tekton - the next big thing?

[fuzz092888]

I don't think this is a matter of proof. It's just a basic misunderstanding. Of course real music isn't "flat." It will almost never have equal energy across the spectrum. At least I hope not. That would make for some pretty boring material. But speakers have to be flat to replicate whatever the real frequency distribution was. Speakers reproduce music. They don't produce it.

Which is why I asked for proof

It was pretty clear from what he said that he didn't understand what everyone else meant when they talked about having a flat frequency curve, so I had hoped asking for proof of what he was talking about would then shed some light on the subject for him.

 

[JerryLove]

If you record a Clarinet playing a G, and the speaker produces an Oboe playing an F, it's a bad speaker.

If you like oboes more than clarinets, you may like the speaker.

There is certainly more to a speaker than the FR curve (curves actually: if you aren't examining off-axis, you are looking only at the best case); and there are certainly distortions people like (hence over-driven tube-amps); but they remain inferior reproductions.

Also: If you just love a +6db hump at 2.5khz; you can add that to a flat speaker with EQ. The reverse is not necessarily true.

Then again: Perhaps some people prefer tape cassettes too. They are still inferior to SACDs.

 

[fuzz092888]

Of course speakers need to be as flat and neutral as possible.

You and I like the sound of natural instruments, and singers without amplification via a microphone stuffed down their epiglottis, amplifying a weedy nasal voice.

Now there is a a respondent on this thread who wants it to sound live, and I have to assume since he has a liking for "certain" speakers he means a rock concert.

Now instrument and vocal speakers used by bands are perfectly dreadful and if anything have lost ground in the last half century, when Altec Lansing, JBL and Klipsch were pre-eminent.

When the CD or what ever is produced it is laid down from the mix desk and not from the awful PA speakers. So I suppose there are some who want to experience the sound of a live rock concert. The only way to do that would be via a nasty harsh shouty speaker. I have a suspicion that is the only reason those speakers have a market.

The notion that you don't need science or measurement to produce good speakers is way off base. I remember a time when we had little science and no T/S parameters. I can assure you we wasted a lot of wood and glue. Even our best lucky shots, fell far short of what we can do now.

See this is where a few guys on this board lose me, If the speaker sounds good to the buyer, that is all that matters, I think if all he has is ears and a brain he will be better at picking which speakers he likes than you a mic and some graphs?

Maybe with the parts that would stir the emotional side of things removed TLS Guy's response would make more sense to you, because he is exactly right. From my point of view, buy what you like, but understand that what you like cannot, from a scientific standpoint cannot accurately reproduce "noises". If a speaker measures ruler flat within its operating frequency range, it means that anything within that range is reproduced as closely to if it actually occurred in front of you. A speaker that doesn't measure flat is probably that way because it's trying to fill a niche. I'm not saying anything about Tekton or any other brand, but those are facts. If, for instance, the Tekton Mlores that you have have an accentuated upper register, than certain instruments will sound different than if you actually had a musician sitting in front of you playing that instrument and so on and so forth for any noises in movies or TV that they try to reproduce.

I'm not saying throw the science away, but leave that to the builders, the listeners need to let their ears decide...

If the builders are building an inherently flawed design, why shouldn't the listeners be made aware of that? Like I said in an earlier post, buy what you like, but be aware of its limitations. Personally, I want to know if a builder isn't striving for an accurate speaker because it speaks to the competence and/or motive of the builder. Maybe the builder holds the same opinion as you and does everything by ear. The problem with doing things by ear are that you won't get replicable results.

