Davemcc Audioholic Spartan Jan 10, 2007 6,561 0 0 The Satellite of Love Jul 18, 2007 #81 Warpdrv said: Your on the right track avaserfi.... Sometimes its just one thing at a time... Glad to see you are getting into bass traps, thats awesome... Don't let those pushy bastar@s drain your wallet to quickly. What are you looking at for BFD's? I got a great deal on my Velodyne SMS-1, if your interested in that unit, I am able to pass on the info if you want... I paid $470.00 shipped, NEW... Click to expand... Would you share your source with me. Pretty please and thank you. I think its time for me to jump in and do some serious tuning on my subs.
Warpdrv said: Your on the right track avaserfi.... Sometimes its just one thing at a time... Glad to see you are getting into bass traps, thats awesome... Don't let those pushy bastar@s drain your wallet to quickly. What are you looking at for BFD's? I got a great deal on my Velodyne SMS-1, if your interested in that unit, I am able to pass on the info if you want... I paid $470.00 shipped, NEW... Click to expand... Would you share your source with me. Pretty please and thank you. I think its time for me to jump in and do some serious tuning on my subs.
Buckle-meister Audioholic Field Marshall May 23, 2005 1,743 0 0 51 London (as good as) Jul 18, 2007 #82 Tomorrow said: ...my opposite-corner located subs, with opposing phasing, dropped 20dB peaks to <5dB and generally smoothed out the entire 20-80 FR. Click to expand... I'm gonna try this! I did already, with pretty poor results. However, the phase on both subs was the same. I'll have another go with the phase 180 degrees apart. Fingers crossed! (cause this room's response's appalling )
Tomorrow said: ...my opposite-corner located subs, with opposing phasing, dropped 20dB peaks to <5dB and generally smoothed out the entire 20-80 FR. Click to expand... I'm gonna try this! I did already, with pretty poor results. However, the phase on both subs was the same. I'll have another go with the phase 180 degrees apart. Fingers crossed! (cause this room's response's appalling )
Tomorrow Audioholic Ninja Mar 4, 2005 4,321 0 113 Jul 18, 2007 #83 Buckle-meister said: I'm gonna try this! I did already, with pretty poor results. However, the phase on both subs was the same. I'll have another go with the phase 180 degrees apart. Fingers crossed! (cause this room's response's appalling ) Click to expand... I thought you added a mess o' acoustic panels...? Robbie, I too had a terrible response with both subs in phase while diagnally placed. Flipping one phase 180 degrees was like magic. Instant, almost perfectly flat FR, 20-100 Hz.
Buckle-meister said: I'm gonna try this! I did already, with pretty poor results. However, the phase on both subs was the same. I'll have another go with the phase 180 degrees apart. Fingers crossed! (cause this room's response's appalling ) Click to expand... I thought you added a mess o' acoustic panels...? Robbie, I too had a terrible response with both subs in phase while diagnally placed. Flipping one phase 180 degrees was like magic. Instant, almost perfectly flat FR, 20-100 Hz.
Buckle-meister Audioholic Field Marshall May 23, 2005 1,743 0 0 51 London (as good as) Jul 19, 2007 #84 Tomorrow said: I thought you added a mess o' acoustic panels...? Click to expand... Sort of. 1. Because the new living room's smaller than the last, I don't have as many traps in the room as I did previously (even though, conversely, I probably require more to achieve the same benefit). 2. The influence of the panels is, I believe, less because the negative influence of the (smaller) room is more. Will try the phase thingymajig tonight and report back.
Tomorrow said: I thought you added a mess o' acoustic panels...? Click to expand... Sort of. 1. Because the new living room's smaller than the last, I don't have as many traps in the room as I did previously (even though, conversely, I probably require more to achieve the same benefit). 2. The influence of the panels is, I believe, less because the negative influence of the (smaller) room is more. Will try the phase thingymajig tonight and report back.
