Someone PLEASE Help Me Understand Why This is Happening with my DP-UB9000...

Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
Was UHD Color for the HDMI input on the TV set to OFF at any point? That would change things. Did you find your display infirmation?
I cannot seem to attach the documents here because it keeps saying the file is too large (I took a picture of the menu you asked for last night); is there another way to get this to you?
 
Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
I' worried that you will end up changing some setting and have trouble getting back to square one. I guess if the player is sending 4/K60P 4:4:4 and you have a good picture, then the TV must be accepting it.
There's nothing that can really screw me up and send it back to square one.

The player is saying that it can output 60P 4:4:4 in that main HDMI menu, but when I play actual DISCS, the player's output data is claiming that 4K Blu-rays are playing at 4:4:4 12-Bit (but at 24FPS for Blu-ray content), which ISN'T supposed to be correct for MY display...it DIDN'T read this prior to me originally resetting the Quick Settings adjustments. This is why what is going on makes ZERO sense.
 
Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
Don't worry about TLS Guy's comments on avrs, most speakers, avrs or Audyssey....he's clueless generally in all these thing despite his protestrations. He might recommend a brit tv monitor but I don't think there are any. He may as well go back to the old blimey for many of his "beliefs". He does have some good electrical and speaker design comments but even them some don't like his speakers....
But he was responding to my queries about televisions and video devices, not AVRs, speakers or Audyssey...he claimed, initially, that he had the same player in question.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic
Checking the display info in the TV menus will not change any of the TV settings. Now, you did not turn off UHD color in the TV settings. Now, for the player to display 4:4:4: at all would mean that the deep color setting in the player and the UHD color setting in the TV must both be on. Now, I suggest putting in a 4K disc and pulling up the Panansonic display to show 4:4:4 and then while disc is playing go into the TV settings and turn off UHD color on the HDMI input that is connected to the player. I also forgot to ask you how this is all hooked together in the first place. Which HDMI input? AVR in the chain? Anyway, after turning off UHD color, get out of the menus and you should see that the Panasonic display has changed to 4:2:2 because you have disabled UHD Color in the TV. You should be able to replicate this by turning UHD color back on in the TV and turning deep color off in the player. If I had to guess what has happened based on what you have said is that the TV UHD setting was indeed on. If you did not turn it off before you hit "Easy Settings" on the Panasonic, you would not be getting 4:4:4 now. So, I think that when you hit "Easy Settings" the deep color function was enabled in the Panasonic. I know you said everything was on Auto before the change but I can tell you that for it to do what it did in combination with that TV means that one or both of the devices had UHD Color/Deep Color disabled before you changed the settings. Also, the Panasonic can take the HDR out of HDR content and send it out in SDR. That feature may have been on and then off after the "Easy Setup". Refer to your Panasonic manual. Look over pages 10, 18, 30 and 31 to get more information about video output.. Do not confuse the Panasonic 4K/60p 4:4:4 setting with the TV's ability to display 4K/60p 4:4:4. You are seeing 4K/60p 4:4:4 because the TV can display it when the disc is 24fps. The TV cannot display it with a 4K 60fps disc. Try reducing the size of the image you have of the TV menu and try to put a thumbnail of it in your post.
 
Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
I will respond to everything you said as soon as I get a free second.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Checking the display info in the TV menus will not change any of the TV settings. Now, you did not turn off UHD color in the TV settings. Now, for the player to display 4:4:4: at all would mean that the deep color setting in the player and the UHD color setting in the TV must both be on. Now, I suggest putting in a 4K disc and pulling up the Panansonic display to show 4:4:4 and then while disc is playing go into the TV settings and turn off UHD color on the HDMI input that is connected to the player. I also forgot to ask you how this is all hooked together in the first place. Which HDMI input? AVR in the chain? Anyway, after turning off UHD color, get out of the menus and you should see that the Panasonic display has changed to 4:2:2 because you have disabled UHD Color in the TV. You should be able to replicate this by turning UHD color back on in the TV and turning deep color off in the player. If I had to guess what has happened based on what you have said is that the TV UHD setting was indeed on. If you did not turn it off before you hit "Easy Settings" on the Panasonic, you would not be getting 4:4:4 now. So, I think that when you hit "Easy Settings" the deep color function was enabled in the Panasonic. I know you said everything was on Auto before the change but I can tell you that for it to do what it did in combination with that TV means that one or both of the devices had UHD Color/Deep Color disabled before you changed the settings. Also, the Panasonic can take the HDR out of HDR content and send it out in SDR. That feature may have been on and then off after the "Easy Setup". Refer to your Panasonic manual. Look over pages 10, 18, 30 and 31 to get more information about video output.. Do not confuse the Panasonic 4K/60p 4:4:4 setting with the TV's ability to display 4K/60p 4:4:4. You are seeing 4K/60p 4:4:4 because the TV can display it when the disc is 24fps. The TV cannot display it with a 4K 60fps disc. Try reducing the size of the image you have of the TV menu and try to put a thumbnail of it in your post.
I'm absolutely certain there is nothing wrong with his Panasonic player. I have noticed that technology has reduced set up problems over years past. So now devices communicate better and will communicate optimally as a rule to produce the optimal result. I think that is what is happening here. I have had no complaints with my DP-UB 9000. So far I have not seen any valid reason for the OP to be dissatisfied with his either.
 
Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
I'm absolutely certain there is nothing wrong with his Panasonic player. I have noticed that technology has reduced set up problems over years past. So now devices communicate better and will communicate optimally as a rule to produce the optimal result. I think that is what is happening here. I have had no complaints with my DP-UB 9000. So far I have not seen any valid reason for the OP to be dissatisfied with his either.
OMG...

Do we STILL have to go through this? I wrote an ENTIRE response to your last commentary which explained why I'm thrilled that YOU have had no problems with YOUR unit, but I am obviously having something going on with MINE because something isn't reading correctly here. I don't understand how it is that you're helping exactly, but, again, if this is annoying you, please don't continue coming in here and saying "I'm sure everything is just perfect with his player" or "I have had nothing go wrong with mine."
 
Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
Checking the display info in the TV menus will not change any of the TV settings.
What do you mean?

Now, you did not turn off UHD color in the TV settings. Now, for the player to display 4:4:4: at all would mean that the deep color setting in the player and the UHD color setting in the TV must both be on.
As I stated, HDMI UHD Color was almost certainly ON during all this, but I will double-check again tonight. As for the player, the DEEP COLOR OUTPUT setting in the ADVANCED menu is set to AUTO (12-BIT PRIORITY).

I also forgot to ask you how this is all hooked together in the first place. Which HDMI input? AVR in the chain?
Okay. I'm running dual HDMI outs from the UB9000, the primary out going directly to the display (HDMI 2) and the audio only out going directly to an Onkyo TX-SR605 receiver for surround decoding via bitstream. These settings are correct in the player to configure the system like this; it's been triple and quadruple-checked.

Anyway, after turning off UHD color, get out of the menus and you should see that the Panasonic display has changed to 4:2:2 because you have disabled UHD Color in the TV.
But it was reading 4:2:2 BEFORE any of this happened -- when I first installed the player and had HDMI UHD Color ON for that input...

If I had to guess what has happened based on what you have said is that the TV UHD setting was indeed on. If you did not turn it off before you hit "Easy Settings" on the Panasonic, you would not be getting 4:4:4 now.
Wait a minute -- we may be on to something here...

I did NOT turn the HDMI UHD Color OFF before I did the Easy Settings again, but I didn't think this was necessary; at any rate, the TV seems to switch this automatically as soon as it senses something compliant (like a 4K Blu-ray player) is connected to that HDMI input.

It COULD be that by doing the factory reset in the player AND doing the Quick Settings again, it tripped up the Samsung and disengaged that HDMI UHD Color -- but now that I'm thinking about it, this wouldn't make any sense, being that if the UHD Color setting was OFF, I WOULDN'T be getting 4:4:4 12-Bit, correct?

So, I think that when you hit "Easy Settings" the deep color function was enabled in the Panasonic.
The ONLY "Deep Color" settings available in the player are via the DEEP COLOR OUTPUT selection in the ADVANCED sub-menu, and this defaults to AUTO (12-BIT PRIORITY).

I know you said everything was on Auto before the change but I can tell you that for it to do what it did in combination with that TV means that one or both of the devices had UHD Color/Deep Color disabled before you changed the settings.
I don't think this is possible -- but let me check if the UHD Color is actually engaged later and get back to you.

Also, the Panasonic can take the HDR out of HDR content and send it out in SDR. That feature may have been on and then off after the "Easy Setup". Refer to your Panasonic manual. Look over pages 10, 18, 30 and 31 to get more information about video output..
Yes, I'm aware of that feature -- it is under that HDR/COLOR GAMUT option, and this is DEFINITELY on HDR/BT.2020 (AUTO), which means that I'm NOT stripping HDR content and sending it out as SDR.