The Lores I bought sound different than other speakers I have heard, I enjoy them with live tracks and most rock bands... I seen Bruce live many times, and when I want to relive that, the lores are the only speakers I have that come close...
Are they super flat? maybe not
but do they do what I paid for them to do, which was sound accurate and loud with little power? YES

Live rock concerts, by their very nature, sound very far from accurate sound. That's fine if you want all your music to sound like it's live like that, but that's probably only good if you aren't using them for anything else. If you love live rock and buy speakers that excel at reproducing a "live rock" sound, then they're not going to be very good at playing classical, or softer music. If you take those speakers and play some classical music on them, then go to the orchestra I they won't sound like the live orchestra whatsoever. However, if you listen to that same classical music on accurate speakers, they will sound much more like the live orchestra.

I'll also mention, you don't need to spend thousands of dollars on speakers if you want ones that sound like a live rock concert. You're basically paying for fancy cabinet work and little else. Again, I'm not picking out any one brand, but in general I think that statement will ring pretty true.

And I would't let anyone on this board or anyone in general show me a graph to convince me they sound bad...

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not saying anything sounds bad....to you. I'm saying a speaker that isn't accurate is useless for me and for many others on this board. I want what I hear to sound like what the mixer heard or what it would sound like live. I want a box falling to sound like a box falling, a phone ringing like a phone ringing, a human voice like the person were standing in front of me reciting his or her lines. An inaccurate speaker, by the laws of physics, cannot ever do that.

I know this is an audiophile board, and some poeple take pride in being anal with the numbers, which is fine, but I wouldn't try to convince someone to sell their speakers because the graphs are not what you want to see...

Well you're listening to a well known troll so that's your own fault

A professional chef would probably say chocolate covered bacon will not taste good but it is in fact delicious...

Not a fair comparison per se, since there are no scientific and physical laws that dictate what constitutes accurate taste. Taste is subjective, what the food or drink is composed of is objective, but there is no baseline measure with which to compare any food or drink to, other than maybe poisonous items. Hearing is subjective, sound is objective. Accuracy in sound is completely quantifiable, ergo, any analogy would have to have some objective baseline with which the other half of the analogy can be compared to.

 

[ahblaza]

Here, I'll write it again for you...

The speakers in question are garbage performance wise = FACT.

The speakers in question sound good to the buyers in question = Their OPINION.

Is that more clear?

Does the measured color of the chicklets in you signature going from dark red to a lighter orange denote that you're starting to sound better? Do we need more proof to confirm that...................

 

[shadyJ]

There would be less disagreement here if we got the terms straight. Good or bad are value judgments, whereas accurate and inaccurate have an objective basis. If someone likes an inaccurate speaker, that speaker is good- to that particular listener. And bad to someone who prefers accuracy. Isn't that crazy!? It would be if we were all the same exact person (hmmm, I wonder). Also I may have started a new religion in that last sentence. Anyway, now our problem is solved, we can move on now.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

There would be less disagreement here if we got the terms straight. Good or bad are value judgments, whereas accurate and inaccurate have an objective basis. If someone likes an inaccurate speaker, that speaker is good- to that particular listener. And bad to someone who prefers accuracy. Isn't that crazy!? It would be if we were all the same exact person (hmmm, I wonder). Also I may have started a new religion in that last sentence. Anyway, now our problem is solved, we can move on now.

I don't have any problem with that. I was just trying to address what I thought was an invalid propostion--that live music does't have a flat frequency response, so speakers shouldn't either. By the way, what is this thread about, anyhow? I kind of forget.

 

[TLS Guy]

I don't have any problem with that. I was just trying to address what I thought was an invalid propostion--that live music does't have a flat frequency response, so speakers shouldn't either. By the way, what is this thread about, anyhow? I kind of forget.

The thread was basically this. You can take a couple of stock 10" paper coned woofers, and put three tweeters in line between them, soup it up with auto paint and have a better speaker than a B & W 800D.

I think that was the premise and basis of the thread.

 

[Swerd]

The thread was basically this. You can take a couple of stock 10" paper coned woofers, and put three tweeters in line between them, soup it up with auto paint and have a better speaker than a B & W 800D.

I think that was the premise and basis of the thread.

You forgot to mention the part about the $700 crossover "upgrade" with oil filled/silver foil capacitors.

