Suggestions on new gear (primarily speakers)

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KallyCoda

Enthusiast
Hope that all works out for you. That's a nice budget to have for new gear too! Sounds like you're committed on getting a solid L-R-C setup and that's an awesome choice. I really like that center. Have you listened to anything else? I always figure purchase of this nature might be once in a blue moon. Maybe listen to some Golden Ears or even Def Techs? I think you get an incredible reproduction with either and even better for audio. That said, Center channel is critical and for hone theater this really seems like a solid choice. I'd love to demo them in mine for that matter! Good luck!
 
Hartley

Hartley

Audiophyte
The only thing that gives me pause is two-way speakers with the LF drivers straining at the high end of their range and possibly the tweeters doing the same at the low end of theirs. And of course a xover being right in the middle. The midrange is really a critical place to have all that trouble going on.

Granted designing a good 3-way speaker is more complex but at that price point I'm sure I'd be listening to a number of good three-way solutions.

ETA: Mind you, I do like the RF7-III. But those are big woofs and they can only go so high. I'd actually rather have smaller mid-woofs and then a SW to handle the bottom end.

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R

R.Elder

Audioholic
The only thing that gives me pause is two-way speakers with the LF drivers straining at the high end of their range and possibly the tweeters doing the same at the low end of theirs. And of course a xover being right in the middle. The midrange is really a critical place to have all that trouble going on.

Granted designing a good 3-way speaker is more complex but at that price point I'm sure I'd be listening to a number of good three-way solutions.

ETA: Mind you, I do like the RF7-III. But those are big woofs and they can only go so high. I'd actually rather have smaller mid-woofs and then a SW to handle the bottom end.

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That’s true and I also have my concerns about going with 2-ways. The enlarged tweeter is supposed to help cover the gap created by using the 10s. I haven’t been able to find a good chart of its response. Unfortunately I’m limited to Magnolia for listening. They don’t have any of the nicer Klipsch RP or better in store to demo.

I live in West Texas... not a lot of audio shops left outside the auto arena. The magnolia store has a few KEFs, lots of B&W and lots of MartinLogan. They also have the DefTechs. I don’t need built in LFE.
 
Hartley

Hartley

Audiophyte
That’s true and I also have my concerns about going with 2-ways. The enlarged tweeter is supposed to help cover the gap created by using the 10s. I haven’t been able to find a good chart of its response. Unfortunately I’m limited to Magnolia for listening. They don’t have any of the nicer Klipsch RP or better in store to demo.

I live in West Texas... not a lot of audio shops left outside the auto arena. The magnolia store has a few KEFs, lots of B&W and lots of MartinLogan. They also have the DefTechs. I don’t need built in LFE.
Have you considered the HTD Level 3 Towers? They're right there in DFW and I believe they let you try them out for free. I've heard them and was impressed. Also if I were you I'd love to A/B the RF7-III and the Forte III which are three way.

Meanwhile, I should admit that despite my (somewhat theoretical) issues with large 2-ways, I've heard more than one set which sound nearly perfect in the midrange...right where the xover lands.

So design & construction skill &expertise probably trump theoretical objections.
 
John Parks

John Parks

Audioholic Samurai
That’s true and I also have my concerns about going with 2-ways. The enlarged tweeter is supposed to help cover the gap created by using the 10s. I haven’t been able to find a good chart of its response. Unfortunately I’m limited to Magnolia for listening. They don’t have any of the nicer Klipsch RP or better in store to demo.

I live in West Texas... not a lot of audio shops left outside the auto arena. The magnolia store has a few KEFs, lots of B&W and lots of MartinLogan. They also have the DefTechs. I don’t need built in LFE.
How far west in West Texas are you? I'm originally from El Paso (about as far west as west can get in Texas) and my go-to AV shop for years was Soundquest.
 
R

R.Elder

Audioholic
My friend is using Yamaha 3080 receiver. It's quite good.
It is a good AVR. It’s had a hard time driving my 4ohm center speaker but dabbled with the trim and set it to the 6 ohm setting. That seems to have mostly cleared up the issue but when I upgrade I want to do the front 3. I’ll have a UC5 that I’ve only used for a few months to get rid of. I leave most of the features off and I’m not a big fan of the AI feature. I got mine for a stupid low price from Best Buy on a price match. Like 1299. ...
 
R

R.Elder

Audioholic
How far west in West Texas are you? I'm originally from El Paso (about as far west as west can get in Texas) and my go-to AV shop for years was Soundquest.
I’m in Midland. So Dallas is quite a drive about 4.5 hours each way.
 
John Parks

John Parks

Audioholic Samurai
I’m in Midland. So Dallas is quite a drive about 4.5 hours each way.
Yup - I pass through M/O a few couple a year to visit family but never have a reason to stop other than to get gas...
 
R

R.Elder

Audioholic
Insurance guy called and I’ve settled for 5k but I have additional funds I can draw on as well as credit. I’d rather not dip into credit though. So I’ve got up to 6k to drop on fronts or preferably fronts and center.

I’m still leaning towards the Klipsch mostly because of uniformity and convenience. It will be a week or maybe two before I get the check from the insurance company. If I get a chance I might try to drive to Lubbock or Dallas and audition speakers that my MDC doesn’t have.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
So design & construction skill &expertise probably trump theoretical objections.
I would consider a 2-way speaker from Salk almost any day over most 3-way speakers on the market.
You are absolutely correct: driver choice and crossover design are more important than a shiny finish. ;) Dennis Murphy was one of the best at this. His own speakers with Philharmonic and the work he did with Jim Salk are stunning examples of this. With Salk, the drivers are premium across the board, with Philharmonic, he might have one premium and a budget driver combined, but Dennis was able to get the best performance out of those drivers by his care in designing the xo.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The positive review on the Klipsch RP8000s have me thinking about saving a few bucks.
Yeah, very impressive on/off-axis measurement on the $600 Klipsch 8000.

