Rockets versus B&W's

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Ross

Junior Audioholic
I to have gotten to audition diff. models that av123 has to offer at local meet-n-greets, both towers and bookshelves.

I would have to agree that they do leave a bit to be desired, especially after all of the glowing comments from their followers.

Most people will litter these pages with justifications for why they bought a particular product. After all, most people don't want to think they made a bad decision after all of the deliberation and research they've conducted, and often times it gets personal...

anywho...

At this particular price point, I would have to say that there are definitely some strong contendors and/or better choices out their, compared to the rockets. Paradigm, Boston, Polk, Energy, B&W, are just a few...

After all, this is a company that had a very rocky start, due to legal troubles with B&W...

best,
Ross.
 
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TinHere

Enthusiast
Ross said:
I to have gotten to audition diff. models that av123 has to offer at local meet-n-greets, both towers and bookshelves.

I would have to agree that they do leave a bit to be desired, especially after all of the glowing comments from their followers.

Most people will litter these pages with justifications for why they bought a particular product. After all, most people don't want to think they made a bad decision after all of the deliberation and research they've conducted, and often times it gets personal...

anywho...

At this particular price point, I would have to say that there are definitely some strong contendors and/or better choices out their, compared to the rockets. Paradigm, Boston, Polk, Energy, B&W, are just a few...

After all, this is a company that had a very rocky start, due to legal troubles with B&W...

best,
Ross.
Gotta jump in again.

The glowing comments come from people that liked what they heard and obviously have different preferences than you do. Both opinions are correct. Stating what makes x better than y in one's opinion can help people find a speaker they like assuming they share your tastes or not.

The "rocky start" you claim they had was over a "trade dress" issue [top mounted tweeters] with the Diva by Swan speakers that they distributed. This was before the introduction of the Rocket line that was already being planned. BTW Diva's are still being distributed so I guess in reality it wasn't much of a legal issue, and certainly not worth the costs of time and money to prove a point. IIRCC Wharfdale was also named and continued to make speakers with top mounted tweeters. Anybody can threaten anybody with legal action, but it doesn't mean that they have a case nor should it reflect badly unless that case has been proven. Their start was anything but "rocky" as evidenced by their successes and expansion. AV123 and their products have been thoroughly scrtuinized by very demanding on line enthusiasts and their following continues to grow with satisfied customers. They have earned their good name and deserve, from a business stand point, not to have that good name denegrated with off handed comments and half truths.
 
R

Ross

Junior Audioholic
If you like your rockets, then by all means enjoy them.

My basic point, is that av123 does not make a superior product when compared to other various brands at equal price points.

They are just another duck in the pond...nothing more...nothing less...

best,
Ross.
 
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TinHere

Enthusiast
Ross said:
If you like your rockets, then by all means enjoy them.

My basic point, is that av123 does not make a superior product when compared to other various brands at equal price points.

They are just another duck in the pond...nothing more...nothing less...

best,
Ross.
I do enjoy them. Thank you.

Your basic point is an opinion that I'm not here to argue. It's way too subjective an issue to reach an accord other than to each his own, or agree to disagree.

If all ducks are the same I can see how I can agree with your last statement.

Nuff said. I'm not here to stir things up. I just wanted to correct some misstatements about AV123.

Enjoy your system as well. :cool:
 
furrycute

furrycute

Banned
Not all ducks are created equal. Just as not all cars, not all speakers are created equal.

A BMW (B&W) would give me much better handling, smoother acceleration, better ride, compared to a KIA (Rocket). :cool:
 
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zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
But you do get a 100,000 mile warranty with a KIA! And, you save some bucks. But, that does not make it a better car. Not even second best. Come to think of it, I would say it would be right down at the bottom! :eek:
 
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VS540

Junior Audioholic
furrycute said:
Not all ducks are created equal. Just as not all cars, not all speakers are created equal.

A BMW (B&W) would give me much better handling, smoother acceleration, better ride, compared to a KIA (Rocket). :cool:

Obviously not all opinions are created equal either as I and many others disagree, and feel the Rockets out class B&W, Paradigm, PSB, Klipsch, etc. in looks and sound.

