Simaudio Moon CP-8 AV Processor: A Denon Receiver in Sim Clothing?

A

andy_c

Audioholic
I've known that the CP-8 used a Denon engine all along. When I was a dealer, it was publicized to all of us (bragging that it works).
I like that! "It works, thanks to the fact that we didn't design it!" :D
 

havok2022

Enthusiast
The only thing worse than a Denon is an $18,000 Denon. Take junk and charge way more than is in the realm of reason. Great job Simaudio, you just earned a spot with Lexicon and, well, Denon on my list.

(And I feel my Denon hating is justified as I've owned two of them and both of them had problems and quality control issues).
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The only thing worse than a Denon is an $18,000 Denon. Take junk and charge way more than is in the realm of reason. Great job Simaudio, you just earned a spot with Lexicon and, well, Denon on my list.

(And I feel my Denon hating is justified as I've owned two of them and both of them had problems and quality control issues).
Which Denon did you own?

Were they bought new?

From which dealer?

Nothing is perfect though. I would never buy refurbished.
 

havok2022

Enthusiast
Which Denon did you own?

Were they bought new?

From which dealer?

Nothing is perfect though. I would never buy refurbished.
1. Most recently an AVR-3313CI. Prior to that it was years ago and I'd have to dig around to find the model number.

2. Both purchased brand new in box.

3. Both purchased from authorized dealers. First one Ultimate Electronics, second Best Buy/Magnolia.

The first one was years ago. I kept hearing something odd, and upon further examination/listening I found that inputs were bleeding over. After a lot of work trying to figure out how it was possible, I was only able to figure that it was happening inside the chassis. Pretty poor when I'm trying to watch a movie and I can hear my sat input lightly in the background on quiet scenes. So I abandoned Denon for a while. I've owned Yamaha and Pioneer Elite and tend to prefer the overall sound and quality of the Elites. I started looking at an upgrade for my Elite earlier this year, and found a good price on the Denon which I was able to get Best Buy to match. I figured I would give them another go. Marantz was out, because like Sim they are just a more expensive Denon in a different chassis. Picked up the 3313 and within days I was having all sorts of issues between firmware issues, HDMI issues. It was to the point where it was completely unusable to me. So, I took it back and paid a little more for a Pioneer SC-65 and am happy about it. (Though Elite's bluray player is buggy as all hell, that I will have to admit). The fact that I'm 0/2 on Denon products is one thing. But each time I've replaced with a comparable Elite and they just sounded better as well.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
1. Most recently an AVR-3313CI. Prior to that it was years ago and I'd have to dig around to find the model number.

2. Both purchased brand new in box.

3. Both purchased from authorized dealers. First one Ultimate Electronics, second Best Buy/Magnolia.

The first one was years ago. I kept hearing something odd, and upon further examination/listening I found that inputs were bleeding over. After a lot of work trying to figure out how it was possible, I was only able to figure that it was happening inside the chassis. Pretty poor when I'm trying to watch a movie and I can hear my sat input lightly in the background on quiet scenes. So I abandoned Denon for a while. I've owned Yamaha and Pioneer Elite and tend to prefer the overall sound and quality of the Elites. I started looking at an upgrade for my Elite earlier this year, and found a good price on the Denon which I was able to get Best Buy to match. I figured I would give them another go. Marantz was out, because like Sim they are just a more expensive Denon in a different chassis. Picked up the 3313 and within days I was having all sorts of issues between firmware issues, HDMI issues. It was to the point where it was completely unusable to me. So, I took it back and paid a little more for a Pioneer SC-65 and am happy about it. (Though Elite's bluray player is buggy as all hell, that I will have to admit). The fact that I'm 0/2 on Denon products is one thing. But each time I've replaced with a comparable Elite and they just sounded better as well.
You are certainly one of the few cases that I have seen of complaints with Denon. Of course it is bound to happen eventually, just seems rare that you had 2 strikes against them. If I were in your shoes, I would feel the same way. Personally, I have a similar grudge against Sony.

I currently have a Pio Elite and it is a great AVR. Same for my previous Yammy. I think when I do upgrade next time I will prob go back to Yammy or maybe Denon. I also like the slimline Marantz for the form factor.
 

havok2022

Enthusiast
You are certainly one of the few cases that I have seen of complaints with Denon. Of course it is bound to happen eventually, just seems rare that you had 2 strikes against them. If I were in your shoes, I would feel the same way. Personally, I have a similar grudge against Sony.

I currently have a Pio Elite and it is a great AVR. Same for my previous Yammy. I think when I do upgrade next time I will prob go back to Yammy or maybe Denon. I also like the slimline Marantz for the form factor.
Why get the Slimline Marantz when you can go ID and get Sherbourn now that Emotiva owns them? :D I've been itching to give Emotiva a try as I've heard a lot of good. That may be the next stop, at least on the amp front.
 
monkish54

monkish54

Audioholic General
Just thought I'd throw this out there:

Pioneer shouts from the rooftops that Andrew designed their speakers because Pioneer and TAD are (essentially) the same company, and because Pioneer actually owns the rights to Andrew's name. :D
 
monkish54

monkish54

Audioholic General
As a Harman fan-boy, it pains me to say it, but yes, and Audioholics broke that story too: Oppo on the Inside, Lexicon on the Outside | Audioholics

It's a good thing that audioholics is around. Imagine if it were just Stereophile and publications like them letting the high-end companies claim whatever they want.

