Something to think about when listening to your receiver, or using you iPad or iPhone

[lsiberian]

I was a union ironworker in the 1980's- (Local 63 Ornamental Ironworkers). I was a young man and had voted for Ron Regan in my first presidential election as one of the digruntled union regan democrats. It went downhill from there as Ron proved to be really anti union.

It is made in China by people you have nothing in common with, and really could care less about.

I drive a Toyota, own an iPhone and buy cheap clothes and drive many miles per week. I am not as bad as some, but we for the most part are in a real mess- all in pursuit of the American dream that was built on pollution, deception, use of natural resources and greed. Funny that we are watching China do the same thing and find it ugly.

I don't understand the anti-Chinese sentiments, but maybe I'm too young and too global in my worldview.

 

[dseng]

I don't understand the anti-Chinese sentiments, but maybe I'm too young and too global in my worldview.

It's all about who wins and who loses. Life isn't like so many have been taught in school where "everybody wins and nobody loses".

One steak - two dogs.

 

[davidtwotrees]

I don't understand the anti-Chinese sentiments, but maybe I'm too young and too global in my worldview.

It is less anti-chinese and more pro-american. There are hidden costs to buying foreign goods. To my mind the benefits of paying quite a bit more for the same product made in my homeland is glaringly obvious, but most of my citizens disagree and will buy a product at the cheapest price possible because that is best for them............but in the big picture it is very harmful to our country, imho.
And now I have given up spouting that philosophy because we are so far down the rabbit hole that only a miracle can bring back affordable American made products. Maybe if oil hits $500 a barrel the imports will stop and buying local will be forced upon us.
I am in The Matrix eating filet mignon.

 

[3db]

I don't understand the anti-Chinese sentiments, but maybe I'm too young and too global in my worldview.

Although I"m Canadian and offshoring to cheaper labour markets isn't as prevalent for us as the US, I will share my thought on this. In the long run (and its starting to show in the US with a sharp decline of the middle class) very few people benefit from offshoring. The benefits go to the corporate elite and a few measly shareholders and the populations that used to be gainfully employed have now lost their jobs.

You tell me the benefits to the US of this move except for the BJs and money offered up by the corp elite of this company to the crooked politicians that is allowing this to happen.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/860633-post23.html

One can rationalize BS a dozen ways to China but in the end, only the corp greedy ones win while the average citizen loses out big time.

 

[jonnythan]

I hate how Chinese factory conditions have been linked to Apple products.

The truth is that every electronic device is made there. Whether your MP3 player or smartphone says Apple, Samsung, whatever, chances are it was made in these Chinese factories. Same with computer motherboards, LCDs, etc.

I'm also not convinced these workers would be better off if the factories didn't exist. They would probably either be unemployed or working 18 hour days on a farm.

 

[lsiberian]

It's all about who wins and who loses. Life isn't like so many have been taught in school where "everybody wins and nobody loses".

One steak - two dogs.

If we get non-producers producing doesn't that lead to more steaks.

 

[3db]

If we get non-producers producing doesn't that lead to more steaks.

No. Because it doesn't work as simple as that.

 

[adwilk]

If we get non-producers producing doesn't that lead to more steaks.

Actually, yeah... I do think its that simple. But its completely contradictory of the human condition and it just isnt going to happen. As the need to produce declines, so does production.

Unfortunately, there's no clear way to a solution when its not seen by the masses as a problem.

My small manufacturing company in SC only sources domestically made parts and labor. We actually target smaller companies that import (strangled by cash flow issues and time) and work to provide any sourcing and assembly to keep everything as local as we can. In this economic climate, as long as we present all the significant value points, we can compete all day long. We don't have inflated salaries and "fluff" positions.

Its become clear to me that the structure of large organizations would have to be drastically changed to bring a real manufacturing presence back to the states.

 

[lsiberian]

Unfortunately, there's no clear way to a solution when its not seen by the masses as a problem.

My small manufacturing company in SC only sources domestically made parts and labor. We actually target smaller companies that import (strangled by cash flow issues and time) and work to provide any sourcing and assembly to keep everything as local as we can. In this economic climate, as long as we present all the significant value points, we can compete all day long. We don't have inflated salaries and "fluff" positions.

Its become clear to me that the structure of large organizations would have to be drastically changed to bring a real manufacturing presence back to the states.

It is interesting to see how we adapt, but Americans have been using cheap labor for goods since the beginning.

 

[dseng]

If we get non-producers producing doesn't that lead to more steaks.

Getting American non-producers producing goods will lead to more steaks. Absolutely. That's what the "it's pro-American, not anti-Chinese" comments are all about. BUT...the reality is that there aren't an infinite number of steaks to go around.

