the same goes for us- you haven't met me, so you don't know what I believe- just what you have read and erroneously inferred. My comment about what she did and didn't control would apply to her shooting ANYONE, not just a Black neighbor. You want to tell me that guns should be taken out of the hands of legal owners because the quantity of guns make people kill and then write that gun control includes the person't mind- I, and others, have been saying that for as long as these debates have existed and you (& others like you) shout us down, saying that it's not a behavioral problem. PEOPLE are the problem- they have lost the ability to handle problems that could be solved in other ways, so they grab the most convenient weapon, often in possession illegally.
Sorry you come across as a thwarted white asshole...so I comment accordingly. You could just stop, too....
 
Kvn_Walker

Kvn_Walker

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ditch all the old farts, each and every one of them. Stop pandering to and/or being cowed by the twitterverse of cancel-culture sjw idjits, they're a very small, if loud, minority who are neither progressive nor liberal (they're exclusionary/discriminatory and authoritarian). Whoever the candidate is, they need to appeal to blacks, women, the working class, and particularly those in flyover country, but for god's sake not one who frightens the savers/wealthy (as Bernie and Warren do to many elderly widows I know). Offer real solutions, or at least some high grade pandering, to the rust belt, as that's how Trump squeaked his electoral victory.

Despite the D's demonstrated ability to lose elections, the wheels seem to be falling off the Trump train, so they may win in spite of themselves.
So true! Sheesh they keep pandering to Progressives as if California and New York weren't a lock! What are these fools doing to win the Rust Belt and swing states?
 
T

TankTop5

Audioholic Field Marshall
So true! Sheesh they keep pandering to Progressives as if California and New York weren't a lock! What are these fools doing to win the Rust Belt and swing states?
I’m comfortable with the beliefs the extremists that have highjacked the Democratic Party with eat any mainstream candidate. What’s truely amazing and that no one within the Democrat party has noticed is that candidates like Bernie (cars carrying communist) have suddenly fallen into the moderate category. Warren even comes off as mentally stable and a rational idea for president! Amazing how far the media has swayed public perception in a short time.


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Kvn_Walker

Kvn_Walker

Audioholic Field Marshall
I’m comfortable with the beliefs the extremists that have highjacked the Democratic Party with eat any mainstream candidate. What’s truely amazing and that no one within the Democrat party has noticed is that candidates like Bernie (cars carrying communist) have suddenly fallen into the moderate category. Warren even comes off as mentally stable and a rational idea for president! Amazing how far the media has swayed public perception in a short time.


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None of the right wing talking heads accepted trump until he actually won. Now he's part of the Holy Trinity. "Stand by your man," that's how the song went...
 
T

TankTop5

Audioholic Field Marshall
None of the right wing talking heads accepted trump until he actually won. Now he's part of the Holy Trinity. "Stand by your man," that's how the song went...
If memory serves, he’s trampled everyone who stood against him like it or not. Eventually they fall in line and the RHINO’s are slowly being replaced. While the Left goes deeper into the abyss the Republican Party is returning to its roots albeit quietly and unnoticed by the masses.


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H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
Interesting perspectives. Most interesting to me is that both liberals and conservatives have exactly the same impression of the opposite party. Tell me again which side tries to "isolate and demonize" the other party. Who colluded with Russia? Who unduly influenced Ukraine? See what I mean?

While I'd love to inform you of information you don't hear from the networks, it wouldn't matter and it's not the purpose of this thread. Someone said we can't nail down strategy until we know the candidate. Chicken or egg? Do we think the candidate really defines the message, or the party? I'm not so sure. But all of what I considered reasonable proposals by Dem candidates are gone because those candidates are gone. The candidates that remain seem extreme to me, and I think they seem extreme to most of the country. Not just normal liberal, but extreme. And that is why I think Trump has already won.

As much as people may hate him, and us, the hate is all they have. Everything he does is within the law, much of which was defined by Democrats. A lot of what he does was supported by Democrats until he did it. Did you know his call to Ukraine was completely within the law AND INTENT of a treaty Obama signed with Ukraine guaranteeing each side would help the other investigate suspected corruption within their government?

I think Trump wins 2020 because most of America sees him taking actions, in spite of repeated, contradictory and fabricated sour-grapes roadblocks set by Democrats. I get it's a tough time for Democrats. We have the Supreme Court, and will likely have it for the next 20 years. This means Democrats will have to change law by actually changing the law, instead of having liberal judges do it from the court. There is a lot at stake. And I think Democrats have painted themselves into a corner, with no way out other than dirty tricks and fabrications.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
None of the right wing talking heads accepted trump until he actually won. Now he's part of the Holy Trinity. "Stand by your man," that's how the song went...
They (most of them) were critical of him before the election- didn't think he was the best for the job, but were dead set against the alternative.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
They (most of them) were critical of him before the election- didn't think he was the best for the job, but were dead set against the alternative.
Look at the alternate republican candidates. Not like there were any really good choices. The last election was doomed and I hope to see that change for next year, but I doubt it.
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
Republican Party is returning to its roots albeit quietly and unnoticed by the masses.
That's funny. I see a bunch of R's previously critical of Trump, and correctly so, now beholden to his crazy base. Don't contradict Dear Leader or you'll get primaried and tarred on Twitter by the man himself. They thought he could be reined in by the adults in the room, but instead Trumpism metastasized and he's corrupted the Republican party beyond recognition. The modern R's have turned conservative orthodoxy on it's head. There are a few who still have some scruples, and as Trump becomes more and more nuts, more of them will come out against him.
 
