Subwoofer Advice - looking for a pair on a low budget

[William Lemmerhirt]

I know.

I will see what I can find. This adventure was started by the guy offering the Paradigm PS-1000. Do new subwoofers offer something 10, 20, or 30 year old subwoofers do not?

Yes.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

If OP has access to some tools, he could build some Sonotube Subs using the Dayton HF15"... those are $239 each. 18" SonoTube is pretty cheep. A few other parts... Most expensive part would be getting an Amp to drive them... But I'd say $600 would build 2 subs... And A Behringer NX3000D is under $400.

Yes, out of budget all told, but the result will be some pretty good bass at under $500 per Sub.

Yes. This. I’ve built some sonosubs. For little money, you can build an LLT to destroy many commercial subs. Hell, local concrete place can cut the tube, and with even a simple jigsaw cut the baffles. Amp, driver, done. PE even has the same grills and stuff that svs used to use on older PC’s. Easy vinyl wrap done.
Otherwise I agree with the early nod to sub1200’s. Iirc they measured better than the 1500’s.
There’s even this.

Sonosub - Free Speaker Design Software

Free speaker design software allows easy selection of tube and port size to attain desired tuning frequency

www.subwoofer-builder.com

 

[ryanosaur]

Roughly 18”ø x 54” long sonotube. Uncertain about the port size…

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Roughly 18”ø x 54” long sonotube. Uncertain about the port size…

Even awhile since I modeled one. But 16x40 with a 4x12” port should be around 18hz tune. I think a Dayton UM with an inuke X2 would be pretty amazing.
Fwiw, iirc three 3” ports @16” length equals the same tune but more output via more port surface. I’d have to calculate in the sono software.

 

[vader540is]

I know.

I will see what I can find. This adventure was started by the guy offering the Paradigm PS-1000. Do new subwoofers offer something 10, 20, or 30 year old subwoofers do not?

I have owned many PS-1000 & PS-1200 version V1-V4


All have had amp failures. The surrounds also needed to be replaced.

Save your $$$ for a high quality sub from SVS, HSU & Rythmik.

Or bump up your budget to Power Sound Audio, JTR, Deepsea sound & FUNK.

Or you can DIY or AIY with GSG subwoofers.

 

[Fried Chicken]

If OP has access to some tools, he could build some Sonotube Subs using the Dayton HF15"... those are $239 each. 18" SonoTube is pretty cheep. A few other parts... Most expensive part would be getting an Amp to drive them... But I'd say $600 would build 2 subs... And A Behringer NX3000D is under $400.

Yes, out of budget all told, but the result will be some pretty good bass at under $500 per Sub.

This is a good starting point.

I actually have a bunch of tools for woodworking and electronics out right now. My hope is there are detailed existing plans that I wouldn't have to do the design work myself. I've already opened the pandora's box of woodworking and electronics. I don't have the mental energy for custom design. My guess would be the power amp needs a strong damping factor?

Yes. This. I’ve built some sonosubs. For little money, you can build an LLT to destroy many commercial subs. Hell, local concrete place can cut the tube, and with even a simple jigsaw cut the baffles. Amp, driver, done. PE even has the same grills and stuff that svs used to use on older PC’s. Easy vinyl wrap done.
Otherwise I agree with the early nod to sub1200’s. Iirc they measured better than the 1500’s.
There’s even this.

Sonosub - Free Speaker Design Software

Free speaker design software allows easy selection of tube and port size to attain desired tuning frequency

www.subwoofer-builder.com

I may reach out to you in the not too distant future. Is a Sonosub a special type of subwoofer, or just the software? What's an LLT? What's PC?

 

[ryanosaur]

It’s not a difficult design. Once you know the volume and port dimensions, it’s really just a matter of assembly… port, two ends, port in one, driver in the other, wiring… maybe a few braces, but not really necessary. Finish is optional.

 

[lovinthehd]

This is a good starting point.

