Someone PLEASE Help Me Understand Why This is Happening with my DP-UB9000...

Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
Could you also help me make some sense of that screen that provides the supported resolutions? I'll send over the other pic I wanted to provide to you -- about what is supported if HDMI UHD Color ISN'T turned on -- as soon as I can, but is what I provided adding up to what the player is supposed to be sending the panel?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Could you also help me make some sense of that screen that provides the supported resolutions? I'll send over the other pic I wanted to provide to you -- about what is supported if HDMI UHD Color ISN'T turned on -- as soon as I can, but is what I provided adding up to what the player is supposed to be sending the panel?
Well, obviously if the player is saying it is sending 4K60P - 12 bit to the display it is not. As the Panasonic engineers have stated this is not possible under EXIISTING HDMI standards.

So obviously what is happening is that the TV and player are communicating and this is forcing the player to send the TV the optimum signal. Remember HDMI is a two way communication.

So you can be certain, and there is no doubt about this, that your TV is displaying the best picture it can from that player from the disc it is currently playing.

As I have said all along what you are getting exasperated about, and exasperating us all with, is of zero practical significance. In plain terns is DOES NOT MATTER ONE WIT.

I do make one pertinent observation in that this thread is a classic exposition of severe OCD.

Please just enjoy your gear which was hopefully the reason you bought it.
 
Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
Well, obviously if the player is saying it is sending 4K60P - 12 bit to the display it is not. As the Panasonic engineers have stated this is not possible under EXIISTING HDMI standards.

So obviously what is happening is that the TV and player are communicating and this is forcing the player to send the TV the optimum signal. Remember HDMI is a two way communication.

So you can be certain, and there is no doubt about this, that your TV is displaying the best picture it can from that player from the disc it is currently playing.

As I have said all along what you are getting exasperated about, and exasperating us all with, is of zero practical significance. In plain terns is DOES NOT MATTER ONE WIT.

I do make one pertinent observation in that this thread is a classic exposition of severe OCD.

Please just enjoy your gear which was hopefully the reason you bought it.
I'm exasperating all of YOU with this?

Like you were FORCED to answer?

I ask questions about expensive gear we purchased and I'm accused of being OCD. Okay.

I also find it absolutely hysterical that you're attempting to reaffirm the blame onto ME for all this and claim that I'm exasperating to all of YOU, when all I keep seeing are comments about ignoring you and that "you've just started."

To reiterate once more -- and, as I said countless times already, if this annoys you, which it obviously does, DON'T respond -- the following is why I want to know what is wrong here:

Well, obviously if the player is saying it is sending 4K60P - 12 bit to the display it is not.

THIS is the problem. So I'll just wait until I hear back from the other member who was gracious enough to give me some input about examining the supported resolutions menu.
 
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Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
Before I continue, tell me if you are using the second HDMI jack for audio to a receiver.
In checking if the HDMI UHD Color setting is on, it is for the HDMI input the player is connected to.
 
M

Movie2099

Full Audioholic
In checking if the HDMI UHD Color setting is on, it is for the HDMI input the player is connected to.
Your TV and player do not have HDMI 2.1 which is the only HDMI that can handle 12 bit color. Do you have eARC on your tv? Have you tried switching the HDMI cables out for different ones? Have you tried using the other HDMI connections on the TV? I'm guessing it's a software issue. Is this issue bothering you when you watch media? do you notice a shift in color when you're watching something? I see you reached out to Panasonic, but have you reached out to Samsung?
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Ok will add my thoughts. I think the support guy is right. With HDMI 2.0 you can’t exceed max bandwidth of 18Gbps so if sending chroma 4:4:4 it lowers to 8bit.

He said:

4K60p 4:4:4 - 8 bit color depth (17.82 Gbps) Ok when using top quality HDMI 2.0A/B cables

Other factors to bandwidth might include HDR and surround sound bandwidth

If the TV supports HDMI 2.1, you can run an HDMI 2.1 cable between the TV and Panasonic player. Then run another HDMI cable from TV to AVR for sound and use ARC or eARC. (Or from Panasonic to AVR without using ARC or eARC) Otherwise to get HDMI 2.1 at the AVR, buy the latest Denon 3700 or 4700 AVR that came out a few weeks ago which supports HDMI 2.1. Yamaha has a new AVR line coming out this summer with HDMI 2.1 too.