As Shady says, the off-axis on the $1,000 Paradigm looks smoother (among the smoothest) than the $600 Klipsch 8000F, while the on-axis is better on the 8000F - +/-2dB on the Klipsch vs. +/-3dB on the Paradigm.

Overall, the Klipsch has very good off-axis and excellent on-axis FR.
 
R

R.Elder

Audioholic
Yeah, very impressive on/off-axis measurement on the $600 Klipsch 8000.

As Shady says, the off-axis on the $1,000 Paradigm looks smoother (among the smoothest) than the $600 Klipsch 8000F, while the on-axis is better on the 8000F - +/-2dB on the Klipsch vs. +/-3dB on the Paradigm.

Overall, the Klipsch has very good off-axis and excellent on-axis FR.
I wish I could find charts for the RF-7 iii. Those 8000Fs are great if I didn’t have this surplus cash I would be getting them for sure.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I wish I could find charts for the RF-7 iii. Those 8000Fs are great if I didn’t have this surplus cash I would be getting them for sure.
From what I recall, the ONLY other Klipsch speakers I've seen that have excellent on-axis/off-axis measurements were the THX Ultra2 speakers that cost a lot more money.

Most audiophiles associate Klipsch speakers with having "bright sound" because the measurements (from Sound & Vision or Stereophile) usually show a spike in the treble region (10kHz) like on the high-end Paradigm, B&W, and GoldenEar, DefTech speakers.

Anyway, the +/-2dB on-axis and very good off-axis of the $600 Klipsch is very impressive.
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I wish I could find charts for the RF-7 iii. Those 8000Fs are great if I didn’t have this surplus cash I would be getting them for sure.
If you're getting Klipsch anyway, I don't see the point of getting any other Klipsch unless you know for sure they have better measurements than the 8000F (the THX Ultra bookshelf, which is probably over-budget). The 8000F on-axis is +/-2dB. The THX Ultra2 on-axis is like +/-1dB.

What's the point of getting the RF7 or any other Klipsch if there is a chance they will measure like +/-4dB with a +7dB spike around 10kHz?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I'm not sure if RBH even has any more SX-T1 available. They were on clearance. But five of the SX-T1 would be way under $5K. Don't know if you like the aesthetics anyway. :D

I mean if you have to spend more money. :D
 
R

R.Elder

Audioholic
If you're getting Klipsch anyway, I don't see the point of getting any other Klipsch unless you know for sure they have better measurements than the 8000F (the THX Ultra bookshelf, which is probably over-budget). The 8000F on-axis is +/-2dB. The THX Ultra2 on-axis is like +/-1dB.

What's the point of getting the RF7 or any other Klipsch if there is a chance they will measure like +/-4dB with a +7dB spike around 10kHz?
You pretty much nailed it. They aren’t as bright as some of their speakers but major dip at crossover frequency and 8000f look better.
 

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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Exactly what I'm talking about.

When I hear the word "Klipsch", in the past, I usually think +/- 4 to +/-5dB with a +6 or 7dB spike around 10kHz.

That measurement you found is actually worse than I thought. Man it's like +/-6dB. :eek:

So as I say, if you are buying Klipsch, stick with something you KNOW has great measurements - the 8000F or the THX Ultra2.
 
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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
The measurement in that review may have some flaws. First of all, the scale is a bit odd, making it seem worse then the way these graphs are typically scaled. It only uses a 30 dB scale in the amplitude range. That will makes peaks and dips look worse than they do in normal graphs which use about a 50 dB scale. Second, it is a bit strange to take the graph all the way out to 40 kHz. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Third, I am betting this response came from measuring this speaker too close. Klipsch designs their larger towers for a 3 meter use. If you measure at 1 meter for a speaker of this design type and size, you will definitely see a dip at the crossover. A speaker like this needs space for the sound of the drivers to integrate. I think that if measured at 2 to 3 meters, that dip would shore up. I don't know how they measured those speakers, but my hunch is that they probably measure better if done so with a technique that is more befitting of that design. Furthermore, an on-axis response is not enough to characterize the sound of a speaker. I wouldn't be so quick to write the RF-7 IIIs off by looking at that measurement. Don't read too much into that measurement, I don't think it is telling us very much about that speaker.
 
R

R.Elder

Audioholic
The measurement in that review may have some flaws. First of all, the scale is a bit odd, making it seem worse then the way these graphs are typically scaled. It only uses a 30 dB scale in the amplitude range. That will makes peaks and dips look worse than they do in normal graphs which use about a 50 dB scale. Second, it is a bit strange to take the graph all the way out to 40 kHz. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Third, I am betting this response came from measuring this speaker too close. Klipsch designs their larger towers for a 3 meter use. If you measure at 1 meter for a speaker of this design type and size, you will definitely see a dip at the crossover. A speaker like this needs space for the sound of the drivers to integrate. I think that if measured at 2 to 3 meters, that dip would shore up. I don't know how they measured those speakers, but my hunch is that they probably measure better if done so with a technique that is more befitting of that design. Furthermore, an on-axis response is not enough to characterize the sound of a speaker. I wouldn't be so quick to write the RF-7 IIIs off by looking at that measurement. Don't read too much into that measurement, I don't think it is telling us very much about that speaker.
You make salient points. I didn’t look into the methodology like I should have. You definitely wouldn’t want to measure for response at one meter on big floorstanders like this. I just wish I could find some decent charts on these RF-7 iii. This is the closest I’ve found to some on axis measurements.
 
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