Do not confuse the Panasonic 4K/60p 4:4:4 setting with the TV's ability to display 4K/60p 4:4:4. You are seeing 4K/60p 4:4:4 because the TV can display it when the disc is 24fps.
Understood -- but why, then, was the player BEFORE THIS HAPPENED sending 4K content as 12-Bit 4:2:2? If the display CAN support 4:4:4 when the content is 24FPS, why did the player always send it out as 4:2:2? THIS is where something is going wrong...

Also -- that setup parameter under the primary HDMI menu for "4K60P OUTPUT" always read "4K/60P 4:2:0" BEFORE I messed with the Quick Settings...NOW, it reads 4:4:4...

What is going on here?

The TV cannot display it with a 4K 60fps disc.
I understand this -- for films that were shot in that format, such as Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk and Gemini Man. But I don't own either of these...all the content I view is in 24FPS...

Try reducing the size of the image you have of the TV menu and try to put a thumbnail of it in your post.
I just did that -- I posted it for you above...thanks.
 
Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
Actually, I mistakenly posted the same picture of one screen twice -- there is another screen shot missing.

Let me fix that and repost it...
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic
Ok, if the player setting showed 4:2:0 before the setting change, then the deep color function was not active and the signal was sent as if the TV could not accept an HDR signal. It doesn’t mean anything is wrong with the player or the TV and I’m going to call out HDMI on this one. Changing the signal woke the HDMI connection up to the fact that you are dealing with two devices that can deliver HDR. This miscommunication does not mean the player or TV are flawed. Ok, on your chart, have a look at the left most column. It shows frame rate. No 10 or 12 bit color is available in 4:4:4 when frame rate is 50/60. You are getting 4:4:4 in 10 or 12 bit color because you are playing 24fps material but there is no column there for 24p. So, you should continue to see 4:4:4 until you go and try to watch a 60fps disc. Then, you will see 4:2:2 because the TV does not support 4:4:4 at that frame rate. There is nothing wrong with your TV or your player. They just needed to get to know one another and had a bad introduction from HDMI. I can tell you that when I pull my display chart up it is identical to your own and when I put in “Billy Lynn’s Long Halftime Walk” my numbers go from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2. The movie doesn’t play for very long before I turn it off. It isn’t very good and features Steve Martin’s worst onscreen performance. I would have put Terry Bradshaw in that role. But I digress.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
OMG...

Do we STILL have to go through this? I wrote an ENTIRE response to your last commentary which explained why I'm thrilled that YOU have had no problems with YOUR unit, but I am obviously having something going on with MINE because something isn't reading correctly here. I don't understand how it is that you're helping exactly, but, again, if this is annoying you, please don't continue coming in here and saying "I'm sure everything is just perfect with his player" or "I have had nothing go wrong with mine."
I am trying to tell you that I'm certain that there is nothing wrong with your player. If it sent your TV a signal in a format it sold not handle you would get no picture. It really is that simple. As has been pointed out the player will not necessarily send the resolution it is set to. The TV and player have to be sorting this out, so the TV can deliver the best picture from what is sent it by the player.
 
Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
He's just getting started.
So what do I do? How do I approach this? Can you provide specifics of how he's "just getting started"?

I don't understand what's happening here; I came to the forum for genuine help with this issue...is there anyone beyond Treb that has experience with this Blu-ray player?
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
So what do I do? How do I approach this? Can you provide specifics of how he's "just getting started"?

I don't understand what's happening here; I came to the forum for genuine help with this issue...is there anyone beyond Treb that has experience with this Blu-ray player?
If I were you I'd start by calling Gene at home.
 
Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
Ok, if the player setting showed 4:2:0 before the setting change, then the deep color function was not active and the signal was sent as if the TV could not accept an HDR signal.
But I know for a fact that the UHD COLOR was active for the player's input at the TV.

It doesn’t mean anything is wrong with the player or the TV and I’m going to call out HDMI on this one. Changing the signal woke the HDMI connection up to the fact that you are dealing with two devices that can deliver HDR.
What do you mean by "changing the signal"? All I did was begin playing discs and those output numbers changed...