Buckle-meister Audioholic Field Marshall May 23, 2005 1,743 0 0 51 London (as good as) Jul 19, 2007 #85 Tomorrow said: I too had a terrible response with both subs in phase while diagnally placed. Flipping one phase 180 degrees was like magic. Click to expand... Magic eh? Mmm, not in this room it aint. Oh well, back to the drawing board I guess.
Tomorrow said: I too had a terrible response with both subs in phase while diagnally placed. Flipping one phase 180 degrees was like magic. Click to expand... Magic eh? Mmm, not in this room it aint. Oh well, back to the drawing board I guess.
Tomorrow Audioholic Ninja Mar 4, 2005 4,321 0 113 Jul 19, 2007 #86 Buckle-meister said: Magic eh? Mmm, not in this room it aint. Oh well, back to the drawing board I guess. Click to expand... Looks more like the Alps than an FR graph.
Buckle-meister said: Magic eh? Mmm, not in this room it aint. Oh well, back to the drawing board I guess. Click to expand... Looks more like the Alps than an FR graph.
Buckle-meister Audioholic Field Marshall May 23, 2005 1,743 0 0 51 London (as good as) Jul 19, 2007 #87 Tomorrow said: Looks more like the Alps than an FR graph. Click to expand... Or perhaps an EEG of my brain activity on a quiet day.
Tomorrow said: Looks more like the Alps than an FR graph. Click to expand... Or perhaps an EEG of my brain activity on a quiet day.
Warpdrv Audioholic Ninja Dec 13, 2006 4,260 0 0 @ Milwaukee, WI Jul 23, 2007 #88 Buckle-meister said: Or perhaps an EEG of my brain activity on a quiet day. Click to expand... Here's mine before and after cocktails...
Buckle-meister said: Or perhaps an EEG of my brain activity on a quiet day. Click to expand... Here's mine before and after cocktails...
avaserfi Audioholic Ninja Mar 4, 2007 3,295 0 113 40 College Station, TX Jul 23, 2007 #89 Well I just got back to Ames from visiting my parents in Texas. All the panels (17 total) are completed and I will be putting them up and making frequency response graphs as well as a primer on how to build them since I made a variety of sizes. I am expecting everything to be completed by the end of the week.
Well I just got back to Ames from visiting my parents in Texas. All the panels (17 total) are completed and I will be putting them up and making frequency response graphs as well as a primer on how to build them since I made a variety of sizes. I am expecting everything to be completed by the end of the week.
avaserfi Audioholic Ninja Mar 4, 2007 3,295 0 113 40 College Station, TX Jul 23, 2007 #90 Installed the treatments. Here is the new graph: I will post pics of the treatments themselves later. I was going to do a write up about them and a how to, but right now do not have time. I might do it later this weekend.
Installed the treatments. Here is the new graph: I will post pics of the treatments themselves later. I was going to do a write up about them and a how to, but right now do not have time. I might do it later this weekend.
mtrycrafts Seriously, I have no life. Aug 19, 2004 23,549 0 113 Jul 23, 2007 #91 avaserfi said: Installed the treatments. Here is the new graph: I will post pics of the treatments themselves later. I was going to do a write up about them and a how to, but right now do not have time. I might do it later this weekend. Click to expand... That Behringer FBD can flatten it.
avaserfi said: Installed the treatments. Here is the new graph: I will post pics of the treatments themselves later. I was going to do a write up about them and a how to, but right now do not have time. I might do it later this weekend. Click to expand... That Behringer FBD can flatten it.
avaserfi Audioholic Ninja Mar 4, 2007 3,295 0 113 40 College Station, TX Jul 23, 2007 #92 mtrycrafts said: That Behringer FBD can flatten it. Click to expand... SMS-1 in the mail should do the job. Warpdrv talked me into it he knows a guy .
mtrycrafts said: That Behringer FBD can flatten it. Click to expand... SMS-1 in the mail should do the job. Warpdrv talked me into it he knows a guy .
