RX A3080 fades in + out between 9 channel + stereo ITS BACK, doing same thing!

TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Are you talking about the 9ch Stereo DSP? My understanding is this just takes the stereo source and maps it to the speakers you have. For my 2060, that is the center fronts and sides since I have a 5.1 setup. I don’t think there are any virtual speakers involved. It just means if I had the other speakers it would map that stereo source to all 9.
OK, I had not really looked into this. What you say makes much more sense. So the OP is mixed up. His receiver does NOT create virtual speakers. That is impossible anyway and trying to do it would be a mess.

So the sound fades, when the phase differences try and send sound to speakers that are not there.

He can only set his AVR to the speakers he has. He can not try and recreate the effect of speakers he does not have. No wonder he has trouble.

Now we have got to the bottom of it.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Samurai
I’m definitely a stranger to these DSP modes because I never use them.

I was saying “Virtual” because Roger (Good4it) mentioned it. :D

So it seems the Yamaha 9CH DSP Mode is pathetic.

If there’s no Virtual Speakers, then there is no point of using this 9CH DSP Mode.

Just use the Dolby Surround Upmixer (DSU) for music. It takes 2CH source and upmix to all the speakers. I think Gene says to turn on the Center Spread for music?

Or did Yamaha update it so now we have both Dolby Surround Cinema DSU and Dolby Surround Music DSU?
The 3080 might, not sure. Guessing no.

The Dolby DSU you have to go into the menu to change center to wide spread then change it back to remove center spread for tv/movies which is a pain. Is this why you want separation?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
From RX-A3080 manual:

Enjoying sound field effects without surround speakers (Virtual CINEMA DSP)

If you select one of the sound programs (except 2ch Stereo and 9ch Stereo) when no surround speakers are connected, the unit utilizes Yamaha’s original virtual surround technology to reproduce up to 7-channel surround sound and enable you to enjoy the well-oriented sound field only with the front-side speakers.

So it seems that if you choose 9CH Stereo DSP Mode, you don’t get Virtual speakers.

At least that’s what it seems to me.

Which goes back to my statement- if you’re NOT getting Virtual speakers in 9CH Stereo Mode, what’s the point?

Turn off that 9CH Stereo DSP Mode and use the Dolby Surround Upmixer (DSU) that Gene has been talking about that takes 2CH source and upmix to all your REAL ACTUAL speakers.
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The 3080 might, not sure. Guessing no.

The Dolby DSU you have to go into the menu to change center to wide spread then change it back to remove center spread for tv/movies which is a pain. Is this why you want separation?
I’ll have to play with that DSU stuff some time. :D
 
Good4it

Good4it

Audioholic Chief
OK, I had not really looked into this. What you say makes much more sense. So the OP is mixed up. His receiver does NOT create virtual speakers. That is impossible anyway and trying to do it would be a mess.

So the sound fades, when the phase differences try and send sound to speakers that are not there.

He can only set his AVR to the speakers he has. He can not try and recreate the effect of speakers he does not have. No wonder he has trouble.

Now we have got to the bottom of it.

Please see my previous post #65
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
The new 3080 allows for Virtual front and rear speakers via software. It still does it with them on/off.
The new 3080 allows for Virtual front and rear speakers via software. It still does it with them on/off.
What ever the case, that is not something you would EVER want to do and as a concept is totally without merit. Just forget about it.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Samurai
Sounds right and it affects ALL channels when it happens. It makes the output of all speakers lose almost all volume for 1 to 2 seconds then back to normal volume. It does this no matter what the input is as long as it’s in 9ch mode.

It’s a big deal to me because 9ch sounds so good. No one should have a expensive brand new unit with faults. If it cannot be fixed via a software update they should send a brand new one and after it gets here the bad one will be returned. That way I won’t be without it for anymore then a day. Sending it Back will be tough enough for me.
Sounds right and it affects ALL channels when it happens. It makes the output of all speakers lose almost all volume for 1 to 2 seconds then back to normal volume. It does this no matter what the input is as long as it’s in 9ch mode.

