tekton - the next big thing?

[ridikas]

I still have yet to see anyone present measurements for any of the Tekton speakers and I know you don't own the Pendragons.

I've posted very comprehensive measurements for the Pendragons in this thread that a very trusted poster at PE took. TLS Guy also posted some simulations of the same drivers, that he did himself. If you weren't so busy calling me a troll, you would have seen them.

The Pendragons actually measure very well, all things considered. They have good sensitivity, the power response/off-axis measurements are good, they have a very flat SPL, etc. They only really suffer in the bass, as ALL high sensitivity speakers do.

The Tekton owner/engineer uses measurements and thoughts behind his designs and it shows. While they are nowhere near the best products in their price category, they are not the worst either, not by far.

My issue was with the Zu speakers, which are just downright hideous. You can install those drivers without any crossover at all and they will measure just as bad. Virtually ZERO thought has been invested in their products, other than marketing.

I do agree with everything else you say. Not sure why you have such hate towards me.

 

[shadyJ]

Oh? What two terms (one objective and the other subjective) did I attempt to bring together?

I only see one term "good".

I've no interest in the speakers: I'm interested in application of the language.

You are conflating accuracy with goodness, and you are equivocating on the word "good". Good is entirely a matter of perspective, but accuracy looks the same from any angle.

 

[Send Margaritas]

... They only really suffer in the bass, as ALL high sensitivity speakers do.

Legacy's (focus HD) 95 SPL 20Hz–28kHz +/-2dB I could have walked out with a pair for 6K, but was in a Miata (and a year or so off from spending that much on new mains.)

 

[ridikas]

Legacy's (focus HD) 95 SPL 20Hz–28kHz +/-2dB I could have walked out with a pair for 6K, but was in a Miata (and a year or so off from spending that much on new mains.)

Do you have any evidence to support 20Hz at -2dB? Third party measurements? A 12" state of the art powered subwoofer from HSU, or SVS with a severe boost at 20Hz can't even do 20Hz at -2dB. The website lists 18-30K. They don't even know how to properly write the frequency response. 18 what? Hertz? At? -20dB? The Legacy guys are liars by omission.

 

[Send Margaritas]

They have 3rd party measurements on their website. (Which does list 18-30K). You're from Chicago too. You can hear them in the loop, and in Springfield.

BTW, they're not the best speakers they have. They're the ones I've had my eye on tho. Bring your laptop and mic.

 

[ridikas]

They have 3rd party measurements on their website. (Which does list 18-30K). You're from Chicago too. You can hear them in the loop, and in Springfield.

BTW, they're not the best speakers they have. They're the ones I've had my eye on tho. Bring your laptop and mic.

Can you link to the measurements? I'm not far from the loop. A laptop and mic cannot measure 20Hz inside of a room, nor can you even measure it in a real anechoic chamber. You have to do the measurements outdoors, in an open field. With the mic on the floor.

In order to hit 20Hz at -2dB and stay at a sensitivity of 95dB, the woofers would have to be 110dB+ in sensitivity, with a major baffle step in the crossover. Which would present other major problems. Impossible. Can only be done actively.

I can meet you and show you how to do quasi-anechoic measurements (200Hz and up), if the store owner allows it. You'll see how bad they really perform. If you want to invest in a Klippel, I can further show you how high in distortion their ribbons are.

P.S. I own a high end Sony laptop, RME Fireface 800 sound card, Dayton and Audix measurement mics, and LspCAD software.

 

[Send Margaritas]

Can you link to the measurements? I'm not far from the loop. A laptop and mic cannot measure 20Hz inside of a room, nor can you even measure it in a real anechoic chamber. You have to do the measurements outdoors, in an open field. With the mic on the floor.

In order to hit 20Hz at -2dB and stay at a sensitivity of 95dB, the woofers would have to be 110dB+ in sensitivity, with a major baffle step in the crossover. Which would present other major problems. Impossible. Can only be done actively.

I can meet you and show you how to do quasi-anechoic measurements (200Hz and up), if the store owner allows it. You'll see how bad they really perform. If you want to invest in a Klippel, I can further show you how high in distortion their ribbons are.

P.S. I own a high end Sony laptop, RME Fireface 800 sound card, Dayton and Audix measurement mics, and LspCAD software.

The only links I have are the ones listed in the reviews section of their website. (Edit, reviews are in the Details tab, there are several. Focus HD | Legacy Audio - Building the World's Finest Audio Systems ) I listed the more conservative of the numbers, from one of the reviews. I did see measurements in one of the reviews, but the images were small. I had brought a Clapton and Dire Straits SACD, they have decent bass, without a sub.

On how measurements are done, you're likely ahead of me. My only exposure to that is seeing a Dayton mic and the software that comes with it.

I do know the Focus HD(s) are 4 ways, and have an interesting crossover (6th order Mrs. Butterworth's or some such. ) They're reputed to need an amp that can handle low impedence.

They do have dual 12"(s), and go low. There was an earlier Focus that had three 12"(s) (two in the front, and one in the back).

I'm not saying they're the best speakers in the world. But they're nice, and sound as good as I've ever heard. I was looking at them, since they reminded me of my old 80's AR9(s), being a design with substantial drivers, more than being a similar design.

All that said, they're 95 DB SPL, with some very solid bass, which was my point.

 

[fuzz092888]

I've posted very comprehensive measurements for the Pendragons in this thread that a very trusted poster at PE took. TLS Guy also posted some simulations of the same drivers, that he did himself. If you weren't so busy calling me a troll, you would have seen them.

The Pendragons actually measure very well, all things considered. They have good sensitivity, the power response/off-axis measurements are good, they have a very flat SPL, etc. They only really suffer in the bass, as ALL high sensitivity speakers do.

