SVS Visit 7-22-05

[mulester7]

I pretty much agree with Buck on this, I'd just like to add a few comments. The bigger brothers of the ISD 10 have the ability to plug the ports, doing this with an EQ allows you to "tune" the sub for the room conditions. This also slightly drops the bandwidth and the upper end rolloff of the unit, while at the same time extending the low end. This also limits the SPL that the sub can play at. I think the 10" unit is a good compromise between the two. A great package with a good WAF. But it's still only a 10. I think that 2 of these would work well in an average sized room, it would just take some serious tweaking. Unless the room is pretty small, I'd say you are better off going with a 12" unit.

.....Mac, I want your thoughts also on what I just posted....if you need to shoot the opinions by PM, that's fine....guys, this PM feature is neat....to receive one is neat....to respond back is neat....neat, neat, neat.....

 

[jaxvon]

Muley, you need to lay off the green stuff for awhile. Non-alcoholic intoxication + forum posting = Whacky Posts. Not trying to razz ya, but...uhm...yeah.

 

[mulester7]

Muley, you need to lay off the green stuff for awhile. Non-alcoholic intoxication + forum posting = Whacky Posts. Not trying to razz ya, but...uhm...yeah.

.....haha, Jaxvon, this system is serious to me, and I know what I want in a system....that's for everything to be covered.....

 

[MacManNM]

What was your impressions/perceptions of the PB12-Plus/2?

Phil

I thought it was good, almost as good as the Ultra, the only thing I noticed was it tended to bottom out on the real demanding low stuff. Watching U571, during the depth charge scenes, it went low, but this is when it bottomed out. I think this was due to the fact that it had a port plug in and the bass extension on.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Mule: I have to have more than just these two boxes in the corners up front, Buck, and don't know what to do

Mule, which two subs do you have again? How large is your room? And is this the room you are running the dual 901's with dual eq's? There's a lot of sound going on in there right now! Can your ears take much more? I'm thinking of some way to avoid wave cancellation. It's going to be tough with two existing subs.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

What was your impressions/perceptions of the PB12-Plus/2?

Phil

It was a pretty impressive unit. I had to interrupt Mac and Stephen to come see the "wind tunnel" it was producing out of the three ports. There was a huge difference in the amplifier power compared to the other models.

 

[MacManNM]

.....possibly so, Privateer, but subs, down-firing especially, just need to be in the room if you were trying to sell them at that location, which I doubt they push much....

....SVS is an internet company, period....none of their stuff is in stores....what's got them where they are, is word-of-listen/buy one/others listen/boat on hold, haha....quality and performance, has made SVS what it is....and Gentlemen, a home chamber will NEVER sound as "tight" as that chamber in the car did, unless you spend $2.8 Million, thus enters the frustration for a car-system enthusiast, of which I are one....

.....I am influenced by car-systems from the past, bigtime....I want bass to hit my whole body with subs providing the gunpowder....but, is that the way bass hits me at a live performance?....my HT pilgrimage is frustrating at times....I have to have more than just these two boxes in the corners up front, Buck, and don't know what to do.....I want to stand 10 feet from my front, and two, 10 or 12 inch subwoofers, somewhere in the general middle, off the floor at least 18 inches, cut from 50hz down, "POP" me, with AUTHORITY, "high and low", you know what I mean, and sound, VERY good, and ACCURATE OF PITCH in the high range, up to at least 100, maybe 120, and maybe only 80 or 90, who knows?....up HIGH in the sub frequency, even maybe 130, I want the small cannons to emit even unto, brassiness, concerning timbre or presence....and that's if that term can apply to a sub, brassiness, ok, maybe it don't, maybe it does, who knows?, but it does, where's my cage?......

