AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The in-room response is probably smoother below the crossover than it was when running full range.
I think it's just because I like crazy bass for some music.:eek:

For classical music, I still prefer 2.0 pure direct.:D

So for classical music, I will play the Orion, Salon, & Phil full range 2.0 pure direct.

For rock/pop, it will be 2.1.
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
I think it's just because I like crazy bass for some music.:eek:

For classical music, I still prefer 2.0 pure direct.:D

So for classical music, I will play the Orion, Salon, & Phil full range 2.0 pure direct.

For rock/pop, it will be 2.1.
There's nothing wrong with that. It would help if there was a recording standard so there was the "proper" amount of bass in every type of music, or at least the same amount.

I'd be curious to see how your room measures. You could very well have a null when running full range.
 
Last edited:
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
There's nothing wrong with that. It would help if there was a recording standard so there was the "proper" amount of bass in every type of music, or at least the same amount.
For so much music though there isn't a "proper amount" of bass, because there was never a single performance. How many recordings are mixed from tracks recorded in multiple studios? (Most recordings by "celebrities".) Or even if there was a single performance the recording is an engineered illusion. Like connecting electric instruments directly to the console rather than recording actual sound with a mic. Or sticking mics were no humans would go, like inside of a bass drum or down the throat of a piano. Or applying equalization or reverb or sound shaping devices here and there. Often bass limiting. Or the mixing trick I hate the most, moving loud instruments like drums deeper into the mix so they don't get too much attention, and detract from vocalists or lead guitar players, or whatever. Ugh.

Most recordings suck. We are seldom the target audience.

So except for purist classical recordings or very well-recorded acoustic jazz, I'm with ADTG, and just adjust the sub level to "sound good".
 
Last edited:
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
You could very well have a null when running full range.
Why?

Do nulls occur only for rock/pop music, but is absent for classical music?

Because I don't think the bass from the Salon2 is as powerful and loud as from my dual Rythmik subs?

I don't think the bass from the Salon2 will be as powerful, deep, and loud as from my dual Rythmik even in an anechoic chamber with no nulls.
 
Last edited:
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
For so much music though there isn't a "proper amount" of bass, because there was never a single performance. How many recordings are mixed from tracks recorded in multiple studios? (Most recordings by "celebrities".) Or even if there was a single performance the recording is an engineered illusion. Like connecting electric instruments directly to the console rather than recording actual sound with a mic. Or sticking mics were no humans would go, like inside of a bass drum or down the throat of a piano. Or applying equalization or reverb or sound shaping devices here and there. Often bass limiting. Or the mixing trick I hate the most, moving loud instruments like drums deeper into the mix so they don't get too much attention, and detract from vocalists or lead guitar players, or whatever. Ugh.

Most recordings suck. We are seldom the target audience.

So except for purist classical recordings or very well-recorded acoustic jazz, I'm with ATDG, and just adjust the sub level to "sound good".
You don't think there's a reference that orchestras and jazz musicians tune to when they're setting up for a live show? However, a recording is just a recording - it's not the live event with you sitting in the concert hall. Thus a recording standard would only resolve recording issues; it won't make the recordings as good as the live events, which you seem to be speaking of, and which is not what I was talking about at all.

If there was a recording standard I'm sure there would be a reference for classical, one for Jazz, one of Rock, etc. And within that reference I imagine there'd be a window for how to tune the bass depending on the genre. It still wouldn't stop people from turn up or down their subwoofers, though. My point is if most recordings didn't "suck," to quote you, it would be easier to constantly achieve the sound we're looking for, which is the sound the artist intended us to hear when they created the recording.

Why?

Do nulls occur only for rock/pop music, but is absent for classical music?

Because I don't think the bass from the Salon2 is as powerful and loud as from my dual Rythmik subs?

