MacManNM said:
Duff,
I don't think using 2 rooms is the way to go, as adult humans detailed sonic memory is about as retentive as my 8yr old son and remembering to do his homework. There haven't been a whole lot of DBT's done with subs because of the fact that they are so difficult to get dialed in and such. I am just trying to let people know how difficult a test like this really is.
I am here to try and help people (mainly new people) by giving them as much information, and advice as I possibly can.
Again, I must say that it's great to have a treasure trove of absolute fact hangin' around to straighten out the noobs.
Though I won't match my 'sonic memory' to your son's homework completion rate, I'll tell ya that this statement is pure hooey in any case. So is saying that blind tests haven't been conducted because it's so hard to dial a sub in.
'Sonic memory' Sheesh.
The listening test was not hard at all. Everyone should try it when auditioning a new sub.
1. Set them in the same spot.
2. Phase and/or polarity optimize them.
3. Level match them.
4. PEQ them to within +/- 3 dB across their bandwidth.
5. Play the same source material through each one.
6. Decide which one sounds the best to you, and why.
Craig took care of steps 1-5, inclusive. I said which one I liked best and why...simple. I've done similar tests to decide which sub I like in my system at least 100 times, using 3 dozen subwoofers.
NOTES:
1. It's entirely impossible to place them identically. One sub is front-firing, one is down-firing. One sub fires into free air, the other fires coupled to a baseplate.
2. A sub may have a phase switch, an all pass filter with continuously variable control, or both. Disadvantage goes to the sub with less control, and so be it.
4. More or less PEQ may be needed for one sub or the other because of a sub's configuration and in-room FR. Disadvantage to the sub that needs more PEQ to arrive at +/- 3 dB and so be it.
5. The source material was decided that day by consensus of the listeners, who all agreed that the movie soundtrack clip would be run at +5 dB, all other material played with the subs leveled to the sats.
6. Saying that one can't remember how the last sub sounded because there was a lapse of 15 minutes in between listening (which included an immediate review of how the last sub sounded on paper, in subjective terms and in score form) is nonsense. Please post links to the various studies that have proven it a fact that an experienced bass player, or the mix enginerr, or the mastering engineer has a sonic memory of only a few seconds instead of telling everyone that this nonsense is true.
Fact is that you can't change a sub's sonic signature within the parameters of Craig's test, which is what all the naysayers have tried to say from the onset.
Fact is that every listener caught the 5 dB hump that Craig induced at 25 Hz on one of the subs, which proves that a nearfield placement will reveal small imperfections regardless of any given human's perceptions of what bass should sound like.
Fact is that, if you were to decide which sub to buy, the test Craig set up is a much better way than to read graphs of subs. The graphs may help you to narrow down your choices based on room size, listening preferences, source material preferences, and like that, but listening in your own system is the bottom line, after which you can use features, size, upgradeability and price to tip the scales, if necessary.
Fact is that you don't want a cross section of people who never heard a MC system or a subwoofer in their lives to offer an opinion of which subwoofer you might want to purchase. If you really do want that...good luck, and let us know how it worked out for you.
Get off your high horse with the DBT factoids. It isn't teaching anyone anything.
Bosso