Mule, I know exactly what you are looking for. You want to hear everything. You want to sit in the middle of your room and "feel" like you are 20ft away from the stage. This is what I long for. You can have bass imaging. Especially in that area (80-120 Hz). To be honest I don't know how to get it. Most loudspeakers are weak there, and subs don't go up that high. My uncle had a setup with a pair of old RTR 1000D's, and a 15" sub he got from the old DAK company. It was a great combo, the RTR's had 10" woofers and using the sub with them gave you that feeling. Have you tried to wire yours up using the high level inputs? The SVS units have a 1st order filter built in to the high level outputs, to lessen the blow to your mains. I think doing things this way, you might be pretty impressed.

 

[mulester7]

Mule, which two subs do you have again? How large is your room? And is this the room you are running the dual 901's with dual eq's? There's a lot of sound going on in there right now! Can your ears take much more? I'm thinking of some way to avoid wave cancellation. It's going to be tough with two existing subs.

.....Buck, I have two SVS B12-Plus/4 subs, one in each corner, of my front....what they put out is plenty low, but sorta' soft oscillations coming out the front window/door....my room is about 14x30x8, but the sound chamber is about 14x20x8....I have no Bose speakers....I have two floor-stander mains sitting on top of the B12's, and two rears....more speakers in future.....I seek small front-firing subs, off the floor, cut from 50 down, to be small cannons from middle of front.....

.....probably won't try to be humorous or cute anymore if it makes people think I'm ripped....serious about a system?....yes.....

 

[mulester7]

Mule, I know exactly what you are looking for. You want to hear everything

.....give this man a cigar....Mac, I WILL have small cannons with these two boxes I have....persons with large down-firing subs might consider the same....I may build something, I don't know.....and, I may end up building two boxes and have EV 15's again to bolster up the mains, not sure....thanks for the response and info, Mac.....

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I seek small front-firing subs, off the floor, cut from 50 down, to be small cannons from middle of front.....

Mule, I wish I could send you my XSUB for a demo (you'll have to send me one of your plus 4's ). It really fills the gap you are looking for. I pulled the woofer out for the first time today, and the guts are pretty impressive. I knew it had a strong amp, and great build quality. It doesn't have the thunderous bass I heard last Friday listening to U571. It's IMO more of a musical sub than a HT sub (closer to a high end car setup). I'd love to have one of each, but I don't have the room with two huge floorstanders. A room is only so big. I don't think the PB10 ISD will fill your void, as it tried to only go low, and not keep up with the smooth jazz I listen to. I'm still wondering how you're going to avoid the wave cancellation with 4 subs. I had issues with a 10" and 12" last fall.

 

[brian32672]

The only one I want to know about is the PB12-ISD/V. Did you guys do a comparative test between that one and the PB12-ISD?
My other consideration at the moment is the Outlaw LFM-1 for 579.00

 

[mulester7]

Mule, I wish I could send you my XSUB for a demo (you'll have to send me one of your plus 4's ). It really fills the gap you are looking for. I pulled the woofer out for the first time today, and the guts are pretty impressive. I knew it had a strong amp, and great build quality. It doesn't have the thunderous bass I heard last Friday listening to U571. It's IMO more of a musical sub than a HT sub (closer to a high end car setup). I'd love to have one of each, but I don't have the room with two huge floorstanders. A room is only so big. I don't think the PB10 ISD will fill your void, as it tried to only go low, and not keep up with the smooth jazz I listen to. I'm still wondering how you're going to avoid the wave cancellation with 4 subs. I had issues with a 10" and 12" last fall.

.....Buck, you know what I feel for SVS....the only reason I have these B4's is because of Tom....but Tom has sent me to other products from right off the bat....he could have told me to get one of their eq's, but he told me to get the Paradigm unit....Tom's head is on straight, imo....

.....Buck, I want to bring the volume of the small cannons cut at 50 down, up to where they are handling the job by themselves against the mains regiment....then I want to bring up just the right amount of B4 under the small cannons for realism concussion mainly, but also giving pitch, and large, warm, and clear, soft oscillations....someone said a special product was equal in performance with several higher price levels....this Cadance sub you have may be such an animal, I don't know....will clone you some B4's, Buck, you and Mac are the best......