 

[fuzz092888]

You forgot to mention the part about the $700 crossover "upgrade" with oil filled/silver foil capacitors.

I'm just curious to see if this AH Tekton review ever surfaces. Given that a company has the right to veto any negative review, it will be interesting to see if these speakers

A) live up to the hype (I honestly hope they aren't total crap)
B) have designers with some backbone (in the case that they are total crap)

If the review never surfaces I guess we have all the answers we'll ever need, but I sure would rather have a review come out, good or bad.

 

[JerryLove]

There would be less disagreement here if we got the terms straight. Good or bad are value judgments, whereas accurate and inaccurate have an objective basis.

So if I have a firearm that is inaccurate and jams often, but I like it, then it is a "good gun"?

 

[Send Margaritas]

So if I have a firearm that is inaccurate and jams often, but I like it, then it is a "good gun"?

No, it's a 'trade-in'. Get a Smith & Wesson. Off-axis frequency response means little in that example, however.

 

[TLS Guy]

You forgot to mention the part about the $700 crossover "upgrade" with oil filled/silver foil capacitors.

Thanks for reminding me about the snake oil components!

 

[ImcLoud]

So if I have a firearm that is inaccurate and jams often, but I like it, then it is a "good gun"?

Obviously you never owned a Tec 9, inaccurate and jams at least 1 in 30, but its a good gun, now good for what, not to trust your life to, but to fire around and at the range while listening to rap music PERFECT....

Anyway, I dont own the pendragons, I have heard them and they sounded good to me, would I pay what they are asking, nope.. But the lores I bought I fell in love with, granted they are a squared box with 1 10" eminence speaker and an audex tweeter with a couple front ports, but it works, it is so loud with m 40w tube amp I cant turn it up 15% for normal listening, then when I want to blast caveman levels, they sound clear with no distortion...

And Ill be honest it gets old reading posts from people that never heard them have such strong opinions about them... Never mind that ID businesses are mostly fed through this type of forum and word of mouth, you are costing someone money with no personal experience. Just a B I T C H move, how can you be that bored?
And I understand people that frequent these forums obviously don't have much better to do, even me, rite now I am wrapped up from my neck to my wrist so I am not out working, instead I'm running my businesses from a desk, where normally I'm in the field running things from my cell phone out of my trucks {my business philosophy= why pay a tech $26 per hour for something I can do my self? One less $54,000 salary puts the money in my pocket, not to mention tax matching, health care, comp insurance, ect 1 MPF costs me almost $80K per year!!! And I employ 4!!! I just got a little sick, Ill stop talking about work lol}....
Anywho, I invite anyone in the area to come by and take a listen to my tekton system, its simple, I run a d1 to a jolida 202 tube amp that powers the lores in my 28' X 20' bedroom, so nothing super expensive or super high end, and it sounds awesome-

I paid under $2000 for the complete setup and it looks good too, lets not throw that out, the speakers have a different look to them, my 500+ sq ft bedroom, that my wife paid thousands of dollars to decorate {I wrote a $1200 check for window treatments 1 room!!!} fits them well, the glow of the tube amp on its black walnut stand, they just look classy....

But what ever, this is honestly the only forum I have ever seen a bad word said about any tekton product, here's a tip, for anyone who doesn't care what the graphs say {although no one has even come up with a bad measurement}, read what people that paid $1000+ for these speakers have to say, they have ears that let them know how something sounds, I trust them ears more than a microphone...

And take my word for it, I understand flat speakers, I understand that to accurately reproduce something, you have to introduce as little outside influence as possible, I get it... But when I'm listening to "live" music I just want it to sound good, like I'm there... And from the beginning I have said, I have never seen a speaker do it better, it plays normal tracks very well also, but live tracks are epic though my lores... Now, I have the funds and the space to get a system just for live music, I actually have a separate 3.1 in my bedroom hooked to the tv. I am embarrassed saying this, but I have almost a dozen sound systems in my house- garage/gym/guest room parlor/front parlor/living room/upstairs loft/2 in master/whole house systems in and out/ office system/ guest bedroom/plus the kids rooms.... Not counting the 5 speakers I would like to sell that aren't hooked to anything... Plus today I bought a 1010i sub for no real reason...
I have been really bored since I hurt my shoulder...