B bpape Audioholic Chief Jan 31, 2005 944 0 43 Eureka, MO (St. Louis) www.sensiblesoundsolutions.com Jul 24, 2007 #93 Play with speaker and seating placement until you get to a curve where you have peaks and have minimized the large nulls. In general, you can't EQ out dips in response. Good Luck Bryan
Play with speaker and seating placement until you get to a curve where you have peaks and have minimized the large nulls. In general, you can't EQ out dips in response. Good Luck Bryan
avaserfi Audioholic Ninja Mar 4, 2007 3,295 0 113 40 College Station, TX Jul 24, 2007 #94 bpape said: Play with speaker and seating placement until you get to a curve where you have peaks and have minimized the large nulls. In general, you can't EQ out dips in response. Good Luck Bryan Click to expand... Thanks that was the next step. I was wondering if anyone who had experience with Room EQ Wizard could comment on how accurate it is for a full range measurement. I took some for the first time yesterday and it seems a little crazy with dips and peaks everywhere especially the high end. Is my room just that crappy or does REW not do a great job at high end mixed with a radio shack SPL for a mic.
bpape said: Play with speaker and seating placement until you get to a curve where you have peaks and have minimized the large nulls. In general, you can't EQ out dips in response. Good Luck Bryan Click to expand... Thanks that was the next step. I was wondering if anyone who had experience with Room EQ Wizard could comment on how accurate it is for a full range measurement. I took some for the first time yesterday and it seems a little crazy with dips and peaks everywhere especially the high end. Is my room just that crappy or does REW not do a great job at high end mixed with a radio shack SPL for a mic.
avaserfi Audioholic Ninja Mar 4, 2007 3,295 0 113 40 College Station, TX Jul 24, 2007 #95 Here is a picture of the completed treatments. The one standing up is 4ft x 1ft with many more stacked behind it.
Here is a picture of the completed treatments. The one standing up is 4ft x 1ft with many more stacked behind it.
mike c Audioholic Warlord Jul 27, 2005 9,514 0 113 Manila Jul 24, 2007 #96 damn, I hate you DIY guys. nice work! make sure to measure before and after treatments I'm still sitting on the cloth and guntacker I bought. dilly dallying making my own treatments.
damn, I hate you DIY guys. nice work! make sure to measure before and after treatments I'm still sitting on the cloth and guntacker I bought. dilly dallying making my own treatments.
OttoMatic Senior Audioholic Jul 8, 2007 657 0 0 Jul 24, 2007 #97 avaserfi said: Thanks that was the next step. I was wondering if anyone who had experience with Room EQ Wizard could comment on how accurate it is for a full range measurement. Click to expand... Hi there, It's not so much REW itself, but more the room interactions and the RS SPL meter that will make things crazy. IIRC, the RS SPL meter isn't so hot for accurate measurements above something like 5kHz. If you are doing full-range measurement with both mains active, you may experience some comb filtering effects if the output from both speakers don't reach the mic at precisely the same time; try measuring one at a time and see if things are any better. Also, room reflections will combine (or not) with the directly radiated signal for a similar effect. If you are working at all with room treatments, you should see an improvement in your "after" plots. You may also be able to gain some clarity by applying "smoothing" to your plot. I would probably start with 1/6 octave smoothing, and perhaps to go to 1/3 octave from there. It will definitely remove some of the "peakiness" that you are seeing in your full-range measurements. You can find the smoothing options in the "Trace Adjustments" drop-down control on the left side of REW (assuming you're using V4.00 or greater). Full-range measurements with REW, or any other tool for that matter, have some benefit in showing trends. However, I wouldn't consider it a valid method to be used to determine full-range EQ, as it's just to non-deterministic. Good luck!