I actually have a bunch of tools for woodworking and electronics out right now. My hope is there are detailed existing plans that I wouldn't have to do the design work myself. I've already opened the pandora's box of woodworking and electronics. I don't have the mental energy for custom design. My guess would be the power amp needs a strong damping factor?



I may reach out to you in the not too distant future. Is a Sonosub a special type of subwoofer, or just the software? What's an LLT? What's PC?

Sonosub refers to a sub from a tube from like cement forming needs.....an LLT is a very low tuning of a ported sub, often requires quite a large volume enclosaure, PC is what SVS called a ported enclosure in a tube form.

 

[ryanosaur]

I like the 18" tube because it helps keep it shorter with pretty minimal impact to the footprint. 16" won't change it by much, but I'd expect roughly an extra foot in length, perhaps(?).
Everything in Subs is tradeoff. The lower the tuning. the less output efficiency. That Dayton driver I mentioned above is a pretty good driver. There are other options, too, but they all come with a limitation here or there. One might require more power, one might require a bigger cabinet volume, etc.

 

[Fried Chicken]

Just curious, how do you plan to have stereo bass when bass is omnidirectional and not localizable..?

I'm not convinced this is true. There are, however, other reasons one wants stereo subwoofers beyond just localizability. Some of it has to do with the recording of 2-channel music, and how nuances are lost when they are mixed into one.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm not convinced this is true. There are, however, other reasons one wants stereo subwoofers beyond just localizability. Some of it has to do with the recording of 2-channel music, and how nuances are lost when they are mixed into one.

Convinced? So you have significant examples otherwise? Seems in most cases it's been summed at the recording, so just what recordings does this make a differnece ta and why at this particular frequency range? Seems rather limited in scope

 

[Fried Chicken]

Convinced? So you have significant examples otherwise? Seems in most cases it's been summed at the recording, so just what recordings does this make a differnece ta and why at this particular frequency range? Seems rather limited in scope

Stereo Subwoofers: Why Every Man Needs Two

 

[Fried Chicken]

If OP has access to some tools, he could build some Sonotube Subs using the Dayton HF15"... those are $239 each. 18" SonoTube is pretty cheep. A few other parts... Most expensive part would be getting an Amp to drive them... But I'd say $600 would build 2 subs... And A Behringer NX3000D is under $400.

Yes, out of budget all told, but the result will be some pretty good bass at under $500 per Sub.

I just ran the numbers on this.... $500 per sub

That's unfortunately too rich for me. The Behringer NX3000D looks pretty incredible for what it offers. The Dayton HF15's look like they've skyrocketed in price. They seem pretty popular.

I literally have all the tools I need for building subwoofers though: electronics and woodworking. I just finished a massive woodworking project, and my next step is a massive electronics project.

I'm almost tempted to build several and sell the extras to recoup the costs....
no. No, I will not do that. I refuse.

 

[ryanosaur]

This is the balance point… you can throw good money at imperfect solutions or you can flip the script and look at it as a long term investment in quality bass.
Build one to start and get the amplifier as soon as you can. Build the second sub when you can.
You will come out much further ahead.
It is your ducats; this is not lost on me.
It is simply a long-game plan on how to get what you want rather than spend on sub-standard solutions. Your approach will keep you spending because what you want is simply not available at the budget you set, thus you will spend more down the line trying to solve for this again.

 

[Pogre]

It is simply a long-game plan on how to get what you want rather than spend on sub-standard solutions. Your approach will keep you spending because what you want is simply not available at the budget you set, thus you will spend more down the line trying to solve for this again.

Right. I almost typed earlier that he's on the path of buy cheaper to spend more.

I think Ryan and I are on the same page here in that you should focus on one sub right now and get it set up as optimally as you can. A single sub can work very well with proper setup, and when more funds become available you can add the second one and set up your stereo bass.