 

[shadyJ]

So if I have a firearm that is inaccurate and jams often, but I like it, then it is a "good gun"?

If you like it, then to you it is good. It is also probably good to the dude you are shooting at, well at least it's preferable to him than a perfectly functioning gun. You are still trying to conflate subjective and objective terms here.

 

[fuzz092888]

Anyway, I dont own the pendragons, I have heard them and they sounded good to me, would I pay what they are asking, nope.. But the lores I bought I fell in love with, granted they are a squared box with 1 10" eminence speaker and an audex tweeter with a couple front ports, but it works, it is so loud with m 40w tube amp I cant turn it up 15% for normal listening, then when I want to blast caveman levels, they sound clear with no distortion...

There are quite a few high efficiency speakers that also measure well that will do this same thing. They also look a bit different. All anyone sane person is saying is that the Tektons produce a lot more questions than they do answers. Based on what the designer himself has said and the almost deliberate lack of measurements, leads people to ask questions and certainly gives them pause.

And Ill be honest it gets old reading posts from people that never heard them have such strong opinions about them... Never mind that ID businesses are mostly fed through this type of forum and word of mouth, you are costing someone money with no personal experience. Just a B I T C H move, how can you be that bored?

So rather than B I T C H back, take some simple measurements with your many funds or get somebody to do it and give all those who you say are doing that thing and put the matter to bed. Three decent measurements would help prove to many members that the designer and builders are competent and lend a lot more credibility to the Pendragons.

And I understand people that frequent these forums obviously don't have much better to do

Hmm back handed insult?

I paid under $2000 for the complete setup and it looks good too, lets not throw that out, the speakers have a different look to them, my 500+ sq ft bedroom, that my wife paid thousands of dollars to decorate {I wrote a $1200 check for window treatments 1 room!!!} fits them well, the glow of the tube amp on its black walnut stand, they just look classy....

For a guy who constantly states how much money he has, about $100 bucks worth of measurement equipment and REW could end a whole lot of speculation.

But what ever, this is honestly the only forum I have ever seen a bad word said about any tekton product, here's a tip, for anyone who doesn't care what the graphs say {although no one has even come up with a bad measurement}, read what people that paid $1000+ for these speakers have to say, they have ears that let them know how something sounds, I trust them ears more than a microphone...

Because this place cares about design and measurements, and because no one here is willing to spend a few thousand on an untested, untried, giant question mark. As a staunch defender of the products, I say again, put the matter to rest and take a few measurements. The whole process will probably take about an hour. 30 mins to figure out how to work REW and 30 mins to measure, move the mic, measure, move the mic, measure, move the mic, measure, and then upload the graphs.

And take my word for it, I understand flat speakers, I understand that to accurately reproduce something, you have to introduce as little outside influence as possible, I get it... But when I'm listening to "live" music I just want it to sound good, like I'm there... And from the beginning I have said, I have never seen a speaker do it better, it plays normal tracks very well also, but live tracks are epic though my lores... Now, I have the funds and the space to get a system just for live music, I actually have a separate 3.1 in my bedroom hooked to the tv. I am embarrassed saying this, but I have almost a dozen sound systems in my house- garage/gym/guest room parlor/front parlor/living room/upstairs loft/2 in master/whole house systems in and out/ office system/ guest bedroom/plus the kids rooms.... Not counting the 5 speakers I would like to sell that aren't hooked to anything... Plus today I bought a 1010i sub for no real reason...
I have been really bored since I hurt my shoulder...

