Rockets versus B&W's

[zumbo]

Actually I am thinking about buying a new car soon.

You still have yet to list the equipment or even the speakers your using.....

A guess.......you over spent on them and are now looking for a scapegoat.

There are lots of car forums when you go looking. I would suggest you might take a gander so you don't get taken again.

WTF?
What is this? All of a sudden it seems as though we have alot of Rocket owners who are stuck with them and are joining in this forum to post imature crap such as this. What a joke. Some of you folks talk as if you have stock in the company. I say, sell sell sell!

 

[Fb111794]

Anybody own the Onix Rocket loudspeakers? The 750 looks good and a new 850 is coming out. Read a review where they outdid price-comparable Paradigms side-by-side, especially the tweeters. Was considering the B&W 703's and an HTM7 or even the HTM1 ($2k) with already owned DS6's. But for way less dough, the 850's and their center run $2600 total and the 2 pair of surrounds are only $600 each (to do 7.1 want 2 pair). I could save $1000 by getting 7 speakers from them versus 3 speakers from B&W. Don't want to be dissapointed though, so looking for any experience here.

http://www.av123.com/products_category_brand.php?section=speakers&brand=3

Pete:

To get back to your original question..... I auditioned MANY speakers before deciding on my Audes Blues. The B&W's you mentioned did not float my boat at all. Maybe it was the room I was in, but I really felt the bass was a bit lacking. Nice and tight yes.... but lacking in fullness all the same. Then again bass, is the most susceptble to room interaction.... so it may have been a placement issue. The mid's were clean and acurate... myabe a bit TOO anticeptic for my taste. Yes.... I am an old Boston Acoustic A-400 owner (and lover) where the mids were very lush and warm..... quite the oposite from today's speakers in general. The highs.... those were the bright spot on those B&W's. VERY detailed, clean and accurate without being harsh or bright in any way. With the bass lacking and the mids being cold and almost TOO neutral (to my ears).... the treble, just overwhelmed this speaker when I listened. So.... like I said.... not my cup of tea.

As for the ONIX Rocket 850's. I've NOT heard them yet. They are now shipping so I would go to www.audioenvy.com and register for an audition. Hopefully someone near you has them or will have them soon. That way you can at least see and hear them with your own ears rather than relying on anyone else's opinion.

As for ONIX in general.... too many folks in the B&M stores are dying on the vine. They have relied on snobbery and eliteism for far too long and it's starting to catch up with them. Internet direct manufacturers are starting to put a BIG hurt on their business. Not necessarily with superior products, but customer service that puts most of them to SHAME. How many B&M store OWNERS do you have their personal cell phone number and are told to call day or night if you aren't COMPLETELY satisfied?

AV123 is a fine company. They don't employ shills or secret marketing strategies, their employees, all use their real screen names when posting on forums, and their owner has been in the audio business designing speakers for the likes of Genises and others for most of his life. He is a fine gentleman and truly cares about each and every one of his customers. You will have no worries dealing with them.

In the end.... listen to as many different brands as you can. It's all about sound, so enjoy the journey and good luck in your search!

John W.
Indy

 

[zumbo]

Genises went bankrupt. Didn't they?
They did have some nice sounding car audio stuff. I think there was some reliability issues. If this is the same company you mention.

 

[furrycute]

WTF?
What is this? All of a sudden it seems as though we have alot of Rocket owners who are stuck with them and are joining in this forum to post imature crap such as this. What a joke. Some of you folks talk as if you have stock in the company. I say, sell sell sell!

Suddenly 10 newly registered members popping up to promote the Rockets.

This is exactly what happened over at the avsforum. All the voices of criticism of the Rocket line of speakers are drowned out in a sea of posts by this Rocket cabal.

 

[furrycute]

Personally, it doesn't matter to me that some of you fellas that have only participated on this forum for the sole purpose of defense and/or promotion of av123.

It also doesn't bother me that you guys have something to gain or loose from anything negative being posted about av123.

For myself and others, I would like to think that we are just a community of hifi geeks that like to meet and chat about the various options out there, in order to better our own and each others hifi experience. However, when you taint this brotherhood with clever marketing tactics and biased motives, the validity of the brotherhood is quickly diminished.

I have seen where av123 has been called to task for their questionable marketing practices across some of the various HT forums on the web. I witnessed this occurence over at avsforum and S&V a while back.

I just think its important (for readers) to know just who is feeding them their information in cases such as this.

best,
Ross.