I have another story in mind that I'm going to pitch Gene soon. Keeping looking to audioholics for the real deal, and keep reading Stereophile for the lolz.
Who is this guy? Why don't I recognize your name? You're the sh*t!

As a Harman fan-boy, I tell myself that would have never happened under Sidney and then I feel a little bit better. :)

I would never buy refurbished.
I love refurbished stuff. I bought my SR6004 for $577 shipped with a 5 year extended warranty. I bought a $1300 product for $600 with a great warranty. Ihave had an issue with the Marantz (the sub preout died), but I'm not sure what caused it. It could have been my fault. I had it repaired at no cost to myself and she's running fine. :D I never buy retail if I can buy refurbished. I'm willing to risk a little time in the repair shop for over 50% savings. :)
 
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fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
Who is this guy? Why don't I recognize your name? You're the sh*t!

As a Harman fan-boy, I tell myself that would have never happened under Sidney and then I feel a little bit better. :)
He's Marshall Guthrie, been around here for awhile contributing articles and videos, and he has some great recipes.

Maybe if you quit that school bullish!t and came back more you'd know that :p :D
 
Marshall_Guthrie

Marshall_Guthrie

Audioholics Videographer Extraordinaire
He's Marshall Guthrie, been around here for awhile contributing articles and videos, and he has some great recipes.
You know, if you sing that to the tune of he theme song to Shaft...that's not bad.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I love refurbished stuff. I bought my SR6004 for $577 shipped with a 5 year extended warranty. I bought a $1300 product for $600 with a great warranty. Ihave had an issue with the Marantz (the sub preout died), but I'm not sure what caused it. It could have been my fault. I had it repaired at no cost to myself and she's running fine. :D I never buy retail if I can buy refurbished. I'm willing to risk a little time in the repair shop for over 50% savings. :)
I suppose it depends on a few things. Like if you live near a service center.

I have a friend who is an authorized dealer who could get me > 50% off on brand new Mark Levinson, ATI, Lexicon, Denon, Marantz. So of course, I would not buy refurbished. ;)
 
monkish54

monkish54

Audioholic General
I have a friend who is an authorized dealer who could get me > 50% off on brand new Mark Levinson, ATI, Lexicon, Denon, Marantz. So of course, I would not buy refurbished. ;)
Funny you should say that! I have a friend who has a friend who is an authorized dealer who could get me > 50% off on brand new Mark Levinson, ATI, Lexicon, Denon, Marantz. So of course, I would not buy refurbished either. ;)
 
Marshall_Guthrie

Marshall_Guthrie

Audioholics Videographer Extraordinaire
Funny you should say that! I have a friend who has a friend who is an authorized dealer who could get me > 50% off on brand new Mark Levinson, ATI, Lexicon, Denon, Marantz. So of course, I would not buy refurbished either. ;)
Anecdotal evidence cuts both ways: The Forums will tell you the Onkyo is bad, and refurb is bad, but I've had an Onkyo refurb that I've been running for about 7 years now with no problem. For a couple years, I ran it without proper ventilation. If it was summer, and I didn' open the cabinet door, it would get too hot and shut down. Still works fine to this day.

I'd love to see some real numbers on refurb unit failure rates (maybe Denon could provide?), but my thought is this: Let's say on any given day, 1% of units off the line fail. That's the 1% that gets refurbed, the failed part replaced, an inspected before they ever put them back out for sale. The odds of that unit failing again?...Once again, I don't know. Only the numbers can tell us, but my gut says less and my gut is never wrong unless I've ordered the 5 Xs Pad Thai from the joint in town.

Back to the topic, how many refurb Denons could you buy for the price of one refurb Simaudio?
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
I suppose it depends on a few things. Like if you live near a service center.

I have a friend who is an authorized dealer who could get me > 50% off on brand new Mark Levinson, ATI, Lexicon, Denon, Marantz. So of course, I would not buy refurbished. ;)
why aren't you passing this along to your ah brethren?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Funny you should say that! I have a friend who has a friend who is an authorized dealer who could get me > 50% off on brand new Mark Levinson, ATI, Lexicon, Denon, Marantz. So of course, I would not buy refurbished either. ;)
Damn straight. Salon3 as well when you are ready. ;) :D
 
SaviorMachine

SaviorMachine

Enthusiast
I really appreciate call-outs like this; worth reading, and worth sharing. Thanks, Marshall.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I think this may be the juiciest bit of info I've ever seen. $18K juicy.

Certainly provides tremendous ammunition against a certain crowd. ;)
 
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