Again, for someone who is successful and to which I equate much competence, and with so much obvious wealth you are in a unique position to not only take measurements, but also to get the pendragons yourself and return them. I'm sure eating the shipping fees wouldn't mean all that much to you, but at the very least measure the ones you already have.

Since you're hurt and have time on your hands to sit around at home on this forum, which by your own admission means you have nothing better to do, now is the perfect time to make use of that time and contribute something truly useful to this thread.

 

[ImcLoud]

I have no real interest in the measurements themselves. And I dont own the pendragons, or want them, there are many more speakers in that price range that interest me over the pends, an office I frequent has them in the waiting room hooked to some small 3 watt amplifiers, they sound good... And the lores {which I do own} already have measurements on the web somewhere...

I was very close to ordering the measurement equipment form PE, but then I risk turning into one of the "graph gurus", and I can't bring myself to do it... I spoke with someone from pe, and he told me that if I'm not trying to address a specific problem in my system related to placement or treatments not to bother with the technical side, which makes sense, why spend time measuring and analyzing graphs when I can be playing the speakers I enjoy, or hanging out with my family....

And I my "many funds" weren't accrued by spending money on things that have no use to me, or by spending money to ship speakers clear across the country... Eric sounds like he does just fine with out me measuring his speakers, and I imagine this one thread isn't hurting him much, since there are plenty that praise the product...

As far as my time to "sit around at home on this forum", 90% of the time I am at my office or in my truck now at home, still have a handful of businesses to run...

I apologize for mentioning my finances, I don't consider myself wealthy, and find most of the people I meet on these boards and in the audiophile hobby are wealthy. I'm in the middle class bracket, not rich by any means... Most people spending a few thousand on a stereo system I would imagine are middle class, as am I....

Fuzz, I'm not trying to start an argument with you, what would I get out of that, you are entitled to think what you want to think, no issues there... but my simple points were..
The tektons I own sound good, I think so as did everyone that has heard them in my home {some people with nice gear that know their stuff} {and a few have purchased tektons after hearing mine}, do you have a speaker that more than 3 people heard in your house and went and dropped -+$1000 on with in a few days???
Don't bad mouth a company that you have no history with, its just not how things should be done... This guy is running a company to support his family, and this thread may have swayed people to look elsewhere that most likely would have been happy with the purchase, since like I previously said NO ONE HAS COMPLAINED ABOUT THE PRODUCTS EVER!!!! Even Eric told me he hasn't gotten any complaints...

I don't know why I am getting aggravated about this but I am, maybe because its 1 am and I still have 2 techs on the road doing service calls, and can't go to bed until they sign out for the night. But what ever it is, I'm not the one with a problem with the product, I'm happy with the purchase, and I like the speakers a lot..

Just sucks that people can be so close minded, if you have enough concern to post here, you buy a set of speakers and test them. But I promise it wont change how my speakers sound over here...

 

[JerryLove]

If you like it, then to you it is good. It is also probably good to the dude you are shooting at, well at least it's preferable to him than a perfectly functioning gun. You are still trying to conflate subjective and objective terms here.

Oh? What two terms (one objective and the other subjective) did I attempt to bring together?

I only see one term "good".

I've no interest in the speakers: I'm interested in application of the language.

 

[JerryLove]

read what people that paid $1000+ for these speakers have to say, they have ears that let them know how something sounds, I trust them ears more than a microphone...

Without personal knowledge of the person attached to those ears; that's likely a mistake.

One of the topics on which AH was founded was separating snake-oil from reality. If you don't think people claim to hear the difference between wires on the floor and wires up on wooden blocks, you've not been reading.

I don't hear a difference. Measurements don't find a difference. Most importantly to their claim: they cannot identify the difference when they cannot see which setup they are looking at.

I learned long ago not to trust ears unless there were a lot of pairs of them and more than a few belonged to people I already understood their evaluating tendencies.

