Replacing current speakers because of ear fatigue

Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks Pogre, So my instincts are right and they sound good as is not just in my head lol
Yup. You're not nuts. I even mentioned at the beginning of this thread that those are pretty good budget speakers. You did good with those. Makes it a little bit tougher finding something significantly better, but I think you're shopping in the right budget range to do it.

I also think you're going about this the right way (if there is any 1 'right way', lol) by taking your time, getting out there and gaining some experience with other brands. I'm enjoying reading about your experiences, impressions and conclusions.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Sony made excellent speakers before, they know how to do it for sure.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Sony made excellent speakers before, they know how to do it for sure.
I just looked up the 602s and MA Silver100s. There's a difference of roughly 3 dB in sensitivity with the 602 at 84 dB and the Silvers at 87. That could be why the 602s may have sounded warmer and the Silvers brighter. Maybe go again and this time turn the 602s up by 3 dB on the same system when comparing with the Silvers for a closer spl match? That worked pretty well for me at home with my Marantz receiver. When I compared my Sierras with my Ultras I turned the Ultras up 2 more dB on the dial and it was really close to real world spl measurements.
 
Q

qba

Audioholic
Yup. You're not nuts. I even mentioned at the beginning of this thread that those are pretty good budget speakers. You did good with those. Makes it a little bit tougher finding something significantly better, but I think you're shopping in the right budget range to do it.

I also think you're going about this the right way (if there is any 1 'right way', lol) by taking your time, getting out there and gaining some experience with other brands. I'm enjoying reading about your experiences, impressions and conclusions.
Thanks Pogre between this reply and am_p "That B&W will do no such thing as blowing your Sony out of the water!"

I think this search is officially over! As I mentioned before, I'm not paying $1000 for something that only may give me %10 of improvement in sound quality. This was an amazing amount of time and effort well spent even though it was only to find out that my ear discomfort may have come from long periods of loud volumes but I discovered as well that I ended up without knowing buying a very good pair of sounding speakers.

If at any point I find out that the listening fatigue or discomfort is not associated with the loud volumes but with the speakers themselves, I don't think I need to even think about what to buy, I'm just going to buy Monitor Audio Silver or the Paradigm Premier 100B.

If that is the case I will go back to try to listen to those two again, but if it then I don't see any noticeable differences which of the two do you guys think I should keep?
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
If that is the case I will go back to try to listen to those two again, but if it then I don't see any noticeable differences which of the two do you guys think I should ke
Whichever ones put the biggest smile on your face! :p If the Sony's do that (and the price you paid for those good speakers is a legitimate part of the 'smile factor') then you're good to go.

Another thing that a lot of folks overlook is how much the room and speaker positioning affects the sound quality. The bestus most accurate speakers in the world can sound like crap with poor room interactions due to placement. Just finding the right sweet spot can completely transform the way it sounds. I have no idea your situation with being able to rearrange some and try different placement or how much work would be involved, but it's free and you might be surprised how much better placement can make it sound.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks Pogre between this reply and am_p "That B&W will do no such thing as blowing your Sony out of the water!"
Well there's a little bit of controversy behind that site and the way they draw conclusions. They're really harsh with their comments and beat up some of the equipment they test based on some pretty minor stuff. I'm surprised that Am_P even linked the site since he states they're all a bunch of "cheese heads" who don't know what they're talking about...
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Well there's a little bit of controversy behind that site and the way they draw conclusions. They're really harsh with their comments and beat up some of the equipment they test based on some pretty minor stuff. I'm surprised that Am_P even linked the site since he states they're all a bunch of "cheese heads" who don't know what they're talking about...
Just to add on, the tests and measurements they do there at ASR are accurate for the most part and provide great info on the product. I just question the hyperbolic subjective comments amirm uses when explaining those measurements. I've seen him rip equipment to pieces because of how it measures, even tho its not audible. To his credit he usually acknowledges that, but leaves the impression it's total garbage when the flaws can't even be heard.
 
Q

qba

Audioholic
Well there's a little bit of controversy behind that site and the way they draw conclusions. They're really harsh with their comments and beat up some of the equipment they test based on some pretty minor stuff. I'm surprised that Am_P even linked the site since he states they're all a bunch of "cheese heads" who don't know what they're talking about...
Thanks Pogre, but you lost me a little bit here. What site are you referring to?, I didn't see any link by Am_P in his reply, I'm referring to the reply #93
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks Pogre, but you lost me a little bit here. What site are you referring to?, I didn't see any link by Am_P in his reply, I'm referring to the reply #93
I'm the one who's confused. I thought it was Am_P who linked that review but I see it was you who put it up in post #81. Which makes a whole lot more sense now, lol.
 