It’s a big deal to me because 9ch sounds so good. No one should have a expensive brand new unit with faults. If it cannot be fixed via a software update they should send a brand new one and after it gets here the bad one will be returned. That way I won’t be without it for anymore then a day. Sending it Back will be tough enough for me.
I would suggest trying the Dolby DSU with the center spread on for music (off for tv/movies) to see if any drops happen.

I’m wondering if the internal amp can’t power those nice Phil speakers without the amp. Did the 1050 have drops before you adde the amp? Are all speakers dropping or just fronts or rear?

I’m not seeing this issue on my 2060 but my speakers are very efficient

If you can’t solve or fix this then I would insist on an exchange or return for another one for sure.
 
Good4it

Good4it

Audioholic Chief
I would suggest trying the Dolby DSU with the center spread on for music (off for tv/movies) to see if any drops happen.

I’m wondering if the internal amp can’t power those nice Phil speakers without the amp. Did the 1050 have drops before you adde the amp? Are all speakers dropping or just fronts or rear?

I’m not seeing this issue on my 2060 but my speakers are very efficient

If you can’t solve or fix this then I would insist on an exchange or return for another one for sure.

The 1050 did not have any problems.
 
little wing

little wing

Senior Audioholic
There is no 5 channel mode on the 3080. There is a 9 channel stereo mode. What this does is play the same signal through all the speakers you have connected. So, if you have 5 speakers connected (5.1) than you would get the same signal to all five speakers. The manual describes it this way:

"Use this program to output sound from all speakers. When you playback multichannel sources, the unit mixes down the source to two channels and then outputs the sound to all speakers".

It goes on to say it is ideal for background music at parties. My question is, why the hell would you want to down mix a multichannel source to 2 channels? Unless all you have is 2 speakers. I used it once for a party and it was fine. I can't imagine using it for anything else. The Dolby Surround mode is much better suited for TV viewing, IMO. But if he likes it, he likes it. Bottom line, it sounds like he has a defective receiver, and either the retailer or Yamaha should step up to the plate and get him another 3080.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Samurai
There is no 5 channel mode on the 3080. There is a 9 channel stereo mode. What this does is play the same signal through all the speakers you have connected. So, if you have 5 speakers connected (5.1) than you would get the same signal to all five speakers. The manual describes it this way:

"Use this program to output sound from all speakers. When you playback multichannel sources, the unit mixes down the source to two channels and then outputs the sound to all speakers".

It goes on to say it is ideal for background music at parties. My question is, why the hell would you want to down mix a multichannel source to 2 channels? Unless all you have is 2 speakers. I used it once for a party and it was fine. I can't imagine using it for anything else. The Dolby Surround mode is much better suited for TV viewing, IMO. But if he likes it, he likes it. Bottom line, it sounds like he has a defective receiver, and either the retailer or Yamaha should step up to the plate and get him another 3080.
Pretty sure he is enjoying pandora music over all 4 of his awesome Phil speakers so he can enjoy them all at once. This is perfectly fine in my opinion. His rear speakers are nice enough to use as mains for a lot of people. :)
 
Good4it

Good4it

Audioholic Chief
YEHA little wing, thanks and snake eyes also

BTW set the DSU to wide and it still does it :-(
 
little wing

little wing

Senior Audioholic
Pretty sure he is enjoying pandora music over all 4 of his awesome Phil speakers so he can enjoy them all at once. This is perfectly fine in my opinion. His rear speakers are nice enough to use as mains for a lot of people. :)
Yes true, I didn't think about that. I was thinking movies or TV watching. But Pandora, or another music source, 9 channel works fine for that.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
I've got friends that do it for some content as their hearing isn't so good anymore :)
 
little wing

little wing

Senior Audioholic
I've got friends that do it for some content as their hearing isn't so good anymore :)
Yeah, that makes sense too.

