tekton - the next big thing?

[ImcLoud]

I'm beginning to believe measurements are becoming less and less and important and just sitting back and listening is becoming much more important. As are user/owner reviews and impressions of the product.

Speaker sound is subjective and like you said everyone has a different opinion and taste in loudspeaker sound.

The better measuring loudspeaker isn't always the best sounding loudspeaker. Measurements are objective so if the Kef for example is the best measuring loudspeaker then shouldn't it also be the best sounding speaker? And if its not accepted as the best sounding speaker than doesn't that just prove we put to much faith in measurements and not enough in listening.

I agree with you 100%, I'm starting to think the guys hung up on reading the numbers should be in a Book club, not on an audio forum ... Put the spec sheet down, spend a couple bucks on some speakers everyone says sound good, and pop in your favorite book on tape...

 

[GranteedEV]

Throw the numbers away

What?

That's like saying "throw the numbers away, I SWEAR my Jetta GLI can hang with a Lambhorhini Gallardo"

Please. Are you kidding me?

You don't throw numbers away about objective parameters. Yes certain kinds of damped cone or dome breakup can have a pleasant masking effect on poor recordings. Yes certain kinds of tubes amps can have a similar masking effect on poor recordings. Yes a speaker's ability to handle power compression can give it an audible edge. But no you don't just "throw the numbers away" based on your limited, sighted personal experience. Speakers are a reproduction tool and that's it. If they are introducing pleasant distortions into the mix then they are doing something wrong. All speakers have "pick your poison" tradeoffs but to assume all speakers "should" have magical unique properties implies that speakees are not a reproduction tool.

Yes the Audio industry wants you to think the speakers, amps, preamps, interconnects, capacitors, wire, power cables, cd players, DACs all "create" the sound. But they don't - they can only alter it and this is what, when, where, why "the numbers" show.

Yes many very popular brands make poor speaker designs. That doesn't mean much. Two equally different and bad speakers are still just that. The closer you get to good speakers the more homogenity you SHOULD hear in the sound. That means you're hearing more of the source and less of the reproduction system.

The tekton speakers are pretty efficient and have good thermal handling to boot. This often has positive audible consequences. But it is not an excuse to throw everything else away. You can have your cake and eat it too.

Am I saying don't audition? No. I'm saying don't blindly buy something you haven't auditioned that also seems objectively mediocre. If you're arguing against that then I have to question your mindframe. Blind Buys are only acceptable when there is a strong basis for them.

 

[ski2xblack]

The past couple days this thread caused me out of curiosity to look up what people are saying about tekton, and this is the only thread I could find speaking negative about them... The entire internet, and this one thread???.... Weird

You are correct. Audioholics is like a tropical island paradise of rational thinking in a vast ocean of superstition and marketing flim-flam.

 

[GranteedEV]

I'm beginning to believe measurements are becoming less and less and important and just sitting back and listening is becoming much more important. As are user/owner reviews and impressions of the product.

Speaker sound is subjective and like you said everyone has a different opinion and taste in loudspeaker sound.

Nonsense. Speakers / Microphones / Rooms are not instruments. They don't create the sound they can only make an attempt at recreating it realistically.

The better measuring loudspeaker isn't always the best sounding loudspeaker. Measurements are objective so if the Kef for example is the best measuring loudspeaker then shouldn't it also be the best sounding speaker?

Assuming the existing measurements are adequate to compare the best of the best - which they're not. They do tell us where the wheat and chaff are though. The weighting itself of different measurements aside from listening window impulse/frequency response is highly debatable. But that's no excuse to toss out the desire for accurate sound reproduction for "whatever tickles your fancy".

And if its not accepted as the best sounding speaker than doesn't that just prove we put to much faith in measurements and not enough in listening.

Maybe... just maybe.. it was never accepted as the best measuring loudspeaker in the first place. Just really, really good.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I enjoy looking at them too. Glad you went with the black gloss.

I do listen to them will all the lights on. They so sexy.

 

[gtpsuper24]

What?

That's like saying "throw the numbers away, I SWEAR my Jetta GLI can hang with a Lambhorhini Gallardo"

Please. Are you kidding me?

