tekton - the next big thing?

[ImcLoud]

I think the Tekton Pendragon cost a lot more to ship than the Lores. I would get the restocking fee waiver in writing first.

But, if you are happy with them, that's all that matters. They look too boxy for me, though. It would have been more interesting if they used curved cabinets. But if you are happy, that's great. No need to please anyone else, but yourself and your family.

Anyone interested should get the no restocking fees policy in writing since I was told the 15% restocking fees for the $2500 Pendragon is $375 and shipping is $200 one way due to the large size and weight, so $375 + $200 + $200 = $775.

Your the consumer by rite, you can most likely get the entire cost if the speakers are misrepresented as has been said in this thread... People dont realise that there credit cards give them a huge advantage over the seller... You can simply file a grievance and 99% of the time as long as you are not scamming someone, you will be refunded as long as the merch is returned... I went through this with a custom chome company, I sent out 13 peices to get chromed and when they came back they were terrible... I called them and they didnt want to redo the job, I took them to a local shop {who I usually use, but lost there DEM permits for a while} just to make sure I wasnt being too picky, and they agreed it was a hack job, I then returned the few peices I bought from them and asked for a refund they tried to charge me 40 percent restock, so I called discover and explained the entire story, they refunded 100% plus the cost to ship the items back, then they did an investigation took about a week and I never heard back from them... Just the chromer called to tell me I was a jerk.. Although I still lost it cost me to have them stripped before they could be redone.

Anyway, I have a habit of getting off topic sorry..

 

[Steve81]

hrm? That's conjecture... read the following:

http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20120927/12206.pdf

One problem with the study that jumps out at me: one might note that the group of "untrained listeners" wasn't exactly some random group of rabble.

The 268 listeners were categorized according to their occupations...The first category (AR) was comprised of 215 audio equipment retailers, ranging from small privately owned boutiques to large audio retail chains located across North America...The second group (S) consisted of 14 university students from two California universities. One group (CALP) consisted of undergraduate electrical/mechanical engineering students with an interest in audio engineering....The third group (MS) consisted of field arketing andsales people within Harman Consumer Group (HCG) and JBL Professional (JBL). This group had relatively more professional audio experience in evaluating sound quality compared to the students. However, none were members of the Harman-trained listening panel, and they had little experience in controlled listening tests. This group consisted of 21 listeners, or 7.8% of the sample size.

Color me not shocked that this particular selection of the populace might have similar tastes to the "trained" panel. Take a 268 random untrained college students, and my bet is a boom and sizzle wins the day.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

hrm? That's conjecture... read the following:

http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20120927/12206.pdf

Okay, I was too lazy to read everything.

So the 2 pr of speakers that were most preferred had the most extended bass. The speakers with the least bass (electrostatic - probably Martin Logan or Magnepan) did the worse on preference score.

Why didn't they use dual subwoofers and XO all speakers to 120Hz or something to completely remove the bass from the equation?

 

[Steve81]

Okay, I was too lazy to read everything.

You're not alone

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Take a 268 random untrained college students, and my bet is a boom and sizzle wins the day.

Depends if they are male vs female.

Most women I know don't like the same amount of bass that most guys do (that I know).

You don't see many girls driving trucks with the boom boom down the streets either.

My wife and 2 daughters don't like bass all that much. They like some amount, but not like me.

And some guys don't like all that bass either.

Bass is indeed a huge factor in overall preference. I think it is totally unfair to compare one speaker that is flat to 30Hz with a speaker that is only flat to 80Hz.

 

[Steve81]

Depends if they are male vs female.

Most women I know don't like the same amount of bass that most guys do (that I know).

You don't see many girls driving trucks with the boom boom down the streets either.

True enough. Of course, most women I know think I'm batsh1t crazy for having something beyond a Bose system (or just TV speakers in the case of my mother in law) anyway, so where does that take us?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

True enough. Of course, most women I know think I'm batsh1t crazy for having something beyond a Bose system (or just TV speakers in the case of my mother in law) anyway, so where does that take us?

Enjoy the music and movies. Relax.

PPP.

Pure Personal Preference.

My brother and his electrical engineer friends think Bose is great. So what if Bose sounds great to them?

Just a hobby. Just a hobby. Not treating patients or building bridges.

Enjoy the music and movies. Relax.

 

[GranteedEV]

Bass is indeed a huge factor in overall preference. I think it is totally unfair to compare one speaker that is flat to 30Hz with a speaker that is only flat to 80Hz.

Yet it's fair to sell one speaker that is flat to 30hz and one that is only flat to 80hz?

Color me not shocked that this particular selection of the populace might have similar tastes to the "trained" panel. Take a 268 random untrained college students, and my bet is a boom and sizzle wins the day.