Q

qba

Audioholic
Thanks Pogre,
Whichever ones put the biggest smile on your face! :p If the Sony's do that (and the price you paid for those good speakers is a legitimate part of the 'smile factor') then you're good to go.
My issue is that they both added the smile factor as I was listening to them, so the question is if when I listen to them again, they just sound equally good, are there any other factors apart from return policy and price, that I should be aware of? Like measurements, better quality build, better company behind it, etc, you were in my situation where you have to pick one of the two after they both sounded equally good to you, which one will you pick?

Another thing that a lot of folks overlook is how much the room and speaker positioning affects the sound quality. The bestus most accurate speakers in the world can sound like crap with poor room interactions due to placement. Just finding the right sweet spot can completely transform the way it sounds. I have no idea your situation with being able to rearrange some and try different placement or how much work would be involved, but it's free and you might be surprised how much better placement can make it sound.
Thanks for that!
 
Q

qba

Audioholic
I'm the one who's confused. I thought it was Am_P who linked that review but I see it was you who put it up in post #81. Which makes a whole lot more sense now, lol.
lol now everything makes more sense :)
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
My issue is that they both added the smile factor as I was listening to them, so the question is if when I listen to them again, they just sound equally good, are there any other factors apart from return policy and price, that I should be aware of? Like measurements, better quality build, better company behind it, etc, you were in my situation where you have to pick one of the two after they both sounded equally good to you, which one will you pick?
Well... if I was stuck and couldn't seem to pick a clear winner based on sound I would probably pick the Silvers. Only because of reputation, looks and better bass performance. I have a pr-existing bias toward Monitor Audio tho, based in the information and reviews I've seen about them so not exactly very scientific, lol.

If you don't think they sound any better than your Sony's I'd just keep the Sony's. Not a very satisfying answer if you've been bit by the upgrade bug tho...

I've been bit. I know the struggle is real! :p
 
Q

qba

Audioholic
Well... if I was stuck and couldn't seem to pick a clear winner based on sound I would probably pick the Silvers. Only because of reputation, looks and better bass performance. I have a pr-existing bias toward Monitor Audio tho, based in the information and reviews I've seen about them so not exactly very scientific, lol.

If you don't think they sound any better than your Sony's I'd just keep the Sony's. Not a very satisfying answer if you've been bit by the upgrade bug tho...

I've been bit. I know the struggle is real! :p
Thanks a lot, Pogre that is the answer I wanted to hear, a clear winner! I didn't want to mention this so I wouldn't affect your opinion. Of all the speakers I listened to, Monitor Audio is the only one that has this embedded thread on the back, to hang the speakers on the wall, that feature will save me money and headaches, trying to make custom changes to one of those wall bases. I screwed the Sony to the base because they are inexpensive but I can't do that to a $1000 one.

We got a winner in case I can't win the upgrade bug :)
 
-Jim-

-Jim-

Audioholic Field Marshall
qba,

I'm shocked you don't know one of the fundamental rules of being an Audiophile. Any incremental increase in sound quality typically costs vastly more and more $$ as you move up the scale - all other things being equal. :rolleyes: I used to say it's a logarithmic relationship.:eek:

Your near field mounting is really adding a wild card to the mix as well. It's too bad you can't just move the Sony's apart to give you a wider soundstage. I don't think you'll be overwhelmed by the performance difference of your chosen speaker once the "newness" of them wears off at home. The biggest difference you can make is the setup.

But if you insist on pushing ahead with new speakers, I hope they make you happy. (Isn't that what this is all about?) To get these speakers at the same volume in the stores, download an SPL App for your Smart Phone. (There lots of free ones as I remember) I know on my last iPhone it worked pretty well. I have an Sound Pressure Meter (remember I'm a bit of a Geek) and I checked it. Regardless, even if it's off a few dBs it is just so you can get the same level at home, and then when listening to each speaker demo at various stores.

By the way, once you own any new speaker you certainly can (carefully) screw a mount into it. It only affects resale, which most Audiophiles don't worry about. ;)

Good Luck with your search. I hope this is helpful.
 
Q

qba

Audioholic
Thanks Jim,
qba,

I'm shocked you don't know one of the fundamental rules of being an Audiophile. Any incremental increase in sound quality typically costs vastly more and more $$ as you move up the scale - all other things being equal. :rolleyes: I used to say it's a logarithmic relationship.:eek:
So the proportion of gained quality keeps decreasing while the cost of the upgrade increased? lol

Your near field mounting is really adding a wild card to the mix as well. It's too bad you can't just move the Sony's apart to give you a wider soundstage. I don't think you'll be overwhelmed by the performance difference of your chosen speaker once the "newness" of them wears off at home. The biggest difference you can make is the setup.
If it is that important to separate the speakers as a way to increase sound stage and quality, let me try to convince the wife and get rid of the glass bookshelf on the right, we have been exclusively ebook readers for over a decade now, those books are there for nostalgia, we already own almost all those books on ebook now, so is like the guy collecting Bluray disk because he likes the way they look.