You don't throw numbers away about objective parameters. Yes certain kinds of damped cone or dome breakup can have a pleasant masking effect on poor recordings. Yes certain kinds of tubes amps can have a similar masking effect on poor recordings. Yes a speaker's ability to handle power compression can give it an audible edge. But no you don't just "throw the numbers away" based on your limited, sighted personal experience. Speakers are a reproduction tool and that's it. If they are introducing pleasant distortions into the mix then they are doing something wrong. All speakers have "pick your poison" tradeoffs but to assume all speakers "should" have magical unique properties implies that speakees are not a reproduction tool.

Yes the Audio industry wants you to think the speakers, amps, preamps, interconnects, capacitors, wire, power cables, cd players, DACs all "create" the sound. But they don't - they can only alter it and this is what, when, where, why "the numbers" show.

Yes many very popular brands make poor speaker designs. That doesn't mean much. Two equally different and bad speakers are still just that. The closer you get to good speakers the more homogenity you SHOULD hear in the sound. That means you're hearing more of the source and less of the reproduction system.

The tekton speakers are pretty efficient and have good thermal handling to boot. This often has positive audible consequences. But it is not an excuse to throw everything else away. You can have your cake and eat it too.

Am I saying don't audition? No. I'm saying don't blindly buy something you haven't auditioned that also seems objectively mediocre. If you're arguing against that then I have to question your mindframe. Blind Buys are only acceptable when there is a strong basis for them.

Comparing the VW to the Lambo isn't exactly a good reference. We can go out and prove that the Lambo is faster than the VW, (if only we had a Lambo to use)

I can't prove to you that speaker A sounds better than speaker B. Different tastes in loudspeakers will mean we will NEVER agree that one sounds better or worse than the other.

We can go to a race track and race the Lambo against the VW and show everyone how much faster the Lambo is.

We can have a GTG with tower speakers, but never come to a concenses on which sounds the best.

There is no bad speaker IMO. I really began to really hate the Axiom speakers I had, but that doesn't mean they are a bad speaker just not my taste. Lot of happy loyal Axiom owners out there so does that make them bad? Even doing what some would call a textbook bad idea on using dual tweeters in a center channel. We would call that a bad speaker while some happy owners would call a fantastic speaker.

 

[3db]

I'm beginning to believe measurements are becoming less and less and important and just sitting back and listening is becoming much more important. As are user/owner reviews and impressions of the product.

Speaker sound is subjective and like you said everyone has a different opinion and taste in loudspeaker sound.

The better measuring loudspeaker isn't always the best sounding loudspeaker. Measurements are objective so if the Kef for example is the best measuring loudspeaker then shouldn't it also be the best sounding speaker? And if its not accepted as the best sounding speaker than doesn't that just prove we put to much faith in measurements and not enough in listening.

Speaker measurements tell us everything about the speakers performance but it won't tell how one perceives the sound. I've read reviews where speakers were rated top notch by an audiophile in an audio rag in terms of listening but measured poorly. Do you think I'm going to believe the audiophile's opinion? Not a chance in hell as there is add for that speaker company in the magazine/web site and their is clear bias by the audiophile towards the speaker as it pays his/her salary. Measurements help us weed out the chaff (including mega priced speakers whose frequency response looks like moguls in a ski hill) but an audition is still a must to see if it "fits" our hearing.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm saying don't blindly buy something you haven't auditioned that also seems objectively mediocre...Blind Buys are only acceptable when there is a strong basis for them.

That.

If someone auditions the Tekton and love them compared to other speakers like Revel, KEF, Philharmonic, etc., then buys the Tekton, no one would question that. You should buy what subjectively sounds great to you. You have to live with that.

But don't just take someone else's opinion and buy blindly based on some very mediocre objective points.

Some of us do take chances and buy before auditioning. But when we do that, we base it on some pretty solid objective standards.

 

[ImcLoud]

Obviously I dont mean throw away the numbers for everything all the time, but when you have a good amount of people that tried something and are happy with 0 people coming forward saying they are unhappy then maybe you should put more stock in that than some numbers... Thats my point...