That wasn't what the paper drew though. It drew that the less trained listeners were just mostly more pleased by all the speakers - this includes the students as noted:

If we assume that the scale is interpreted the same
between the different categories of listeners, the students
were generally the most pleased with the sound quality of
the loudspeakers, whereas the trained listeners, on average
found more things to complain about

as far as students go, here's another sean olive excerpt from his blog regrading younger generations:

When comparing the student's rank ordering of the loudspeakers to those of the trained Harman listeners (slide 27), we see good agreement between the two groups. The one exception is Loudspeaker C, which the trained listeners strongly disliked. The general agreement between trained and untrained listener loudspeaker preferences illustrated in this test is consistent with previous studies where a different set of listeners and loudspeakers were used [5],[6].

The comprehensive set of anechoic measurements for each loudspeaker is compared to its preference rating (slide 28). There are clear visual correlations between the set of technical measurements and listeners’ loudspeaker preference ratings. The most preferred loudspeaker (Infinity Primus 362) had the flattest measured on-axis and listening window curves (top two curves), and the smoothest first reflection, sound power and first reflection/sound power directivity index curves (the third, fourth, fifth and sixth curves from the top). The other loudspeaker models tended to deviate from this ideal linear behavior, which resulted in lower preference ratings.

 

[slipperybidness]

Your the consumer by rite, you can most likely get the entire cost if the speakers are misrepresented as has been said in this thread... People dont realise that there credit cards give them a huge advantage over the seller... You can simply file a grievance and 99% of the time as long as you are not scamming someone, you will be refunded as long as the merch is returned... I went through this with a custom chome company, I sent out 13 peices to get chromed and when they came back they were terrible... I called them and they didnt want to redo the job, I took them to a local shop {who I usually use, but lost there DEM permits for a while} just to make sure I wasnt being too picky, and they agreed it was a hack job, I then returned the few peices I bought from them and asked for a refund they tried to charge me 40 percent restock, so I called discover and explained the entire story, they refunded 100% plus the cost to ship the items back, then they did an investigation took about a week and I never heard back from them... Just the chromer called to tell me I was a jerk.. Although I still lost it cost me to have them stripped before they could be redone.

Anyway, I have a habit of getting off topic sorry..

Sure, this is one of the advantages of using a CC.

But, why bother. Either get it in writing or go with a company that won't give you the hassle.

For example, I don't think you can beat the SVS bill of rights!
http://www.svsound.com/bill-of-rights

 

[Steve81]

Enjoy the music and movies. Relax.

Trust me, I do most every Friday and Saturday night after the wife and kid have gone to sleep

My brother and his electrical engineer friends think Bose is great. So what if Bose sounds great to them?

Ehh I've got nothing against Bose really. They market like I expect any other company to, and people really do like their products. No sweat off my back.

 

[GranteedEV]

True enough. Of course, most women I know think I'm batsh1t crazy for having something beyond a Bose system (or just TV speakers in the case of my mother in law) anyway, so where does that take us?

Ooh ooh i have a story to tell.

So my cousin was in need of a receiver. It had to be multichannel because it would be powering active speakers. On the classifieds I came across a Maranz SR6300 for what seemed like a pretty good price.

So I emailed and offered a lower price

The person on the other end said "okay sure"

So we went there to pick it and it's some girl telling me how this was given to her by her grandparents, and she didn't know how to set it up so she was selling it

She had Bose set up at her little 30 inch TV in the living room

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yet it's fair to sell one speaker that is flat to 30hz and one that is only flat to 80hz?

It's fair when you have dual Funk TSAD18 subs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Ooh ooh i have a story to tell.

So my cousin was in need of a receiver. It had to be multichannel because it would be powering active speakers. On the classifieds I came across a Maranz SR6300 for what seemed like a pretty good price.

So I emailed and offered a lower price

The person on the other end said "okay sure"

So we went there to pick it and it's some girl telling me how this was given to her by her grandparents, and she didn't know how to set it up so she was selling it

She had Bose set up at her little 30 inch TV in the living room

You took advantage of a poor little girl?

But we don't really care about the AVR. Tell us about the girl.

 

[gene]

I'm beginning to believe measurements are becoming less and less and important and just sitting back and listening is becoming much more important. As are user/owner reviews and impressions of the product.

Speaker sound is subjective and like you said everyone has a different opinion and taste in loudspeaker sound.

The better measuring loudspeaker isn't always the best sounding loudspeaker. Measurements are objective so if the Kef for example is the best measuring loudspeaker then shouldn't it also be the best sounding speaker? And if its not accepted as the best sounding speaker than doesn't that just prove we put to much faith in measurements and not enough in listening.

This is a very true statement especially since most loudspeaker measurements are very incomplete. Measurements can easily be manipulated to make a product look better than it really is.