Of course we can and do look for ourselves. I've put in quite an effort to try out as much as possible. I've listened to omnipolar, and dipolar, and planar, and time-coherent. I've listened to completely sealed, ported, horn loaded, and transmission lines. I've listened to linear arrays, non-linear arrays, TMW, MTWW, MTM, WMTMW, etc. I've listened to speakers made of cast marble, of concrete, of steel.

But you know, I can't just go listen to everything (as fun as that sounds); and I use criteria to determine what I will listen to. We can't all listen to everything we might have to render an opinion on (sad as that is)... and it turns out that there are certain things you *can* tell from measurements... at least every time so far that we've tried.

I have put my time and my money where my mouth is; and I've learned not to trust other people's ears.

 

[ImcLoud]

Without personal knowledge of the person attached to those ears; that's likely a mistake.

One of the topics on which AH was founded was separating snake-oil from reality. If you don't think people claim to hear the difference between wires on the floor and wires up on wooden blocks, you've not been reading.

I don't hear a difference. Measurements don't find a difference. Most importantly to their claim: they cannot identify the difference when they cannot see which setup they are looking at.

I learned long ago not to trust ears unless there were a lot of pairs of them and more than a few belonged to people I already understood their evaluating tendencies.

Of course we can and do look for ourselves. I've put in quite an effort to try out as much as possible. I've listened to omnipolar, and dipolar, and planar, and time-coherent. I've listened to completely sealed, ported, horn loaded, and transmission lines. I've listened to linear arrays, non-linear arrays, TMW, MTWW, MTM, WMTMW, etc. I've listened to speakers made of cast marble, of concrete, of steel.

But you know, I can't just go listen to everything (as fun as that sounds); and I use criteria to determine what I will listen to. We can't all listen to everything we might have to render an opinion on (sad as that is)... and it turns out that there are certain things you *can* tell from measurements... at least every time so far that we've tried.

I have put my time and my money where my mouth is; and I've learned not to trust other people's ears.

So you trust a graph to tell you if you like a speaker over your ears?
Ill have to pick this up over the weekend, last truck just left the shop all employees are off the clock and I can go to sleep... so good night, just shy of 2am....

 

[fuzz092888]

I have no real interest in the measurements themselves. And I dont own the pendragons, or want them, there are many more speakers in that price range that interest me over the pends, an office I frequent has them in the waiting room hooked to some small 3 watt amplifiers, they sound good... And the lores {which I do own} already have measurements on the web somewhere...

I still have yet to see anyone present measurements for any of the Tekton speakers and I know you don't own the Pendragons.

I was very close to ordering the measurement equipment form PE, but then I risk turning into one of the "graph gurus", and I can't bring myself to do it... I spoke with someone from pe, and he told me that if I'm not trying to address a specific problem in my system related to placement or treatments not to bother with the technical side, which makes sense, why spend time measuring and analyzing graphs when I can be playing the speakers I enjoy, or hanging out with my family....

The PE kit is much more than you would need to spend on measurement stuff. Basically all you need is a microphone and a cord, which could be had for under $50 as long as you don't need an external soudcard, but even then, for under $100. Also as I mentioned the whole measuring process takes about an hour and that's only because you'd have to learn some basic settings in REW. For someone who knows how to use REW, 3-5 measurements would take about 20 mins on the high end. I hardly think that is the major time investment you seem to be making it out to be. You've spent much more than that on this forum tonight and you could've been taking the measurements as you were on the forum

And I my "many funds" weren't accrued by spending money on things that have no use to me, or by spending money to ship speakers clear across the country... Eric sounds like he does just fine with out me measuring his speakers, and I imagine this one thread isn't hurting him much, since there are plenty that praise the product...

No one's saying he doesn't. I'm not telling you that you should pay to have them shipped across the country, only mentioning that the price of return shipping is a pretty small amount compared to the numbers you toss around fairly often. Also, you readily admit to spending money on things you don't use or need so your first sentence isn't true, or is at least contradictory to your earlier actions and statements.