A better forum to find out about your specific Player and TV model is the AVS Forum on the owner threads of your models. Yes it’s painful to search through hundreds of pages though. Good luck! :)


Edit: I am not clear if your TV even supports HDMI 2.1. Figure that out first. :)
 
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T

Trebdp83

Audioholic
Haven't we all been stumped by a problem/equation? This is just a difficult equation for some. Yes, it is all about power/capacity/bandwidth. The numbers from Panasonic and the Samsung display chart are very helpful. It also helps to do the homework of reading the manual. Think of it this way. You have a big truck for hauling containers. HDMI 2.0 Trucking is being asked to haul three big containers, each container is 4 feet deep and each contains 4 tons of information. The truck only has enough power to haul those containers at 24mph. If the truck needs to haul them at 60mph, it has to lighten the load. It has just enough power to haul one 4 foot deep container with 4 tons, and another 2 containers that are 2 feet deep with 2 tons in each of them. If the truck must move the full load at 60mph, it is going to need more power to do it. The 2021 trucks have more power for hauling big loads. HDMI 2.0 does not have the power/capacity/bandwidth to haul a 4K HDR image containing 4:4:4 chroma with 12 bits at 60fps. It has to lighten the load. So, this is why the "Gemini Man" 4K 60fps disc will show 4:2:2 12 bit because HDMI 2.0 cannot carry more than that at 60fps. There is no tech to show that movie the way Ang Lee wanted it presented, yet. He wanted it to be shown in 4K 3D at 120fps. All of your devices can carry a 4K HDR 4:4:4 12 bit load at 24fps. You will always see 4:4:4 12 bit displayed on a 24fps disc with your current setting. Activating "Easy Setting" in your player changed things up and enabled 4:4:4 12 bit at 24fps in your chain of devices. Again, read that manual cover to cover. I hope this all helps you out. I'm sure I screwed up one point or another but I think you can get there.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Haven't we all been stumped by a problem/equation? This is just a difficult equation for some. Yes, it is all about power/capacity/bandwidth. The numbers from Panasonic and the Samsung display chart are very helpful. It also helps to do the homework of reading the manual. Think of it this way. You have a big truck for hauling containers. HDMI 2.0 Trucking is being asked to haul three big containers, each container is 4 feet deep and each contains 4 tons of information. The truck only has enough power to haul those containers at 24mph. If the truck needs to haul them at 60mph, it has to lighten the load. It has just enough power to haul one 4 foot deep container with 4 tons, and another 2 containers that are 2 feet deep with 2 tons in each of them. If the truck must move the full load at 60mph, it is going to need more power to do it. The 2021 trucks have more power for hauling big loads. HDMI 2.0 does not have the power/capacity/bandwidth to haul a 4K HDR image containing 4:4:4 chroma with 12 bits at 60fps. It has to lighten the load. So, this is why the "Gemini Man" 4K 60fps disc will show 4:2:2 12 bit because HDMI 2.0 cannot carry more than that at 60fps. There is no tech to show that movie the way Ang Lee wanted it presented, yet. He wanted it to be shown in 4K 3D at 120fps. All of your devices can carry a 4K HDR 4:4:4 12 bit load at 24fps. You will always see 4:4:4 12 bit displayed on a 24fps disc with your current setting. Activating "Easy Setting" in your player changed things up and enabled 4:4:4 12 bit at 24fps in your chain of devices. Again, read that manual cover to cover. I hope this all helps you out. I'm sure I screwed up one point or another but I think you can get there.
Very well put my friend. I think that really closes the technical issues, but I don't think they are the primary issues in this case.
 
Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
I never said to ignore him. That would be foolish. He's always right.

How long have you had OCD?
Another one for my ignore list; what a completely unhelpful comment.

I wasn't talking about YOU specifically when I mentioned comments about him.

Thanks for nothing, at any rate.
 
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Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
Your TV and player do not have HDMI 2.1 which is the only HDMI that can handle 12 bit color. Do you have eARC on your tv? Have you tried switching the HDMI cables out for different ones? Have you tried using the other HDMI connections on the TV? I'm guessing it's a software issue. Is this issue bothering you when you watch media? do you notice a shift in color when you're watching something? I see you reached out to Panasonic, but have you reached out to Samsung?
I didn't reach out to Samsung because in the past I have gotten nowhere with them; I'll try that again, though, because my Panasonic rep is telling me that's the only direction for help now. They know NOTHING about Samsung displays.

