Is it conceivable that some (I'm really talking about self-made) wealthy people get that way by not being foolish with their money?
Warren Buffet is a great example.
I have no problem with someone buying jewelery, even the audio kind. I think a great heaping teaspoon of the "high end" is dubious in terms of differences in real (i.e. not subjective) audible differences. That's the part of it that I think rattles more sabers than being jealous of others with money. However, if a rich person wants to believe the subjective nonsense and makes himself believe that he is buying something "better", so be it. It doesn't make it reality. Again, I am speaking to real improvements in sound (and video) quality verus something cosmetic or simple $$ bragging rights. Still, it's funny when the guts of a $1k machine make its way into an $18k machine, because the differences in sound (or video) quality are likely nonexistant. Gotta love ....
Without question, the laws of diminishing return are in play here. That would include better DAC's versus cheaper DAC's, a cheap power supply versus a more expensive version, differential DAC's versus single ended, discretely built operational amplifiers versus semiconductors (and while we are at it) 16 bit 48K DAC's versus the best 24-192 DAC's. I could go on for another hour: coupling capacitors (or lack their of using DC coupling), shielding, layout, volume control methodology, etc. Each an every "tweak"
mayresult in extremely small sonic difference. Added all together there can be a nice improvement so long as some other part wasn't botched.
Simaudio or any other boutique brand when designed by themselves will indeed have an inferior DSP engine as compared to Denon or Pioneer or Onkyo. I'm talking about Denon's incredible GUI, it's packed features, reliability, user friendliness, etc. At my homes and electronics, I pretty much used D&M products (but not their amps because I prefer Parasound Halo). For my ear and budget, I simply LOVE the Denon and Marantz products. But there are products that take it to the next level sonically. Unfortunately, more often than not the low volume brands are buggy. People do buy inferior DSP engine products to get superior analog sections. The price has nothing to do with it. They put up with the hassles and lack of features to get "better" sound. So to assume some people want to pay more for show is true. I've tried talking people with terrible rooms out of spending big $'s. But logic will tell you
more people want a bug free product that costs LESS. But after hearing the difference, they wrestle with spending more to get the sonic benefit. So they spend more because they (unfortunately) hear the difference. So don't assume it is the placebo. It could not be farther from the truth in the vast majority of my customers.
Denon's engine is basically the same for all of the Denon and Marantz products. That design is amortized over a lot of products and is the reason why they can accomplish so much at an attractive price. If Sim or Krell tried to re-design the wheel, it would cost millions. It is also why D&M buys their room correction, video up conversion, etc.
On another note, I personally think the Marantz 8801 is a SPECTACULAR product. IMHO, (in Simaudio words) the Marantz 8801 "smokes" the flagship Onkyo. The 8801 has a lot of "audiophile tweaks". "Smokes" in audiophile terminology is you hear a nice level of improvement. It would be like cooking a steak on a gas grill versus a quality charcoal grill. People are interested in that little extra. Continuing with the grill analogy, I don't like cooking on a gas grill (I use a Traeger grill to be more accurate) and I paid $1400 for that grill. I buy fresh garlic while others use garlic power. To the taste buds, that difference will be extremely small. But the best meals combine the 30 very small differences to get something worthy. It's NEVER night and day. Same drill in audio. For my next door neighbor, he may attach a price to the sonic improvement with the 8801 at $50. While others would pay thousands. It depends on the level of passion and (much) MORE importantly the thickness of the wallet.
So are you saying all those people who post on the AVS forum who bought the $3600 retail Marantz 8801 prepro are getting screwed? After all, it is
extremely similar to the Denon 4520 for $1100 less? For an example, when they discuss that thery 'hear a difference" over the Onkyo that they just sold and now love the Marantz, is it all in their head like you alluded to? Were they all hoodwinked? Shouldn't they just have bought a Denon X4000 and used the preouts? Where is the outrage? Marantz is charging 4X more money for an 8801 versus the X4000. There are a ton of similarities (and "only" 20 sonic tweaks). Don't bother listening to it. Have Gene
measure it. (Using Marshall's suggestion) Gene will tell you if it sounds better only if it measures better.
Too funny!
I propose that at least part of the Simaudio "outrage" is because of a hidden jealousy that people refuse to admit. Here we are talking about a 5 year old story and a site that seemingly wants to smear a company. You have not all heard about it because it's WAY outside of your budget. The people who are commenting on the story never heard the product and cannot afford one yet they "know" is is simply a $1K Denon.
That's the irony and it seems people that are closed minded cannot bring themselves to admit it. But this site sells advertising and (controversy sells) even when it is 5 years old.
That said, I'm wasting my bandwidth because I am not going to change anyone's mind. I'm off to the beach to have another beer in Mexico.