I sit here listening to the new Status reference speakers dumbfounded by how incredible their bass response is. Aside from having more output than my prior speakers, they measure similarly in the bass region but how does one accurately measure the bass response of such a massive box with multiple drivers in the front and multiple ports in the rear? You can get a summed GP response but it doesn't tell you how that speaker plays in the room.

In my room, most speakers have very linear bass response in my front row but tend to sound bloated in the back row b/c its closer to the back wall. B/C these speakers load the room much differently, this issue is virtually nullified now, as if I am running additional subwoofers.

I'm still wrestling with how to show what I am hearing from a measurements standpoint but its difficult to say the least.

It's even more difficult to quantify the audible benefits of how a large mid/tweet multi driver system radiates into a room providing a higher ratio of direct vs reflected sound at the listening area.

However, basic measurements are always a must to ensure at least the fundamental design principles are sound. You don't want a speaker that has an unnecessary and nasty impedance dip due to poor crossover implementation, or improper driver integration, etc.

 

[Steve81]

That wasn't what the paper drew though. It drew that the less trained listeners were just mostly more pleased by all the speakers - this includes the students as noted

The less trained listeners were more pleased with the performance (not surprising that a trained Harman listener could find more nits to pick), but the point of the study, as you note, was that the relative rankings were fairly close.

My problem with this is that the "less trained listeners" were hardly representative of the general public. I mean, I'd expect a group of boutique and chain audio retailers, engineering students with an interest in audio engineering, and Harman employees to have an idea of what good sound is. Heck, I'd like to think I might be able to rank speakers similar to a trained panel. But that's not exactly a random selection of untrained listeners.

On the other hand, I think if you took a bus load of random people from DC and asked them whether they preferred the sound of a few boom and sizzle type speakers versus a few more accurate models and compared those results with that of a trained listening panel, you'd get a different result. I mean, how else can you explain the existence and seeming success of Beats by Dr. Dre

 

[ImcLoud]

Sure, this is one of the advantages of using a CC.

But, why bother. Either get it in writing or go with a company that won't give you the hassle.

For example, I don't think you can beat the SVS bill of rights!
Your SVS Bill of Rights - SVS

SVS does have the best CS in the business hands down... But anyway you look at you are paying for it...

 

[slipperybidness]

SVS does have the best CS in the business hands down... But anyway you look at you are paying for it...

And you get what you pay for. Except when you pay a restocking fee

 

[whasaaaab]

WOW busy busy today

This is very true
"Anyone interested should get the no restocking fees policy in writing since I was told the 15% restocking fees for the $2500 Pendragon is $375 for vaneeers, silver oil upgrade $750 and shipping is $250 one way due to the large size and weight, so $375 + 750 + $250 = $775"

For me it would be $3875, now if i did not like them I could not return them becuase i have customized them. If i did nothing to them and i did not like them i would still be out $500 or more for shipping and thats if i picked them up at the canada/USA boarder at niagara falls.

Shipped to my house and back to eric would be $775 which I would not get back, if Eric has free shipping i would have a pendragon in my home now auditioning them to who ever wanted to hear them.

He cant do nothing about the shiping fees, only the rstocking fee, but and i say but.... it has to be return in the same exact condition, no scratches no finger prints etc...

Until there is no risk at all for me I wont be purchasing them unless i can hear them from someone in ontario canada.

 

[whasaaaab]

Taves AUDIO SHOW TODAY AND THE WHOLE WEEKEND

What everspeaker i see there and gear i will let you guys know, i hope i see the pendrsgons there too

 

[whasaaaab]

I found speakers that sound I have to say it either better or in the same league as B&W 800 and the Revels that i want, I still have not heard the revels thou they were not at the show.

I heard these 2 speakers and I cant wait to hear the flagship Shoot i was amazed at the sound, the quality etc....
Usher Audio > Dancer Series Loudspeaker > CP-8571 Diamond DMD

Usher Audio > Dancer Series Loudspeaker > CP-8871 Diamond DMD

I need to here these ones next

Usher Audio > Dancer Series Loudspeaker > Be-10 Diamond DMD

Usher Audio > Dancer Series Loudspeaker > Be-20 Diamond DMD

There were sooooo many amazing sounding speakers i was really blown away today. A lot were geared to music only but they all said if it sounds good with music then it will sound good for movies, which we know thats not true always.

I will start a different thread or find a thread that i can mention some of the speakers i saw and heard today. WOW was the grand utopia im 6'5 they were still taller than me and the sound wow you dont need a subwoofer at all those sounded phenominal.

Monitor audio was suppose to come out with a new line of speakers this year as well for their 40th aniversary but thy couldnt, so there will be a new line of monitor audio speakers higher than the platimun line, also paradigm did confirm to me the new speakers are in the works. They will sound even better the signature series, both speakers will be out sometime next year.