Sorry I came into the game as many others did, fully expecting the Rockets to fail and already being somewhat biased against them. It wasn't until I saw and heard the Rockets that I knew/thought, they out performed B&M speakers in the same or above price range.

If you don't like them then fine, but to tell others they are bad sounding or of poor quality is ridiculous. I could say the same about the B&W's and Para's I listened to. I don't because I at least have the sense to understand audio is mainly opinion. What one person likes others may hate, when I recommend speakers to people I'm honest and make it a point to let them know it's all about personal preference. I recommend B&W, Paradigm, Klipsch, etc. even though I personally dislike them, they unlike me might love them. People should pick speakers by using their own ears not by some popularity contest, that is usually highly biased to begin with.

Oh and furrycute your allegations are just that, nothing more than allegations. Since AV123 so shady you better go warn the 16+ other speaker/electronic companies doing business with AV123 and having their products made and or developed by them. Some of which are very well respected and high end companies. If that's not enough call up Arnie Nudell of Genesis and Paul McGowan of PS Audio and ask them what they think of Mark Schifter (founder of AV123). I think they would sing nothing but praise about Mark, his products, and his company.
 
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zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
furrycute: Have you been to your nearest Infiniti dealer? They are after BMW. You can't stay on top forever. I think KIA has a long way to go. :D
 
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zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
VS540 said:
Obviously not all opinions are created equal either as I and many others disagree, and feel the Rockets out class B&W, Paradigm, PSB, Klipsch, etc. in looks and sound.

Sorry I came into the game as many others did, fully expecting the Rockets to fail and already being somewhat biased against them. It wasn't until I saw and heard the Rockets that I knew/thought, they out performed B&M speakers in the same or above price range.

If you don't like them then fine, but to tell others they are bad sounding or of poor quality is ridiculous. I could say the same about the B&W's and Para's I listened to. I don't because I at least have the sense to understand audio is mainly opinion. What one person likes others may hate, when I recommend speakers to people I'm honest and make it a point to let them know it's all about personal preference. I recommend B&W, Paradigm, Klipsch, etc. even though I personally dislike them, they unlike me might love them. People should pick speakers by using their own ears not by some popularity contest, that is usually highly biased to begin with.

Oh and furrycute your allegations are just that, nothing more than allegations. Since AV123 so shady you better go warn the 16+ other speaker/electronic companies doing business with AV123 and having their products made and or developed by them. Some of which are very well respected and high end companies. If that's not enough call up Arnie Nudell of Genesis and Paul McGowan of PS Audio and ask them what they think of Mark Schifter (founder of AV123). I think they would sing nothing but praise about Mark, his products, and his company.
I think Primus, or Sam L. Jackson said,"you can put pearls on a pig, but it's still a pig."
 
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furrycute

furrycute

Banned
zumbo said:
furrycute: Have you been to your nearest Infiniti dealer? They are after BMW. You can't stay on top forever. I think KIA has a long way to go. :D
There is an Infiniti dealer about 10 miles from where I live. Will give the Infiniti's a try. Thanks for the tip. :D
 
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zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
The wife has had a G35 coupe for a little over two years. It has not been back to the dealer once. It is a very well made car, and it will get it! The G35 sedan gets the 280 hp engine for '05!
 
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zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
That's her baby. I would post some pics, but I have not sprung for the digital camera yet.
 
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Ross

Junior Audioholic
A quick observation:

Most every post, 9 out of 11 (VS540) has made at this forum is based on the defense of rocket loudspeakers...

Most every post, 3 out of 4 (TinHere) has made at this forum is also based on the promotion or defense of rocket loudspeakers...

hmmmmmmmmmm.....

must be coincidence...

c'mon fellas....

Ross.
 
furrycute

furrycute

Banned
You don't say! :eek:


Ross said:
A quick observation:

Most every post, 9 out of 11 (VS540) has made at this forum is based on the defense of rocket loudspeakers...

Most every post, 3 out of 4 (TinHere) has made at this forum is also based on the promotion or defense of rocket loudspeakers...

hmmmmmmmmmm.....

must be coincidence...

c'mon fellas....

Ross.
 
T

TinHere

Enthusiast
Ross said:
A quick observation:

Most every post, 9 out of 11 (VS540) has made at this forum is based on the defense of rocket loudspeakers...