You mentioned 2.1 being the only HDMI spec that can handle 12 Bit color -- but the player is REPORTING that it's sending out 12-Bit color when I view DVDs and Blu-rays. As an example, here's what the player is saying it's sending with DVDs and 1080p discs:

DVD:

Source:
720 x 480 SDR/BT.601 YCbCr 4:2:0/8-Bit

Player Output: 4K/60P SDR/BT.709 YCbCr 4:2:2 12-Bit

1080p BLU-RAY:

Source:
1920 x 1080 SDR/BT.709 YCbCr 4:2:0/8-Bit

Player Output: 4K/24P SDR/BT.709 YCbCr 4:4:4 12-Bit


Are you saying the display simply ISN'T showing 12-Bit color on its end?

eARC is on an HDMI port I'm not using for this player. I have not switched cables, but I have tried different ports. Same results.

No real shift in picture quality difference; I just want to know why, suddenly, the player is outputting different specifications all of a sudden when it didn't out of the box.
 
Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
Ok will add my thoughts. I think the support guy is right. With HDMI 2.0 you can’t exceed max bandwidth of 18Gbps so if sending chroma 4:4:4 it lowers to 8bit.

He said:

4K60p 4:4:4 - 8 bit color depth (17.82 Gbps) Ok when using top quality HDMI 2.0A/B cables

Other factors to bandwidth might include HDR and surround sound bandwidth

If the TV supports HDMI 2.1, you can run an HDMI 2.1 cable between the TV and Panasonic player. Then run another HDMI cable from TV to AVR for sound and use ARC or eARC. (Or from Panasonic to AVR without using ARC or eARC) Otherwise to get HDMI 2.1 at the AVR, buy the latest Denon 3700 or 4700 AVR that came out a few weeks ago which supports HDMI 2.1. Yamaha has a new AVR line coming out this summer with HDMI 2.1 too.

A better forum to find out about your specific Player and TV model is the AVS Forum on the owner threads of your models. Yes it’s painful to search through hundreds of pages though. Good luck! :)


Edit: I am not clear if your TV even supports HDMI 2.1. Figure that out first. :)
No need to "figure that out first;" I know the TV doesn't support 2.1.

And I've been down this road at AVS; there wasn't much help because no one can figure out why I was getting certain settings before and now I'm not.
 
Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
Haven't we all been stumped by a problem/equation? This is just a difficult equation for some. Yes, it is all about power/capacity/bandwidth. The numbers from Panasonic and the Samsung display chart are very helpful. It also helps to do the homework of reading the manual. Think of it this way. You have a big truck for hauling containers. HDMI 2.0 Trucking is being asked to haul three big containers, each container is 4 feet deep and each contains 4 tons of information. The truck only has enough power to haul those containers at 24mph. If the truck needs to haul them at 60mph, it has to lighten the load. It has just enough power to haul one 4 foot deep container with 4 tons, and another 2 containers that are 2 feet deep with 2 tons in each of them. If the truck must move the full load at 60mph, it is going to need more power to do it. The 2021 trucks have more power for hauling big loads. HDMI 2.0 does not have the power/capacity/bandwidth to haul a 4K HDR image containing 4:4:4 chroma with 12 bits at 60fps. It has to lighten the load. So, this is why the "Gemini Man" 4K 60fps disc will show 4:2:2 12 bit because HDMI 2.0 cannot carry more than that at 60fps. There is no tech to show that movie the way Ang Lee wanted it presented, yet. He wanted it to be shown in 4K 3D at 120fps. All of your devices can carry a 4K HDR 4:4:4 12 bit load at 24fps. You will always see 4:4:4 12 bit displayed on a 24fps disc with your current setting. Activating "Easy Setting" in your player changed things up and enabled 4:4:4 12 bit at 24fps in your chain of devices. Again, read that manual cover to cover. I hope this all helps you out. I'm sure I screwed up one point or another but I think you can get there.
Thanks for understanding, Treb; I come in here for assistance and I get picked on and insulted by people who don't even know me, making fun of me possibly having OCD...it's absolutely incredible. I won't be doing much asking around here going forward, I can tell you that. What a HORRIBLE community.

The manual for the Panasonic is nearly non-existent, if that's what you were referring to (it's basically a leaflet, not a book that can be read "cover to cover;" plus, I'm not a 100-percent newbie in this hobby...I'm just not that experienced using 4K-compliant hardware at this point); right now, I just want to know what is going on here. But I think you nailed it with this:

All of your devices can carry a 4K HDR 4:4:4 12 bit load at 24fps. You will always see 4:4:4 12 bit displayed on a 24fps disc with your current setting. Activating "Easy Setting" in your player changed things up and enabled 4:4:4 12 bit at 24fps in your chain of devices.