I don't think the bass from the Salon2 will be as powerful, deep, and loud as from my dual Rythmik even in an anechoic chamber with no nulls.
Nope - the null is created by your room, but classical music isn't artificial as far as bass goes (it's un-amplified), so it will sound different. Wanting more is just fine, but the dynamic range of Classical music can and will be more revealing than rock or pop. With the latter genres it could take a FR deviation of several decibels before you noticed, but with classical you might notice after 2-3dB, hence my comment about possible nulls. It's just possible that it takes something like a good classical music recording before you're able to hear some of the ill effects of the room. I'm sure you'll roll your eyes and deny your room is at play, and that's fine, but it simply shouldn't be ruled out. I've seen you mention in the past it is untreated, so you just never know.

I agree - the subs will output more bass (duh). That isn't what I meant.
 
Last edited:
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
You don't think there's a reference that orchestras and jazz musicians tune to when they're setting up for a live show? However, a recording is just a recording - it's not the live event with you sitting in the concert hall. Thus a recording standard would only resolve recording issues; it won't make the recordings as good as the live events, which you seem to be speaking of, and which is not what I was talking about at all.

If there was a recording standard I'm sure there would be a reference for classical, one for Jazz, one of Rock, etc. And within that reference I imagine there'd be a window for how to tune the bass depending on the genre. It still wouldn't stop people from turn up or down their subwoofers, though. My point is if most recordings didn't "suck," to quote you, it would be easier to constantly achieve the sound we're looking for, which is the sound the artist intended us to hear when they created the recording.
No, I don't think any of the reference ideas you suggest are practical, because it would vary by venue. Perhaps I don't understand what you're saying, but it sounds like some recommended frequency response curve. Can you describe the process an engineer would execute?

Most recordings suck because of premeditated actions that run counter to making recordings sound "real". Adding reverb to a singer, putting the drums too deep in the mix, or recording a drum from the inside are not things you can adjust with a reference level.
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
You're right - you don't understand what I am saying, but it's not a big deal. This thread is way off topic already so pm me if you want to further discuss it. Moving along.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Wait....

Who is the professional drummer? :D
My wife. She plays in several local bands and gets paid, so she is a professional by some formal definition. As with most musicians she has a "day gig" where she earns the majority of her income. I'm her roadie. (I also have various responsibilities in drum repair and tuning, and cymbal polishing. Especially cymbal polishing.)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I probably missed this, but is Dennis doing the XO for the SS8?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Of course. Do you really have to ask?

Are your Phil 3s shipped yet, or are they still with Dennis?
LOL. ***heehee*** Just making sure.:D

Dennis said shipping hopefully next Monday or Tuesday.

Will this officially qualify me as a member of the Salk Nation, or do I have to buy the SS8 to qualify?:eek:
 
Last edited:
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
LOL. ***heehee*** Just making sure.:D

Dennis said shipping hopefully next Monday or Tuesday.

Will this officially qualify me as a member of the Salk Nation, or do I have to buy the damn SS8 to qualify?:eek:
I think the Philharmonic Nation is a protectorate territory of the Salk Nation.
 
D

Docks

Audioholic
I would love to see a cabinet cut away of both the Philharmonics and the new Salk Soundscape 8's. The Vapor Audio Cirrus cabinet looks amazing.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I would love to see a cabinet cut away of both the Philharmonics and the new Salk Soundscape 8's. The Vapor Audio Cirrus cabinet looks amazing.
Is it time to upgrade or add more speakers?:D
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Just out of curiosity, how do you know this? And if it has been measured, why is it the case?
Check soundstage's anechoic chamber measurements for deviation from linearity. The salon2s are great measuring speakers, but they're not perfect.

Why is it the case? I dunno. the tweeter probably can't handle as much heat? :confused:
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Dennis is a busy person - building crossovers for Salk and building his own Philharmonic loudspeakers at the same time.:eek:
I don't think he's building any crossovers for Salk.

If he was doing that, he'd get sick of eyerolling at all the $$$ Duelend capacitors, Mills resistors, etc that go into people's custom Salk speakers :D :rolleyes:
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top