I think people let "the numbers" sway their decisions on stuff more than it should...
Example, not a perfect one but it will work..
Me and my wife hosted a "Chili cook off", {fundraiser for one of my sons friends who is suffering from CF} {My lawn is almost 3 acres of manicured KBG so we like to get use out of it whenever we can, and whats a better reason to get together than that}, And I decided to make a different chili than my wife because she was following a recipe guideline in a book {it was like chili for dummies}. I, on the other hand went a different route and made it how I always make our chili, just seasoned it to taste and put a lot of Meat.

The entire time we were cooking them {we have a Wolf C60 so are easily able to cook 4 Huge pots and have 6 other burners going at the same time,I used a 1 1/4" gas line }, my wife kept saying the "book says that is not going to be good, and the website says not to add more than this much amount of meat per this mount amount of liquid" ect... Well long story short, I won mine was better {not overall I think I was 4th place, but she was second to last, and the last place chili had peanut butter in it and 2 of the 4 judges were allergic}...
Anyway, the book and guidelines work, but that doesnt mean stuff outside them cant work better...
Peoples tastes do also differ, thats why I think the Tektons deserve a listen, all the buyers cant be wrong...

PS- 3db, Im not even talking about the "pro" reviews, Im talking about the 50 posts of regular guys buying and loving them.. Im talking about me and the 20-50 people who listened to my cheap *** jolida/lores combo that are amazed at it, the ones that know audio would say "Wow this was under $2000" others that dont know what stuff costs, would say "wow thats why it is almost $2000 of equipment", either way no one said, "ehh, they sound like the numbers are off.." lol And My friends are pretty honest, my first ceiling speakers sounded meza mez and everyone told me... To me they sounded as expected they were $40 each and only for ambiance and effect, not for critical listening, I ended up upgrading to the yamahas and it is night and day, but it proves I had subjective people listening, not just a bunch of yes men...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

There is no bad speaker IMO... using dual tweeters in a center channel. We would call that a bad speaker while some happy owners would call a fantastic speaker.

I think you're pushing your luck just a little too much there.

Some people may be so loyal that they would be willing go down with the ship if it comes down to it.

Axiom could put 4 tweeters in the center speaker and the loyal fanboys would just take it.

 

[slipperybidness]

That.

If someone auditions the Tekton and love them compared to other speakers like Revel, KEF, Philharmonic, etc., then buys the Tekton, no one would question that. You should buy what subjectively sounds great to you. You have to live with that.

But don't just take someone else's opinion and buy blindly based on some very mediocre objective points.

Some of us do take chances and buy before auditioning. But when we do that, we base it on some pretty solid objective standards.

Sure, I bought the P363s just from the remarks on here. Also, the Def Tech SM350s without an audition. Grand total for 2 pairs of good speakers? <$600.

When I'm spending real scratch, no way that I would ever consider dropping serious dough on a speaker without a serious audition and serious audition against competitors in the price range.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

when you have a good amount of people that tried something and are happy with 0 people coming forward saying they are unhappy then maybe you should put more stock in that than some numbers... Thats my point...

Maybe they didn't want to eat $700+ in cost if they returned the speakers?

Well, I think most of us are saying, "Why take a chance when there are many other options that are not as risky?"

Besides the few opinions from those who OWN the Tekton or SPONSOR the Tekton, there is nothing great objectively about them. Thus, they are considered by most of us to be "high risk".

 

[slipperybidness]

Maybe they didn't want to eat $700+ in cost if they returned the speakers?

Well, I think most of us are saying, "Why take a chance when there are many other options that are not as risky?"

Besides the few opinions from those who OWN the Tekton or SPONSOR the Tekton, there is nothing great objectively about them. Thus, they are considered by most of us to be "high risk".

You nailed it. High risk. Sure, audition them and see what you think. But, there are proven designs that are no risk or low risk. Proven designs with 30 no-risk trials vs risky design with $700 risk.

If you were in Vegas, what would the choice be?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sure, I bought the P363s just from the remarks on here. Also, the Def Tech SM350s without an audition. Grand total for 2 pairs of good speakers? <$600.

When I'm spending real scratch, no way that I would ever consider dropping serious dough on a speaker without a serious audition and serious audition against competitors in the price range.

Right on.

The P360/362/363 have been measured by Stereophile and Audioholics. The SM450 were measured and reviewed by The Audio Critic. So you based the decision on some pretty solid info. Plus, they didn't cost a lot.