As far as my time to "sit around at home on this forum", 90% of the time I am at my office or in my truck now at home, still have a handful of businesses to run...

You may do as you wish with your time, but the actual time commitment that a single on axis measurement takes is minimal at best. Anyone who has done it before will tell you that it doesn't have to be a long affair.

1. Download REW
2. Connect hardware
3. Make sure hardware works with REW
4. Run sweep while holding mic at 1m level with tweeter
5. Post graph

So simple even I can do it

I apologize for mentioning my finances, I don't consider myself wealthy, and find most of the people I meet on these boards and in the audiophile hobby are wealthy. I'm in the middle class bracket, not rich by any means... Most people spending a few thousand on a stereo system I would imagine are middle class, as am I....

Perhaps, perhaps not. The middle class encounters a fairly wide range of incomes, not to mention the vast differences in cost of living across the country.

Fuzz, I'm not trying to start an argument with you, what would I get out of that, you are entitled to think what you want to think, no issues there... but my simple points were..

Nor I you

The tektons I own sound good, I think so as did everyone that has heard them in my home {some people with nice gear that know their stuff} {and a few have purchased tektons after hearing mine}, do you have a speaker that more than 3 people heard in your house and went and dropped -+$1000 on with in a few days???

No one is arguing that. However, unless they're AB'ed against a known quantity by said people or have measurements posted, then it is pure speculation for those of us who can't hear them. Since hearing is so subjective, I can't take your word for it, or anyone elses. However I know, in general, what I type of speaker I like because I know how the ones I like that I've heard measure.

Don't bad mouth a company that you have no history with, its just not how things should be done... This guy is running a company to support his family, and this thread may have swayed people to look elsewhere that most likely would have been happy with the purchase, since like I previously said NO ONE HAS COMPLAINED ABOUT THE PRODUCTS EVER!!!! Even Eric told me he hasn't gotten any complaints...

First of all your putting words in my mouth saying I did any such thing. That is blatantly false to say otherwise. Second of all saying no one has complained isn't a valid measure of...well anything. What is the technical knowledge of those who have bought and listened to the speakers? Were they heard or AB'ed against any others or were people merely going on acoustic memory? Etc, etc, etc. I'm sorry, but asking me to take the words of strangers at face value is, IMHO ludicrous when thousands of dollars are being spent. I have no doubt his customers are happy, I'm not arguing that you or they are happy. I'm asking, and many other users (although some not so politely) are asking for objective data so the the subjective data that we already have can be reconciled. The point you're missing is that no one, to my knowledge is disputing your satisfaction (other than the troll), but trying to see what it is that you're liking. They/we want to know if you like a well designed speaker with a flat FR that can be compared to other such speakers, or if the Tektons are more of a niche fulfilling speaker. IMHO, neither makes them bad per se, but the latter would make it something I wouldn't personally be interested in, while the former would make it interesting.

I don't know why I am getting aggravated about this but I am, maybe because its 1 am and I still have 2 techs on the road doing service calls, and can't go to bed until they sign out for the night. But what ever it is, I'm not the one with a problem with the product, I'm happy with the purchase, and I like the speakers a lot..

Just sucks that people can be so close minded, if you have enough concern to post here, you buy a set of speakers and test them. But I promise it wont change how my speakers sound over here...

Me either, probably has something to do with not being able to go to sleep

So go be happy with them and click ignore on those who cause the aggravation, myself included if that be the case. I'll be the first to say, if you love what you've got, f*&@ everyone else I'm just here looking for answers to a few questions I have based on insatiable curiosity, nothing more or less.

I have questions, but none necessitating a purchase of a speaker that neither aesthetically pleases me, nor has any objective data. Just curiosity. For Pendragon money I have my eyes (yes both, not just one ) on something I find much much more interesting.

Cheers.