Every product built in China and shipped to the US for sale is a product that will not be built in the US. (just using China as the example here - you can substitute any foreign country in place of China) Just as in our own individual personal lives - value is inextricably tied to what we can produce and sell.

More and more the US economy is looking like a shell game - we're producing and selling less to our competitors (other countries). Much of the economy is linked to simply moving money around - but you have to do that faster and faster and faster to hide the fact that there's nothing getting more of that money. An economy built on services (services consumed by citizens, not foreign countries) just stirs the money pot around and redistributes it.

Change the steak analogy to 1000 steaks. That's all of the steaks in the world. And for simplicity's sake, say there are only 50 countries with the steaks even distributed. If EVERYONE decided that they were perfectly happy with their twenty steaks and they just wanted to pass them around within their own country life would be fine (it's their stagnant economy). Boring, but fine. But let one country decide that they want 30 steaks and the whole thing changes. Now they have to figure out a way to get somebody else's steaks. They can steal them (war) or trade goods/services for them. But somebody is going to wind up with less and somebody with more. Winners and losers. Way over-simplified, but that's the way the world turns.

I worked for a guy once who told me, "every year we need to sell more products." At age 25 I thought he was crazy, that there was no way he could expect to accomplish that. But years later I realized that what he was really saying was, "If we're not growing, we're dying".

 

[Alex2507]

If the republicans win this election maybe we can invade China.

 

[3db]

Actually, yeah... I do think its that simple. But its completely contradictory of the human condition and it just isnt going to happen. As the need to produce declines, so does production.

Unfortunately, there's no clear way to a solution when its not seen by the masses as a problem.

My small manufacturing company in SC only sources domestically made parts and labor. We actually target smaller companies that import (strangled by cash flow issues and time) and work to provide any sourcing and assembly to keep everything as local as we can. In this economic climate, as long as we present all the significant value points, we can compete all day long. We don't have inflated salaries and "fluff" positions.

Its become clear to me that the structure of large organizations would have to be drastically changed to bring a real manufacturing presence back to the states.

If this outsourcing trend continues, most Americans will not be able to afford steak. No work means no money means no steak. It doesn't get simpler than that.

 

[3db]

If the republicans win this election maybe we can invade China.

Yeah...flood there economy with cheaply made goods from NA

 

[jonnythan]

If Americans don't have the money to buy Chinese hoods, what do you think happens to China?

 

[dseng]

If Americans don't have the money to buy Chinese hoods, what do you think happens to China?

The Triads starting upping the ante on their protection schemes...

 

[lsiberian]

If Americans don't have the money to buy Chinese hoods, what do you think happens to China?

I see that's what this is all about the hoods. So we trade rap for kung fu. I'm game.

 

[redgirl]

I see that's what this is all about the hoods. So we trade rap for kung fu. I'm game.

Oooh yeah! I love Kung Fu!!

This story, honestly, is tragic. Sometimes we can't change the way the world works but we can change what we do to affect the world.

Mr Daisey is an amazing storyteller with quite the story to tell. Does he have a website? I want to see the pictures from this trip. I just keep saying wow. The story of the man with the crushed hand is absolutely tragic!

I really like that this podcast plays Mr. Daisey's story, talks about it, checks the credibility, and interviews other people. I've never heard of ThisAmericanLife.org, do they always have audio like this?

 

[adwilk]

If this outsourcing trend continues, most Americans will not be able to afford steak. No work means no money means no steak. It doesn't get simpler than that.

But the real problem exists because Americans are programmed to think they are too good to produce steak- and can only consume steak of the highest quality. By Americans I mean the top 1 percent. Its sad.

 

[3db]

I don't understand the anti-Chinese sentiments, but maybe I'm too young and too global in my worldview.

Read this. I've been preaching against outsourcing since the comcept started over 10 years ago. I coined the phrase financial feudal system and thats whats going to happen, either that or another revolution against crooked politicians regardless of party and the minority who have reaped huge financial benefits to outsourcing.


Disturbing Statistics on the Decline of America's Middle Class - DailyFinance

http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/08/news/economy/global_income_inequality/index.htm

 

[lsiberian]

Read this. I've been preaching against outsourcing since the comcept started over 10 years ago. I coined the phrase financial feudal system and thats whats going to happen, either that or another revolution against crooked politicians regardless of party and the minority who have reaped huge financial benefits to outsourcing.


Disturbing Statistics on the Decline of America's Middle Class - DailyFinance

Global income inequality: Where the U.S. ranks - Nov. 8, 2011

The middle class is in trouble because they let the banks scam them out of their money through mortgages, car loans and student loans.