This miscommunication does not mean the player or TV are flawed. Ok, on your chart, have a look at the left most column. It shows frame rate. No 10 or 12 bit color is available in 4:4:4 when frame rate is 50/60. You are getting 4:4:4 in 10 or 12 bit color because you are playing 24fps material but there is no column there for 24p. So, you should continue to see 4:4:4 until you go and try to watch a 60fps disc. Then, you will see 4:2:2 because the TV does not support 4:4:4 at that frame rate. There is nothing wrong with your TV or your player. They just needed to get to know one another and had a bad introduction from HDMI. I can tell you that when I pull my display chart up it is identical to your own and when I put in “Billy Lynn’s Long Halftime Walk” my numbers go from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2. The movie doesn’t play for very long before I turn it off. It isn’t very good and features Steve Martin’s worst onscreen performance. I would have put Terry Bradshaw in that role. But I digress.
Okay -- I think I got all this. But this still doesn't explain why, when I first set the player up, it was sending 4:2:2 12-Bit with 4K discs (at 24FPS) and with Blu-rays it was sending 4:4:4 10-Bit...and that EVERYONE I had asked during that period CONFIRMED this was correct because the NU8000 couldn't support 4:4:4 12-Bit with any kind of 4K video...

The reason that this totally changed is what is bothering me -- I realize this can be an HDMI handshake thing, but why did it originally feel like sending out 4:2:2 with 4K Blu-rays and now it's sending 4:4:4? What's even weirder is that I spoke to someone on another forum who has a Panasonic UHD player, and he said his does the same thing -- when he originally installed the unit, it was saying "4:2:0" in that 4K60P OUTPUT menu, but then when he fooled with something, it suddenly started reading "4:4:4"...

Further -- this brings something else up: Beyond what the DISCS are sending out, what is the deal with that menu in the primary HDMI setup screen for 4K60P OUTPUT? As I said, originally, this was reading 4K/60P 4:2:0 ALL THE TIME. Now it reads 4K/60P 4:4:4...but I thought the NU couldn't DO 4:4:4 with 4K 60P signals...

Here's the screen/setting I'm talking about:

1592869235545.png


Do you see that SECOND selection for 4K 50/60P output? This is a screen grab for a UK model of the UB9000, but on MY player this menu selection reads "4K60P OUTPUT," and it was originally reading "4:2:0" here. NOW it reads "4:4:4"...

I don't understand it...
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic
Before I continue, tell me if you are using the second HDMI jack for audio to a receiver.
 
Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
Before I continue, tell me if you are using the second HDMI jack for audio to a receiver.
I said I was in that lengthy response to you; I suppose you didn't read it?

I'm running dual HDMI outs -- one direct to the display and the other direct to an Onkyo 605 receiver.
 
Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
I also wanted to share something I received from a Panasonic contact who got in touch with engineers, because my situation was a complete head-scratcher to him, too; below is what came back:

Sorry for the late reply. Due to Covid 19 we are on a reduced staff.

I first of all wanted to provide the information that came in from the engineering team. See the engineers comments.

First of all, we can say the settings customer is using are good. However, we should point clearly what is the limitation of the HDMI transmission which has to be considered when doing the settings:

  1. 12 bit color depth shows less banding and smooth color transition. But I can barely see the difference in color detail looking at 4:2:2 vs 4:4:4.
  2. 4:4:4 chroma subsampling settings suggests lower bit rate to be within the current HDMI bandwidth (limit is 18 Gbps). See a table below for comparison.
  3. Above this there is a consideration for the frame rate which contributes to the bandwidth requirements. In the worst case 4K/60p, 12 bit and 4:4:4 will require more than 22Gbps. Dropping it to 10 bit requires 20Gbps.
In short – one has to determine the best settings based on the personal preferences, remembering the HDMI bandwidth restrictions.

HDMI Bandwidth comparison

1080p 4:4:4 – 16 bit color depth (5.91 Gbps) This is easy! HDMI 1.4 cables


4K60p 4:2:0 - 12 bit color depth (13.37 Gbps) No issue when using new HDMI 2.0A/B cables


4K60p 4:2:2 - 12 bit color depth (17.82 Gbps) Ok when using top quality HDMI 2.0A/B cables


4K60p 4:4:4 - 8 bit color depth (17.82 Gbps) Ok when using top quality HDMI 2.0A/B cables


4K60p 4:4:4 – 10 bit color depth (+20 Gbps) No Way, this is not possible with current HDMI standards



4K60p 4:4:4 – 12 bit color depth (+22 Gbps) No Way, this is not possible with current HDMI standards


It feels like I'm just going around in circles here with them; we already kind of knew the above -- I need to discern WHY my particular display is suddenly accepting 4:4:4 12-Bit video with 4K signals when in the past it didn't...
 

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