 

[GranteedEV]

Comparing the VW to the Lambo isn't exactly a good reference. We can go out and prove that the Lambo is faster than the VW, (if only we had a Lambo to use)

Bad analogy. "We can't prove someone will prefer the Lambo over the VW but given a full set of anechoic measurements we can show how Speaker A is more accurate a reprpducer than Speaker B.

I can't prove to you that speaker A sounds better than speaker B. Different tastes in loudspeakers will mean we will NEVER agree that one sounds better or worse than the other.

Likewise I can't prove to you that a Lambhorhini "feels" better but I can show you that speaker A "distorts less".

We can go to a race track and race the Lambo against the VW and show everyone how much faster the Lambo is.

But is being faster a meaningful parameter for going back and forth to work? The numbers that matter for that would be MPG or number of seats or insurance costs. The point is that you can't "discount" objective parameters - but we can weigh them differently. To toss them out is pretty ignorant. You don't need to test drive everything to know what is more suitable for the application

We can have a GTG with tower speakers, but never come to a concenses on which sounds the best.

Preference is not an indicator of accuracy. That said Harman research consistently shows a wider preference for higher accuracy in controlled listening tests among very dofferent demographics. Accuracy is often an indicator of Preference when biases are removed.

There is no bad speaker IMO. I really began to really hate the Axiom speakers I had, but that doesn't mean they are a bad speaker just not my taste. Lot of happy loyal Axiom owners out there so does that make them bad? Even doing what some would call a textbook bad idea on using dual tweeters in a center channel. We would call that a bad speaker while some happy owners would call a fantastic speaker.

There's a lot of wild ideas out there. All I know is, if it measures poor, it sound less accurate. As audio enthusiasts we can't decide someone else's taste but we can guide them towards objectively superior speakers and then they can make decisions for themselves.

 

[ImcLoud]

I dont think it would be $700 to audition them, lol Im on the opposite side of the country and shipping was $80, so both ways $160.. And I was told they are subject to 15% restocking fee, When I asked about this, I was told if I didnt like how they sounded as long as they were returned in the shape they left in there would be no fee... The owner seems like a real nice guy and obviously is doing something rite... Plus, you can always use a discover card, the insure restocking fees... This is if you are in the market for a speaker, to get them just to take a listen doesnt make sense, enough people own these to find someone local, and in my experience audio guys love to show off there stuff... I know I do and I have the cheapest stuff you can buy...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I dont think it would be $700 to audition them, lol Im on the opposite side of the country and shipping was $80, so both ways $160.. And I was told they are subject to 15% restocking fee, When I asked about this, I was told if I didnt like how they sounded as long as they were returned in the shape they left in there would be no fee... The owner seems like a real nice guy and obviously is doing something rite... Plus, you can always use a discover card, the insure restocking fees... This is if you are in the market for a speaker, to get them just to take a listen doesnt make sense, enough people own these to find someone local, and in my experience audio guys love to show off there stuff... I know I do and I have the cheapest stuff you can buy...

I think the Tekton Pendragon cost a lot more to ship than the Lores. I would get the restocking fee waiver in writing first.

But, if you are happy with them, that's all that matters. They look too boxy for me, though. It would have been more interesting if they used curved cabinets. But if you are happy, that's great. No need to please anyone else, but yourself and your family.

Anyone interested should get the no restocking fees policy in writing since I was told the 15% restocking fees for the $2500 Pendragon is $375 and shipping is $200 one way due to the large size and weight, so $375 + $200 + $200 = $775.

 

[Steve81]

That said Harman research consistently shows a wider preference for higher accuracy in controlled listening tests among very dofferent demographics.

Important note: people preferred the more accurate speaker after being trained. Loads of people still like exaggerated bass for example; even within the ranks of enthusiasts there are plenty who will run the subwoofer hot. Lord knows I've been in enough cars where the stereo has the bass and treble maxed out.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...there are plenty who will run the subwoofer hot...

Not I. No sir.

I don't like that bass.....all.....that.....much.

Why.........my dual Funk are set flat as flat can be........even with the Salon2.

 

[GranteedEV]

Important note: people preferred the more accurate speaker after being trained.

hrm? That's conjecture... read the following:

http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20120927/12206.pdf