Dayton 18" HO Ported Build Thread

[highfigh]

SEAS for one have not been, there is Falcon acoustics in the UK, and they are making the KEF B i39 again as well as a range of drivers, and sales are hot. Volt are making some excellent drivers. I will look into it.

Italy has a bunch: - B&C Speakers, RCF, Lavoce, and FaitalPRO.

Peerless are still in business in Denmark along with Scanspeak.

Audax is still making drivers in France.

So, you don't have to buy inferior Asian products.

Peerless is part of Tymphany- have you seen their team?

Who We Are | Tymphany

Dynaudio is Chinese-owned, many others are, too. The number of brands you mentioned is very small compared to the past- consolidation and owner retirements are part of it, survival is another.

 

[highfigh]

That makes it difficult, not a lot of good options in the EU. Where are you in the EU? 200 litres is 7 cu.ft. That is a gigantic sub. My first model will fit the bill of that driver is available in the EU.

A 24.5" cube (using 3/4" material) is huge?

 

[TLS Guy]

Peerless is part of Tymphany- have you seen their team?

Who We Are | Tymphany

Dynaudio is Chinese-owned, many others are, too. The number of brands you mentioned is very small compared to the past- consolidation and owner retirements are part of it, survival is another.

Yes, Dynaudio is unfortunately Chinese owned now. However, their Classic drivers live on in the Morel line from Israel. That is due to shared patent arrangements of the founder.

 

[highfigh]

Yes, Dynaudio is unfortunately Chinese owned now. However, their Classic drivers live on in the Morel line from Israel. That is due to shared patent arrangements of the founder.

Dynaudio still sound good, though- they discontinued some of the most expensive models (hard to justify $140K speakers), but the pro/studio line seems to be popular.

 

[TLS Guy]

Dynaudio still sound good, though- they discontinued some of the most expensive models (hard to justify $140K speakers), but the pro/studio line seems to be popular.

Even so, I still think you can make better speakers using the Morel drivers. I used Morel drivers for most of my in wall system, but used Scanspeak for the tweeters and Dayton Audio for the sub driver.

 

[1Randy]

Be careful with GSC their engineering is suspect and that is putting it mildly.

The vented F3 of the RSS390H0 is 33 Hz. So not an impressive sub driver for HT.

This will probably get you where you want.

If you want a clean F3, you will have a cabinet on the large size. This one is reasonable.

Hmm.. In 2011 I built these with RSS315 HO , 3.6 cu/ft net tuned to18hz.
Very similar to your design.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hmm.. In 2011 I built these with RSS315 HO , 3.6 cu/ft net tuned to18hz.
Very similar to your design.View attachment 77692

You can't arbitrarily tune a speaker to anything you want. How low it will go will always be a little above the Fs of the driver. So, you aligne the driver according to what the T/S parameters permit, and then you have to accept the resultant f3.

 

[1Randy]

You can't arbitrarily tune a speaker to anything you want. How low it will go will always be a little above the Fs of the driver. So, you aligne the driver according to what the T/S parameters permit, and then you have to accept the resultant f3.

Oh boy !!... we where far off then, 315HO Fs is 26hz. I don't know how this affected the sound, but they did sound good

 

[TLS Guy]

Oh boy !!... we where far off then, 315HO Fs is 26hz. I don't know how this affected the sound, but they did sound good

You don't need 20 Hz to sound good. Actually 30 or even 40 Hz sounds very good, ir even up to about 50 Hz for the F3

 

[1Randy]

You don't need 20 Hz to sound good. Actually 30 or even 40 Hz sounds very good, ir even up to about 50 Hz for the F3

These were actually for

You don't need 20 Hz to sound good. Actually 30 or even 40 Hz sounds very good, ir even up to about 50 Hz for the F3

..For HT ??

Can you change tuning freq IF it's Above Fs ??

 

[TLS Guy]

These were actually for

..For HT ??

Can you change tuning freq IF it's Above Fs ??

The concept of tuning frequency is misguided. There is the optimal alignment of the driver based on its T/S parameters and there is misalignment, and a bad speaker.

It is the parameters of the driver that determine F3 and not the desires of the designer. If you want something else, then you need a different driver.

 

[TLS Guy]

These were actually for

..For HT ??

Can you change tuning freq IF it's Above Fs ??

Well for HT, the primary requirement is for clear natural speech. That is priority 1. Many, many fail at that first hurdle. So a realistic explosion is to an extent optimal, but even then the difference between an F3 of 30 and 20 is actually marginal in terms of telling and enjoying the story. Whereas poor speech quality which is way too prevalent really hinders telling the story big time.

 

[1Randy]

The concept of tuning frequency is misguided. There is the optimal alignment of the driver based on its T/S parameters and there is misalignment, and a bad speaker.