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

The only one I want to know about is the PB12-ISD/V. Did you guys do a comparative test between that one and the PB12-ISD?
My other consideration at the moment is the Outlaw LFM-1 for 579.00

They didn't have both. The LFM-1 is a lightweight compared to those two IMHO. 12-inch woofer; 325-watt digital amplifier; 25 - 180 Hz; 58 pounds. That just about describes the XSUB at $229. PB12 ISD/V: +/- 3 dB 18 Hz-200 Hz anechoic in 20hz mode; 100 pounds; 320 watt digital amp (too bad it's not the 525 watt). The series 5 is going to go lower with that huge cabinet. You'll lose some "punch" though, IMO, but gain it with HT.

World's first sub:

 

[brian32672]

They didn't have both. The LFM-1 is a lightweight compared to those two IMHO. 12-inch woofer; 325-watt digital amplifier; 25 - 180 Hz; 58 pounds. That just about describes the XSUB at $229. PB12 ISD/V: +/- 3 dB 18 Hz-200 Hz anechoic in 20hz mode; 100 pounds; 320 watt digital amp (too bad it's not the 525 watt). The series 5 is going to go lower with that huge cabinet. You'll lose some "punch" though, IMO, but gain it with HT.

Yeah but I think the Outlaw is being very conservative on their rating.

Here are their amp specs.
"Amplifier Power Rating: 325WRMS; 1300W peak"

 

[brian32672]

The only one I want to know about is the PB12-ISD/V. Did you guys do a comparative test between that one and the PB12-ISD?

Also forget the Outlaw, Please reply on these 2 above?????PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE

Is it worth the price dif. to go to the V model????????????

 

[brian32672]

Also forget the Outlaw, Please reply on these 2 above

I see that you kind of did...OOPS.. Just really read about the X-Sub and the Outlaw.

Would you have another suggestion over the ISD/V within that price range, or is that about the best I will get for 700.00

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Yeah but I think the Outlaw is being very conservative on their rating. Here are their amp specs.
"Amplifier Power Rating: 325WRMS; 1300W peak"

I respectfully disagree. It's a lightweight class D amp that puts out 325 watts rms at about 10% distortion. Most subs using class D amps have that exact same amp. You would sh!+ your pants if you saw these flimsy class D amps. Stephen at SVS was kind enough to show us the difference between the 325 watt, the 525 watt, and the 1000 watt digital amps. I'd love to see the invoice on those guys. I bet they don't weigh 5 lbs. They work fine for subs, but for what's in them, they should be using at least the 525 watt amps. As far as peak power goes, I'd take that rating with a grain of salt.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I see that you kind of did...OOPS.. Just really read about the X-Sub and the Outlaw.

Would you have another suggestion over the ISD/V within that price range, or is that about the best I will get for 700.00

$700 is a good amount of money for a sub. Have you browsed Audiogon lately? http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/fsb.pl?homesubw&1&ctg&st1 Based on past threads, the HSU and SVS subs are the creme of the crop lb for dollar. New, and has a solid warranty. Are you wanting more for HT or music?

 

[brian32672]

Are you wanting more for HT or music?

A small mixture for both. But I clearly watch more movies than listen to music.
700.00 would be my absolute max..... And 600.00 would be a nicer range. For some reason, I did not really like the look of the HSU subs. Surely looks are not everything. But I do like the beefy look of the ISD/V

 

[MacManNM]

.....give this man a cigar....Mac, I WILL have small cannons with these two boxes I have....persons with large down-firing subs might consider the same....I may build something, I don't know.....and, I may end up building two boxes and have EV 15's again to bolster up the mains, not sure....thanks for the response and info, Mac.....

Mule, What mains are you running that make you feel you are missing all of this content?