Most every post, 3 out of 4 (TinHere) has made at this forum is also based on the promotion or defense of rocket loudspeakers...

hmmmmmmmmmm.....

must be coincidence...

c'mon fellas....

Ross.
What hmmmmmmmmmmm?

C'mon fellas what?

If untrue statements are made they should be corrected. I made very clear in my first post why I felt compelled to join. It's no coincidence, it's simply a matter of not letting false and derogatory comments stand unchallenged as if they were factual. Be assured if it wasn't VS540 or myself there would be someone else to defend a well deserved good name if the trash talk posted was noticed. We just happened to see it and responded.

What do you do when you see someone you care about getting bashed? I was one of Mark's first customers at AV123 and one of the first to share the very positive experience I had in my dealings with them online. I've had e-mail correspondence, phone conversations, and spent time with Mark. The comments made totally misrepresented his company and their ethics. I'm pretty burned out with posting on forums, but this is a subject that motivates me.

I'd be talking about cars too if I had a position I couldn't defend. You can close ranks, agree that the falsehoods have merit, and I'm part of a conspiracy, but it doesn't make you right. Now I'm at four out of five.
 
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T-Bone

Enthusiast
furrycute said:
I heard those Rockets side by side with Paradigms. No comparison, I preferred the Paradigms hands down. The Rockets have a narrow soundstage, way too much bass boom, not so great imaging.
This thread is whack (lots of bashing for no apparent reason), but I would like to address this response... exactly which rockets,, and which paradigms did you compare? Without models, your response is not very helpful to the members.

I've listened to Paradigm Monitor 7s and 9s, even Studio 40s (all three lines in a dealer shop). Tried the Polk LSi9s too. Ended buying a Rocket package based on the 550 MK II to demo (with Bigfoot center and RSS300 surrounds). Liked it so much I kept it.

I will say that I preferred the Bigfoot over the Para CC-470, and that CC-470 costs a bundle. Sometimes, if it costs more, you may not always like it.

Not to say the other brands are crap, because they are not. I just preferred the Rockets. I never heard the 750 Sigs.
 
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T-Bone

Enthusiast
furrycute said:
http://forum.av123.com/showthread.php?threadid=5859

Read it here on how "laid back" the 750 really is. Please note, laid back is euphomism for rolled off high end, exaggerated low end. As to the level of detail the 750 model brings out, I would take that with a grain of salt. The descriptive terms smooth and detailed almost always contradict each other.

The original 750 was hyped to be the best speaker ever made, surpassing the Dunlavy's, Dynaudio's, B&W's, etc. Then the 750 signature came out, and these were hyped to be the best speakers ever made. Then the Onix reference line came out, and those were hyped to be the best speakers ever made. Maybe it's me, but I am skeptical of any company that claims to come out with 3 successive "best speakers in the world" within a span of 2 years. After all, Intel only comes out with a better computer chip once every year or so. :rolleyes:
The term "laid back" refers to the absence of upper treble energy (like the link to the av123 forum you referred us to stated). Actually, many folks are accustomed to lots of bass and lots of highs (if they have an EQ, the bass is raised, as well as the upper freqs, and the mids might be even lowered a bit).

So naturally, if a speaker appears to lack highs, it must be "laid back" because it is not what we may be accustomed to. The only real test for a speaker, with respect to labeling, is to have a slew of measurements. Test equipment, when properly calibrated, does not lie. It reveals the speaker characteristics.
 
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zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
Pete Dzwonkas said:
Anybody own the Onix Rocket loudspeakers? The 750 looks good and a new 850 is coming out. Read a review where they outdid price-comparable Paradigms side-by-side, especially the tweeters. Was considering the B&W 703's and an HTM7 or even the HTM1 ($2k) with already owned DS6's. But for way less dough, the 850's and their center run $2600 total and the 2 pair of surrounds are only $600 each (to do 7.1 want 2 pair). I could save $1000 by getting 7 speakers from them versus 3 speakers from B&W. Don't want to be dissapointed though, so looking for any experience here.

http://www.av123.com/products_category_brand.php?section=speakers&brand=3
This is the question: B&W 703's, or Rocket 850's?
This is the answer: B&W 703's.
Just answer Pete's question.
 
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