It is the parameters of the driver that determine F3 and not the desires of the designer. If you want something else, then you need a different driver.

Ok...how about Enclosure size.(vol)... How does varying enclosure size with the same driver change things.
...Or is there only really 1 optimal size per driver ?

 

[1Randy]

Well for HT, the primary requirement is for clear natural speech. That is priority 1. Many, many fail at that first hurdle. So a realistic explosion is to an extent optimal, but even then the difference between an F3 of 30 and 20 is actually marginal in terms of telling and enjoying the story. Whereas poor speech quality which is way too prevalent really hinders telling the story big time.

Okay..I always thought human speech was out of the range of subwoofers

 

[TLS Guy]

Okay..I always thought human speech was out of the range of subwoofers

For sealed only one. For ported, there are two, to an extent. There is the optimal alignment that gives the best SQ, and what I use for the design parameter. Then there is the extended bass alignment, that slightly lowers F3, but at the expense of bass quality, in other words it has a higher Q. I usually model both, but seldom go for the extended bass alignment as the tradeoffs are not worth it for slightly lower Hz, which will have lower output anyway. Bass quality is more important than ultimate extension in my view.

 

[highfigh]

These were actually for

..For HT ??

Can you change tuning freq IF it's Above Fs ??

The tested F3 is different from the in-room response if testing was done in controlled conditions but yes, a HT system can sound amazing with higher F3. Only special effects and few other sounds occupy the lowest part of the spectrum.

The driver determines the enclosure and response- you can change the tuning frequency, but if the port tuning frequency is far from the box's tuning, the response looks a bit like a clothesline that isn't very tight- two peaks with a negative curve between those two points. Also, if the port is tuned too low (below the Fs), the air movement isn't well controlled.

TLS referred to Quality of bass- the Q was originally called 'the Quality factor' but the full name has since been shortened (still is, in some crowds). High Q is good for a Rap/Hip Hop system, with a strong peak frequency and this is like an undamped bass drum head that rings after hitting it. Well damped results in the note, followed by no ringing and the driver's Qts determines its usefulness in various cabinet configurations.A driver made for sealed cabinet won't work well in a vented cabinet and vise-versa. There is a middle range where it can work in either, but don't expect the low frequencies to be extended or sound great.

What is Speaker Q? (Qts, Qes, Qms Explained) - Loudspeaker & Acoustic Engineering Design

If you are starting out your career in speaker design, or are an audio enthusiast, you will have heard the term "speaker Q" thrown around.

engineeryoursound.com

 

[1Randy]

For sealed only one. For ported, there are two, to an extent. There is the optimal alignment that gives the best SQ, and what I use for the design parameter. Then there is the extended bass alignment, that slightly lowers F3, but at the expense of bass quality, in other words it has a higher Q. I usually model both, but seldom go for the extended bass alignment as the tradeoffs are not worth it for slightly lower Hz, which will have lower output anyway. Bass quality is more important than ultimate extension in my view.

Do the t/s parameters indicate "ideal box volume" for a ported enclosure ?
...Or what t/s parameters should I be looking for in a Driver for a Ported Subwoofer for H.T.

...Ideally, I'm looking for the best Ported HT drivers for a box that is 6.5 cu/ft or less (Outer dimentions)

 

[1Randy]

The tested F3 is different from the in-room response if testing was done in controlled conditions but yes, a HT system can sound amazing with higher F3. Only special effects and few other sounds occupy the lowest part of the spectrum.

The driver determines the enclosure and response- you can change the tuning frequency, but if the port tuning frequency is far from the box's tuning, the response looks a bit like a clothesline that isn't very tight- two peaks with a negative curve between those two points. Also, if the port is tuned too low (below the Fs), the air movement isn't well controlled.

TLS referred to Quality of bass- the Q was originally called 'the Quality factor' but the full name has since been shortened (still is, in some crowds). High Q is good for a Rap/Hip Hop system, with a strong peak frequency and this is like an undamped bass drum head that rings after hitting it. Well damped results in the note, followed by no ringing and the driver's Qts determines its usefulness in various cabinet configurations.A driver made for sealed cabinet won't work well in a vented cabinet and vise-versa. There is a middle range where it can work in either, but don't expect the low frequencies to be extended or sound great.

What is Speaker Q? (Qts, Qes, Qms Explained) - Loudspeaker & Acoustic Engineering Design

If you are starting out your career in speaker design, or are an audio enthusiast, you will have heard the term "speaker Q" thrown around.

engineeryoursound.com

For a home theater subwoofer is the first step determining your box size limit ?

 

[1Randy]

...Would be cool if A.I could design a HT subwoofer.
We just give it some info:
- Ported,
- Size of Enclosure limit
- For H.T
- Balance of extension and Quality.
- Driver budget.
Ect.

Then it would choose the best ideal driver, ...construction,. port Length ...etc
-