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ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
Too old I tell ya...on cue, Bernie suspends campaign due to chest pain and ends up having a stent placed yesterday...he's too freakin' old to be president. Get well soon, Bernie, but please drop out.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Interesting perspectives. Most interesting to me is that both liberals and conservatives have exactly the same impression of the opposite party. Tell me again which side tries to "isolate and demonize" the other party. Who colluded with Russia? Who unduly influenced Ukraine? See what I mean?

While I'd love to inform you of information you don't hear from the networks, it wouldn't matter and it's not the purpose of this thread. Someone said we can't nail down strategy until we know the candidate. Chicken or egg? Do we think the candidate really defines the message, or the party? I'm not so sure. But all of what I considered reasonable proposals by Dem candidates are gone because those candidates are gone. The candidates that remain seem extreme to me, and I think they seem extreme to most of the country. Not just normal liberal, but extreme. And that is why I think Trump has already won.

As much as people may hate him, and us, the hate is all they have. Everything he does is within the law, much of which was defined by Democrats. A lot of what he does was supported by Democrats until he did it. Did you know his call to Ukraine was completely within the law AND INTENT of a treaty Obama signed with Ukraine guaranteeing each side would help the other investigate suspected corruption within their government?

I think Trump wins 2020 because most of America sees him taking actions, in spite of repeated, contradictory and fabricated sour-grapes roadblocks set by Democrats. I get it's a tough time for Democrats. We have the Supreme Court, and will likely have it for the next 20 years. This means Democrats will have to change law by actually changing the law, instead of having liberal judges do it from the court. There is a lot at stake. And I think Democrats have painted themselves into a corner, with no way out other than dirty tricks and fabrications.
You say that because the economy is doing great, the Democrats can't use that against Trump? Well, wait and see what all the new tariffs will do over the next few months.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/perspectives/china-tariffs-trade-war-trump/index.html

And, in breaking news, the WTO just approved US tariffs on European goods in retaliation for subsidies to Airbus. I wonder how that will affect American aerospace companies who supply 40% of Airbus' components? And, how long do you think it will take before counter-tariffs are brought in because of subsidies to Boeing? It's a rare occurrence when tariffs aren't counterproductive.

As for Ukraine issue, did you read the article I linked? Here let me help you - here's a quote:

"The Republican belief that their opposition is inherently illegitimate is one reason it does not matter to many Republicans that Trump’s allegations that Biden sought to get a Ukrainian prosecutor fired to prevent his son from being investigated are baseless. As CNN’s Daniel Dale has documented, there is no public evidence that Hunter Biden was ever himself under investigation; the prosecutor whose firing Biden called for as vice president was widely considered corrupt; the investigation Biden supposedly shut down was “dormant” at the time Biden expressed the view of the Obama administration that the prosecutor should be fired; and the reason world leaders, including Barack Obama, were demanding his firing in the first place was that he was failing to investigate corruption in Ukraine, not that he was being prevented from doing so. As my colleague David Graham writes, “Biden’s pressure to install a tougher prosecutor probably made it more likely, not less, that Burisma would be in the cross hairs.” Attempting to use one’s official powers for private gain is the most basic definition of corruption."

Blocking funds that had already been approved by Congress, unless Ukraine started an investigation of Biden, amounts to extortion. Allowing the funds to be paid on condition that the investigation proceeds, would amount to bribery - with public funds, no less. Of course, when the whistleblower submitted the complaint, the funds were released.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I would pass a manslaughter charge against her and forbid her to ever own a firearm again. Simple as that.
 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Spartan
They (most of them) were critical of him before the election- didn't think he was the best for the job, but were dead set against the alternative.
Ted Cruz wouldn't even congratulate him on national tv.
 
T

TankTop5

Audioholic Field Marshall
That's funny. I see a bunch of R's previously critical of Trump, and correctly so, now beholden to his crazy base. Don't contradict Dear Leader or you'll get primaried and tarred on Twitter by the man himself. They thought he could be reined in by the adults in the room, but instead Trumpism metastasized and he's corrupted the Republican party beyond recognition. The modern R's have turned conservative orthodoxy on it's head. There are a few who still have some scruples, and as Trump becomes more and more nuts, more of them will come out against him.
Some have been in the Party since running Bobby Kennedy out of LA in the sixties, and the primary is going very well thank you very much.


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Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I would pass a manslaughter charge against her and forbid her to ever own a firearm again. Simple as that.
Assuming you're talking about policewoman discussed earlier, unfortunately, the jury convicted her of murder, so the verdict could be overturned on appeal. Manslaughter was the right charge. Of course the same jury sentenced her to only ten years, and she'll be eligible for parole in five years, which is more like a manslaughter charge. Somewhat weird.

In the US, all convicted felons are prohibited from possessing a firearm of any type for life. Even for white collar crimes.
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
wait and see what all the new tariffs will do over the next few months.
So you think we should stay the course where countries put tariffs on our goods, but we don't put the same on theirs?

You think it's better to keep smoking because quitting is too painful?
 
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