Whether you go with something like the RSL Speedwoofer or go the diy route you'll come much, much closer to your goals with a more realistic budget and a long game patient approach. It does sound like you have some tools and know how to use them. The diy option will cost you a little bit up front, but get the right amp and the second sub (or third, or fourth... ) will be a fraction of the cost to add later.

 

[Pogre]

I'm not convinced this is true.

You can be unconvinced all you want, but the laws of physics and studies conducted on the way we perceive sound make it pretty damned clear that this is the case, lol.

If you cross them over high enough and use a full range signal maybe you can get a sense of stereo separation but didn't you say earlier that you wouldn't be crossing any higher than 50 or 80 hz? The reason 80 hz is commonly used is because that's right at the edge of being localizable for humans. Anything below that becomes even more non-localizable.

 

[Pogre]

I just ran the numbers on this.... $500 per sub

Now wait a minute. Is it $500 per sub or $500 for the first sub and the second one should be much cheaper if you get a good amp to start with? That's where diy starts becoming more cost effective. When you get a big enough amp future add ons cost less.

 

[ryanosaur]

Now wait a minute. Is it $500 per sub or $500 for the first sub and the second one should be much cheaper if you get a good amp to start with? That's where diy starts becoming more cost effective. When you get a big enough amp future add ons cost less.

I didn't list it out clearly, but the numbers are there...
$240 per Driver, assuming the Dayton 15" Reference HF
~$100 for basic materials (not including finishing)
Amp is $390, assuming the NX3000D (2 channel, Behringer DSP)
So all told, project could come in under $1000 for 2 subs +new amp, assuming nothing exorbitant is done

(A Behry NU3000 DSP would be less expensive still, but not available, currently)

Of course, pricing is always subject to local costs.

I have a White Cap near me that is offering good price on Sonotube cut to size, charged by the foot. Way more affordable than buying sheets of MDF.

 

[Pogre]

I didn't list it out clearly, but the numbers are there...
$240 per Driver, assuming the Dayton 15" Reference HF
~$100 for basic materials (not including finishing)
Amp is $390, assuming the NX3000D (2 channel, Behringer DSP)
So all told, project could come in under $1000 for 2 subs +new amp, assuming nothing exorbitant is done

(A Behry NU3000 DSP would be less expensive still, but not available, currently)

Of course, pricing is always subject to local costs.

I have a White Cap near me that is offering good price on Sonotube cut to size, charged by the foot. Way more affordable than buying sheets of MDF.

Eesh. More than I remembered. I forgot I had priced everything out when I was shopping and realized it wouldn't be much savings over just buying from HSU.

Sonotube might be the way to go. Cylinders look cool too and the shape is inherently stiffer for subs.

*Edit: The NX3000D is the amp I got with that RBH sub!

 

[ryanosaur]

Eesh. More than I remembered. I forgot I had priced everything out when i was shopping and realized it wouldn't be much savings over just buying from HSU.

Sonotube might be the way to go. Cylinders look cool too and the shape is inherently stiffer for subs.

*Edit: The NX3000D is the amp I got with that RBH sub!

Yes.
The Hsu VTF 2 is still one of the best buys in Subwoofage, bang-for-the-buck style... Regardless, $609 ea +$95 S/H for the single unit.

I am at a loss to really offer a better solution, new, OEM vs DIY.

Money could be saved on Raw Drivers, but at what cost to the final product? Higher distortion, questionable performance? But their are less expensive ones, and an NU3000DSP on the used market if OP is lucky... ???
*shrugs
Again, Bang For The Buck.
If he builds these well, they are foundational Subs that he can use for 10years+. Same with a new Hsu.

Another option is if he can find a deal on the preferred JBL 12" Drivers, he could build a Boss Platform for very little money. Amplification would still be the kicker.

Beyond thata, NEW, the Sub 1200 is likely the best option. Otherwise its old used subs and fartboxes at the whim of his local CL or FB Marketplace.
*shrugs