This is making some sense now, and is getting closer to what I wanted to know.

Before we go any further, can you analyze the following readings I took last night when viewing first a DVD and then 1080p Blu-ray, and tell me if these look correct? This is what the player was reporting it was processing and then outputting:

DVD:
Source:
720 x 480 SDR/BT.601 YCbCr 4:2:0/8-Bit

Player Output: 4K/60P SDR/BT.709 YCbCr 4:2:2 12-Bit

1080p BLU-RAY:
Source:
1920 x 1080 SDR/BT.709 YCbCr 4:2:0/8-Bit

Player Output: 4K/24P SDR/BT.709 YCbCr 4:4:4 12-Bit


I will confirm what is being output with native 4K Blu-rays as soon as I can, but I believe it always reads 4:4:4 12-Bit...

One thing I have a question about with regard to the above data is this: Is it normal that the color specs for the BT.601 DVD format changes upon output to the display? If you see where the player is reporting BT.601 for DVD, it then is outputting BT.709...is this a correct color REC?
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
No need to "figure that out first;" I know the TV doesn't support 2.1.

And I've been down this road at AVS; there wasn't much help because no one can figure out why I was getting certain settings before and now I'm not.
Ok just trying to help. I know you are checking your Samsung HDMI input resolution in the Samsung menu and not trusting the Panasonic output because you know the TV will determine what it’s actually displaying which isn’t necessarily what the Panasonic is sending originally.

I’m curious of the limitations myself as I own a similar Samsung 4K TV even though I have a Sony x800m2 player. Mine is the KS8000.
 
Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
Ok just trying to help. I know you are checking your Samsung HDMI input resolution in the Samsung menu and not trusting the Panasonic output because you know the TV will determine what it’s actually displaying which isn’t necessarily what the Panasonic is sending originally.

I’m curious of the limitations myself as I own a similar Samsung 4K TV even though I have a Sony x800m2 player. Mine is the KS8000.
Thank you.

Yes, I check the Samsung's incoming resolution information routinely -- it always shows "2160/24P" or "2160/60P" depending on whether I'm watching a DVD or Blu-ray...so this is correct.
 
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T

Trebdp83

Audioholic
That looks about right but DVD info is a mixed bag.
Do a Google search of Panasonic DP UB9000 manual. Click on the first one that comes up. It’s a 51 page beauty. Be careful, you will see settings you didn’t know you could access and go nuts on that player. But, isn’t that where the fun really starts?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
That looks about right but DVD info is a mixed bag.
Do a Google search of Panasonic DP UB9000 manual. Click on the first one that comes up. It’s a 51 page beauty. Be careful, you will see settings you didn’t know you could access and go nuts on that player. But, isn’t that where the fun really starts?
Yes, but there is also a truism that says: "If it ain't broke don't fix it". I really think that is the fundamental issue here.
 
Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
That looks about right but DVD info is a mixed bag.
Do a Google search of Panasonic DP UB9000 manual. Click on the first one that comes up. It’s a 51 page beauty. Be careful, you will see settings you didn’t know you could access and go nuts on that player. But, isn’t that where the fun really starts?
I have seen the online manual, Treb, and I'm familiar with all the myriad of settings available for this unit (and the other Panasonics such as the 820); I'm set up fine with everything else, such as HDR Optimizer options, picture adjustments, etc. It's very overwhelming with this unit, but I've become comfortable with most of it.

When you mentioned the DVD info being a "mixed bag," are you saying these readings are wrong? I questioned this myself, but some others from different online sources are assuring me it's correct (and I, too, questioned if DVDs should be upscaled to 4:2:2 12/Bit); apparently, this is correct, being that I've set "12-Bit Priority" in the ADVANCED setup menu.

Appreciate you sticking with me through this, being that the conversation was being derailed by douchebag central. Like I said, I've had a terrible experience here thus far, and have even begun private conversations regarding the behavior of some people who are just being cruel and unhelpful for the raw sake of doing so.

If you wish to take this private, I'm fine with that; not getting any other assistance otherwise, at any rate.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic
I meant that DVDs themselves are a mixed bag. It seems as though you have the playback of all of your discs dialed in now. Enjoy the show!
 
Kaskade89052

Kaskade89052

Full Audioholic
Actually, Treb, I still have some questions, but for now, let me ask you this:

Why is the player sending out DVDs at YCbCr 4:2:2? Shouldn't they be sent out as 4:4:4, like Blu-rays are, being that the player's Chroma Upsampling feature is being used?
 

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