avaserfi said: Thanks that was the next step. I was wondering if anyone who had experience with Room EQ Wizard could comment on how accurate it is for a full range measurement. Click to expand... Hi there, It's not so much REW itself, but more the room interactions and the RS SPL meter that will make things crazy. IIRC, the RS SPL meter isn't so hot for accurate measurements above something like 5kHz. If you are doing full-range measurement with both mains active, you may experience some comb filtering effects if the output from both speakers don't reach the mic at precisely the same time; try measuring one at a time and see if things are any better. Also, room reflections will combine (or not) with the directly radiated signal for a similar effect. If you are working at all with room treatments, you should see an improvement in your "after" plots. You may also be able to gain some clarity by applying "smoothing" to your plot. I would probably start with 1/6 octave smoothing, and perhaps to go to 1/3 octave from there. It will definitely remove some of the "peakiness" that you are seeing in your full-range measurements. You can find the smoothing options in the "Trace Adjustments" drop-down control on the left side of REW (assuming you're using V4.00 or greater). Full-range measurements with REW, or any other tool for that matter, have some benefit in showing trends. However, I wouldn't consider it a valid method to be used to determine full-range EQ, as it's just to non-deterministic. Good luck!
avaserfi Audioholic Ninja Mar 4, 2007 3,295 0 113 40 College Station, TX Jul 24, 2007 #98 Mine were a little more complicated than that. My dad is an "amateur" wood worker so I had access to some nicer tools but it could have been easily done without them. Like I said earlier I plan on making a write up...hopefully this week. We will see though. I took measurements of the low end before and after, but the high end readings really did not seem accurate in either case, before or after, and I am not sure if it is room eq wizard or the fact that my radio shack spl is my mic. Trying to find answers before I post those. The old low end graphs are somewhere in this thread. I also plan on playing with speaker/seating positioning at some point during the week. edit: Thanks Otto Ill look into your suggestions and see what I can do. I knew it wouldn't be the best measurements but I also knew they would be better than nothing. Last edited: Jul 24, 2007
Mine were a little more complicated than that. My dad is an "amateur" wood worker so I had access to some nicer tools but it could have been easily done without them. Like I said earlier I plan on making a write up...hopefully this week. We will see though. I took measurements of the low end before and after, but the high end readings really did not seem accurate in either case, before or after, and I am not sure if it is room eq wizard or the fact that my radio shack spl is my mic. Trying to find answers before I post those. The old low end graphs are somewhere in this thread. I also plan on playing with speaker/seating positioning at some point during the week. edit: Thanks Otto Ill look into your suggestions and see what I can do. I knew it wouldn't be the best measurements but I also knew they would be better than nothing.
B bpape Audioholic Chief Jan 31, 2005 944 0 43 Eureka, MO (St. Louis) www.sensiblesoundsolutions.com Jul 24, 2007 #99 Measuring any room with any mic and software will show tons of 'sawtooth' response as you get higher in frequency. The modes just keep getting closer and closer together to a point where your brain just ignores it - just the way it is. Realistically, pay attention to 300Hz and below. That's where you can have a major impact on how things sound, dialog clarity, system impact, bass extension, etc. Bryan
Measuring any room with any mic and software will show tons of 'sawtooth' response as you get higher in frequency. The modes just keep getting closer and closer together to a point where your brain just ignores it - just the way it is. Realistically, pay attention to 300Hz and below. That's where you can have a major impact on how things sound, dialog clarity, system impact, bass extension, etc. Bryan
avaserfi Audioholic Ninja Mar 4, 2007 3,295 0 113 40 College Station, TX Jul 25, 2007 #100 So I had to remove one of the bass traps I put up due to WAF issues (had to get her flowers to keep the rest) but its all good. This graph is a full range one Black is before and purple is after. Any suggestions? I will be posting placement pictures as soon as I get borrow a digital camera. I have been trying to get rid of that huge dip at at around 50Hz but just can't manage :-/. It seems as if the treatments have helped the mid/high range more than the lower.
So I had to remove one of the bass traps I put up due to WAF issues (had to get her flowers to keep the rest) but its all good. This graph is a full range one Black is before and purple is after. Any suggestions? I will be posting placement pictures as soon as I get borrow a digital camera. I have been trying to get rid of that huge dip at at around 50Hz but just can't manage :-/. It seems as if the treatments have helped the mid/high range more than the lower.