Good4it - Sorry for your troubles - I can't imagine a better receiver when it is working properly. You'll get it sorted out.
 

TechHDS

Audioholic General
I’d do a hard reset than see if it still does that. My Yammie 7790 has that virtual thing, the manual says the same thing, it’s for A virtual presence of sound when No speakers are Present creates a virtual sound. Since my unit isn’t a 9.2 unit it only is a 7.2 sooo, I just used that virtual thing and it adds a Lot of reverb and delay. Cool I guess, but not something I would use. But no drop out in sound,

Mike
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
YEHA little wing, thanks and snake eyes also

BTW set the DSU to wide and it still does it :-(
Well I have looked into this further. I have had a look at the manual and especially pages 76 and 77. I have also reviewed the spec and this whole thread.

It seem to me there are 3 possibilities.

1). The power supply/amps are just running out of gas supplying all those speakers and current limiting is being applied. That would certainly explain what you are experiencing. I do have a very strong hunch that the power supply/amp combination is compromised. Spec is 230 watts 4 ohm 1 channel driven/150 watts 8 ohms 2 channels driven. To me that is somewhat of a red flag. The fact you state the issue is getting worse makes this quite a likely contender.

2) In A1 mode this units seems to do a lot of rebalancing on the fly. This is going to involve compressors. Compressors of all types both analog and digital are renowned for pumping. I have always tried to avoid using them as far as possible, as to me they are frequently audible. This I think is also a strong contender.

3) Since these types of DSP are phase based and recordings are all over the map in terms and phase delay and therefore time sifts, it is possible the processor and software just get over whelmed and give up.

It the problem is worse the louder you play it then number 1 is almost certainly your problem.

If it is 2 or 3 then it will be present at any volume.

If the it is 3 then if you play one or both of my time and phase coherent recordings, and you do not have the problem 3 is probably the reason.

After reviewing this and the review of this year's high end receiver line up, I more than ever convinced receivers are absolutely ghastly contraptions. Now more then ever I would NEVER want to own one.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Samurai
Well I have looked into this further. I have had a look at the manual and especially pages 76 and 77. I have also reviewed the spec and this whole thread.

It seem to me there are 3 possibilities.

1). The power supply/amps are just running out of gas supplying all those speakers and current limiting is being applied. That would certainly explain what you are experiencing. I do have a very strong hunch that the power supply/amp combination is compromised. Spec is 230 watts 4 ohm 1 channel driven/150 watts 8 ohms 2 channels driven. To me that is somewhat of a red flag. The fact you state the issue is getting worse makes this quite a likely contender.

2) In A1 mode this units seems to do a lot of rebalancing on the fly. This is going to involve compressors. Compressors of all types both analog and digital are renowned for pumping. I have always tried to avoid using them as far as possible, as to me they are frequently audible. This I think is also a strong contender.

3) Since these types of DSP are phase based and recordings are all over the map in terms and phase delay and therefore time sifts, it is possible the processor and software just get over whelmed and give up.

It the problem is worse the louder you play it then number 1 is almost certainly your problem.

If it is 2 or 3 then it will be present at any volume.

If the it is 3 then if you play one or both of my time and phase coherent recordings, and you do not have the problem 3 is probably the reason.

After reviewing this and the review of this year's high end receiver line up, I more than ever convinced receivers are absolutely ghastly contraptions. Now more then ever I would NEVER want to own one.
Don’t forget he also has wireless rear speakers. The 9ch stereo would send more noticeable content to the rears than watching tv or movies in 5.1
 
Good4it

Good4it

Audioholic Chief
Thanks to everyone. TLS Guy, it seems to be ok in AI mode but I thought that was only for DVD ‘s. I’m going to see if it gets worse with volume increases.

New $2000 units should not do this. One of the reasons I upgraded was I thought it was going to be way better.
 

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