Couldn't have said it better myself! Bravo!

 

[craigsub]

Well...

You did not see Rocket owners start a thread ripping into other company's products, marketing methods ... nothing.

And, for example, John W. is not even a Rocket owner. He IS, however, a nice guy and a gentleman.

The audio community could USE a few more gentlemen.

 

[Fb111794]

WTF?
What is this? All of a sudden it seems as though we have alot of Rocket owners who are stuck with them and are joining in this forum to post imature crap such as this. What a joke. Some of you folks talk as if you have stock in the company. I say, sell sell sell!

Oh come on.... I may be new here.... but talk about imature.

Why not take the high road? If someone likes a particular brand of speakers and says so.... why is that somehow wrong? Just agree to disagree, state your opinion and go on.

Resorting to stuff like this is what causes bad blood and ill feelings and frankly isn't needed or wanted I'm sure.

Besides.... they're SPEAKERS.... MDF boxes with wood veneer, drivers, crossovers, binding posts and some wire. That's it. There is a lot more important things in life to get your feathers all ruffled about.... don't you think?

 

[zumbo]

This was out of context! WTF was about this

You still have yet to list the equipment or even the speakers your using.....

A guess.......you over spent on them and are now looking for a scapegoat.

There are lots of car forums when you go looking. I would suggest you might take a gander so you don't get taken again.

. Not speakers!

 

[zumbo]

You did not see Rocket owners start a thread ripping into other company's products, marketing methods ... nothing.

And, for example, John W. is not even a Rocket owner. He IS, however, a nice guy and a gentleman.

The audio community could USE a few more gentlemen.

This thread was not started to rip on anything. It was a question. B&W or Rocket. Then, when people answered, Rocket owners joined up to defend their product.

 

[Fb111794]

Genises went bankrupt. Didn't they?
They did have some nice sounding car audio stuff. I think there was some reliability issues. If this is the same company you mention.

I think Arnie Nudell would take issue with that statement. No.... they don't make car audio stuff as far as I know.

As for bankrupt.... again, I can't speak to that but a LOT of companies use the bankruptcy courts to re-organize at various times in their life. Most come out of it .... some do not.

For example.... what kind of insulation or shingles do you have in/on your house? Owens Corning maybe? (you know.... the "Think Pink" and "Pink Panther" guys).... for your information.... they are in Bankruptcy right now. So Bankruptcy, doesn't mean diddly squat unless a company went belly up and left folks hanging in the lurch.... which Genisis most certainly did not.

John W.
Indy

 

[Fb111794]

This was out of context! That was about cars. Not speakers!

To which ROCKET car were you refering to then? One I'm not aware of for sure.... and stock? If somebodies got some to sell, sell, sell.... I'm in the mood to buy, buy, buy!

 

[furrycute]

You did not see Rocket owners start a thread ripping into other company's products, marketing methods ... nothing.

The Rocket line of speakers is probably one of the MOST heavily promoted internet speakers since the advent of the internet brand speakers.

Let's see, a bit of history here. The company av123 first started carrying the Swans brand of speakers. Those were touted to be the best speakers ever made. Then they got into legal problems with B&W because the Swans line copied B&W's top mounted tweeter design. Then av123 dissociated itself from the Swans line, and started carrying the Rockets. All of a sudden there were no more praises for the previous "BEST speaker of the millenium," and the Rockets were touted as the BEST speakers ever made.

During its initial release, the Rockets were touted to be better than the Klipsches. Then the stakes got progressively higher, the Rockets were hyped to be better than many long established and highly respected brands, such as the Dunlavy's, B&W's, KEF's, Sonus Fabers, Vienna Acoustics, Energies, etc.


No other company has promoted its speakers in this underhanded fashion and shameless quantity.

This is why there was such a huge backlash against the Rockets and the company av123 across many audio forums about a year and a half ago. Things quieted down a bit since then. But there seems to be a resurrgence of this Rocket hype as of late.

 

[craigsub]

You are going to be FUN ...

Suddenly 10 newly registered members popping up to promote the Rockets.

This is exactly what happened over at the avsforum. All the voices of criticism of the Rocket line of speakers are drowned out in a sea of posts by this Rocket cabal.

Furrycute .. Perhaps YOU could provide evidence regarding all your original accusations. While you are working on THAT, explain how offering a blind test is defending, promoting, or doing anything else "pro-Rocket" ????

 

[zumbo]

I think Arnie Nudell would take issue with that statement. No.... they don't make car audio stuff as far as I know.