The Tekton owner/engineer uses measurements and thoughts behind his designs and it shows. While they are nowhere near the best products in their price category, they are not the worst either, not by far.

My issue was with the Zu speakers, which are just downright hideous. You can install those drivers without any crossover at all and they will measure just as bad. Virtually ZERO thought has been invested in their products, other than marketing.

I do agree with everything else you say. Not sure why you have such hate towards me.

I have no hate towards whatsoever. I merely disagree with the manner in which you conduct your arguments much of the time and the verbiage that you use to make some of your points.

 

[JerryLove]

So you trust a graph to tell you if you like a speaker over your ears?

No. I trust a graph, at least from a known source, to be impartial and not suffering from psychosomatic effects.

I use a series of graphs and plots, in addition to the stories of other ears and in addition to the discussion of principles to determine what warrants further investigation.

 

[JerryLove]

You are conflating accuracy with goodness, and you are equivocating on the word "good". Good is entirely a matter of perspective, but accuracy looks the same from any angle.

I merely asked if an inaccurate firearm could be a "good gun".

 

[shadyJ]

I merely asked if an inaccurate firearm could be a "good gun".

The answer is yes.

 

[JerryLove]

The answer is yes.

Then so could a speaker which makes no sound what-so-ever.

Now tell me how the word "good" is at all useful in discussing something, given that a non-functional speaker could be said to "sound good" ?

 

[shadyJ]

lol, well it might look good! That would certainly be enough for many people.
Like I said, good is a purely subjective value judgement, but I know you understand this. It has nothing to do with accurate or even functioning. You seem to be holding on to some kind of platonic ideal where good is an absolute outside of human opinion.

 

[JerryLove]

You seem to be holding on to some kind of platonic ideal where good is an absolute outside of human opinion.

I'm not holding on to anything. You are welcome to define "good" however you like; and I am discussing with you your definition.

If a completely non-functional speaker can be accurately said to "sound good" or "be a good speaker", then what functional use is the word "good" in a discussion?.

 

[shadyJ]

Lol this is so far off-topic that if you want to discuss this further, lets take the discussion of the word 'good' to the off topic message board. We have done enough damage to an already wildly veering thread. I will just re-iterate that good has nothing to do with anything outside of a mind. The original disagreement was whether X speaker were good. Person A said X speakers were not good because they measured poorly. Person B said X speakers are good because the experience of listening to them was enjoyable. Neither opinion is incorrect because the word 'good' is a subjective value judgement; everyone has their own metric by which they judge goodness This doesn't mean the word 'good' is useless, of course, if you know someone who measure of goodness is much like your own, then it would benefit you to heed their advice. All I am saying is you would be in error to describe something as good outside of an opinion, as that is a value judgement, and there is no outside arbiter of value beyond our own foggy minds.

 

[jm78]

I merely asked if an inaccurate firearm could be a "good gun".

Hmm, I think a weapon could be inaccurate, unreliable, and still be good for the right situation.

Let's say that its a huge gun, that when it works and hits, it blows anything away. There could be some use of this type of weapon.

Imagine your in battle and your enemy busts out a ginormous weapon, ready to fire, and you just hope that is malfunctions or misses the mark. If it hits, then goodnight.

 

[ImcLoud]

This thread is F#<king trashed, has nothing to do with Tekton at all now, its just an orgy of bull sh!t slinging rodeo clowns, who gives a F#<K at this point, I could see if there was some kind of end in sight, or if anyone here was in the market for a high eff. $2500 tower set, but no one here has any intention of spending that kind of scratch- so who cares... It is painfull to read through this garbage...

Heres the facts-
the Pendragons measure OK, not terrible but not as good as other speakers in the price range, if you are in the market and don't want to be a sheep or lemming following the crowd buy them and be a little different, if you are in the market for something that is ultra accurate and whatever else other speakers are then look somewhere else, this thread offers so little constructive information about the product it is sickening...
You have very few guys that have heard the product, or own the product getting shot down by a bunch of guys that have no intentions on hearing or owning the product {unless its free} that at this point its aggravating to even visit the thread, because every time its going to be some douche saying something douchey, present company included

But anyway, good luck, this thread is useless and all who post after this should be drown in cat pi$$ and set aflame..

 

[fuzz092888]

...some douche saying something douchey, present company included

But anyway, good luck, this thread is useless and all who post after this should be drown in cat pi$$ and set aflame..

Hmm check.

Not sure that cat piss is conducive to fire, but I'm game.

 

[ratso]

This thread is F#<king trashed, has nothing to do with Tekton at all now, its just an orgy of bull sh!t slinging rodeo clowns, who gives a F#<K at this point, I could see if there was some kind of end in sight, or if anyone here was in the market for a high eff. $2500 tower set, but no one here has any intention of spending that kind of scratch- so who cares... It is painfull to read through this garbage...

Heres the facts-
the Pendragons measure OK, not terrible but not as good as other speakers in the price range, if you are in the market and don't want to be a sheep or lemming following the crowd buy them and be a little different, if you are in the market for something that is ultra accurate and whatever else other speakers are then look somewhere else, this thread offers so little constructive information about the product it is sickening...
You have very few guys that have heard the product, or own the product getting shot down by a bunch of guys that have no intentions on hearing or owning the product {unless its free} that at this point its aggravating to even visit the thread, because every time its going to be some douche saying something douchey, present company included

But anyway, good luck, this thread is useless and all who post after this should be drown in cat pi$$ and set aflame..

this has compelled me to type something i never ever type because i hate it (but i really don't think i have a choice here):

LOL

 

[cpp]

Then so could a speaker which makes no sound what-so-ever.

Now tell me how the word "good" is at all useful in discussing something, given that a non-functional speaker could be said to "sound good" ?

Maybe the word is marginal, or acceptable