As for bankrupt.... again, I can't speak to that but a LOT of companies use the bankruptcy courts to re-organize at various times in their life. Most come out of it .... some do not.

For example.... what kind of insulation or shingles do you have in/on your house? Owens Corning maybe? (you know.... the "Think Pink" and "Pink Panther" guys).... for your information.... they are in Bankruptcy right now. So Bankruptcy, doesn't mean diddly squat unless a company went belly up and left folks hanging in the lurch.... which Genisis most certainly did not.

John W.
Indy

Yes, but the Genisis I am speaking of made "lifetime warranty tweeters". I think this was the reason they went bankrupt.

 

[zumbo]

To which ROCKET car were you refering to then? One I'm not aware of for sure.... and stock? If somebodies got some to sell, sell, sell.... I'm in the mood to buy, buy, buy!

You are lost. You need to go back and read the entire thread. Not just pieces.

 

[furrycute]

Furrycute .. Perhaps YOU could provide evidence regarding all your original accusations. While you are working on THAT, explain how offering a blind test is defending, promoting, or doing anything else "pro-Rocket" ????

Craigsub, I was a long time active member on the avsforum during that Rocket craze. That's why I know so much about the history of the Rocket line and the history of the company av123.

After that whole Rocket debacle about a year and half ago, I became so disgusted with this Rocket cabal, I left the avsforum and have not posted since. Since you have been an active member on the avsforum, you know as well as I do the history behind the Swans and the Rockets.

And craigsub, I am still waiting for that meet date, so I can send you a quote for the roundtrip airfare.

 

[craigsub]

Can you provide evidence ?

And don't even get me started on the shady internet discussion forum advertising this company engages in. This company is known to use its employees to register at various online audio discussion forums, and from there pose as independent consumers, hyping up the Rocket line of speakers.

Go to www.avsforum.com, and do a search on the keyword "rockets" in the speakers' discussion forum. Read those posts from about a year and a half ago. There was quite a backlash against all the shady shill advertising. The forum administrator checked the IP addresses of those members hyping the Rockets, and guess what, most of those IP addresses belong to one company (you can guess which company it is).


If there is one thing I loathe the most in business, it is dishonesty in advertising. I have no problems with companies doing online advertising, as long as those companies clearly identify themselves as the advertisers. However I have BIG problems with companies engaging in shill advertising, that is using its employees to pose as independent consumers giving favorable reviews to that company's products.

The sound quality of the Rocket line of speakers is average at best (many would say it is below par). Yet that company actively engages in shill advertising, hyping up the sound quality, planting the idea in novice hometheater enthusiasts that they are saving A LOT of money if they purchase internet direct speakers such as the Rockets. This is absolute nonsense. Walk into any respected audio store, and you will find established brand name speakers that offer superior audio quality, compared to the Rockets, at far more attractive prices.

You make some statements here as if you were stating facts. Factual information is provable. Do you have, for example, evidence that AV123 employees posted under "fake names"? Can you say who exactly, as a forum administrator, did this research into the IP addresses ?

Or are you stating what YOU thought happened during this time period.

By the way, I have walked into many high end stores, and have auditioned a LOT of fine speakers. I made a choice based on experience.

If you are serious about these accusations, it would only be fair of you to provide some proof... including a link, if you have it.

As for a date ... We are looking at late April as of now...

 

[furrycute]

A link. During that whole Rocket debacle, threads about Rockets often ran into the hundreds of pages. Even if I do a search right I would have to comb through these thousands of pages from about a year and half ago. But if you were there at that time, you should know as well as I what kind of backlash there was against the Rockets on the avsforum.

 

[furrycute]

As for a date ... We are looking at late April as of now...

Good, I'll be there. Send me an e-mail when you have a definite date, and I'll send you a quote of the roundtrip airfare.

 

[craigsub]

Backlash ?

A link. During that whole Rocket debacle, threads about Rockets often ran into the hundreds of pages. Even if I do a search right I would have to comb through these thousands of pages from about a year and half ago. But if you were there at that time, you should know as well as I what kind of backlash there was against the Rockets on the avsforum.

You made a lot of statments that fall outside "backlash" ... If memory serves, the BIG thread was titled "Rockets ... the best *value* speaker ever?" ... with a question mark ...

I did read through a lot of the thread, and there was both too much Rocket Hype and too much ... Anti Hype, for lack of a better word.

I will let you know, for sure, when we set a date ...