But if you insist on pushing ahead with new speakers, I hope they make you happy. (Isn't that what this is all about?) To get these speakers at the same volume in the stores, download an SPL App for your Smart Phone. (There lots of free ones as I remember) I know on my last iPhone it worked pretty well. I have an Sound Pressure Meter (remember I'm a bit of a Geek) and I checked it. Regardless, even if it's off a few dBs it is just so you can get the same level at home, and then when listening to each speaker demo at various stores.
The app is a doable idea for those store showrooms, but after the experience I just had I don't think I need to listen to more speakers, the ones I heard sounded different from each other but none of them sounded way better than the next, so I could have blindly picked anyone from the ones I like and be happy with it, I think I would be happy with the Monitor Audio Silver.

By the way, once you own any new speaker you certainly can (carefully) screw a mount into it. It only affects resale, which most Audiophiles don't worry about. ;)
Good to know, I can't trust those screwless wall base mount, when my speakers are seated at such an angle

Good Luck with your search. I hope this is helpful.
Thanks for your wise advice!
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
That is called a very good return on investment! You had an unexpected amount of years of pleasure for the amount of money you paid for those speakers so many years ago, amazing
Actually, I was very familiar with the components in the speakers and what to expect form them. We were the second US dealer for that brand and we got special pricing. In fact, the head of US operations asked us how much they should sell for.
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
I pulled my desk away from the wall and put my speakers on stands in an optimal near field arrangement. I don't know who made the rules that a desk can't be out in the room, but they obviously didn't care about music. Especially in a room I don't entertain anyone else in. Nothing worse than trying to pit audio against a meaningless aesthetic that nobody else sees or cares about. When I expect company, it is nothing to slide the whole works back against the wall in 6 small moves, cables and all.

All of our home audio used to be at least semi-portable. I would have to slide the speakers out from behind the sofas and move an armchair to a better spot, and rearrange even more furniture when company came over to listen. In recent years, I discovered that most of my audio issues stemmed from trying to adhere to modern thinking with regard to convenience. Trying to have something 'set up' yet put away at the same time, was loaded with too many compromises. Speakers mounted on a wall like that is a last resort. I would rather use headphones.
 
Q

qba

Audioholic
Actually, I was very familiar with the components in the speakers and what to expect form them. We were the second US dealer for that brand and we got special pricing. In fact, the head of US operations asked us how much they should sell for.
Thanks highfigh, that is an amazing position to be, plus at the end, it was even a better deal :)
 
Q

qba

Audioholic
Thanks for the reply MrBoat,
I pulled my desk away from the wall and put my speakers on stands in an optimal near field arrangement. I don't know who made the rules that a desk can't be out in the room, but they obviously didn't care about music. Especially in a room I don't entertain anyone else in. Nothing worse than trying to pit audio against a meaningless aesthetic that nobody else sees or cares about. When I expect company, it is nothing to slide the whole works back against the wall in 6 small moves, cables and all.
Good point but I'm surrounded by screens almost to the top of my head, as you can see in the pictures from the previous pages, let's say I separate the table from the wall and place it in the middle of the room, this is only a 10' x 11' room, I still need to have speaker's towers taller than my head while I'm sitting down, so I could clear the monitor's height and the speakers still need to be tilted down. By being so close to the speakers, if I don't tilt the speakers down, I feel that the sound is going to pass over my head. Mounted in the wall is easier to reach the required height and tilt them down. Secondly, different members of my family like to paint from time to time, especially my daughter, in one of the pictures where I'm showing the heavy curtains behind me, that can be used to stop the sound from reflecting against the window glass, you can see the easel with her current canvas in the corner, she sometimes even likes to paint on the floor, so just can't claim this room just for my self :)

When we purchased this property we replaced all the electrical wiring, so I use the opportunity to ask on the quote to run a single Cat6a (Ethernet) to almost every room in the house, and run, 3 extra ethernet cables, one HDMI, one Optical and Coax into the back of TVs attached to the wall in different rooms, plus many speaker wires, subwoofer cable running to the "home theater room" and the Kitchen. Everything runs to an electrical room in the basement where I have metals racks from floor to ceiling with all of the AV receivers, Plex Server PC, Media Players, HDMI splitter, ethernet switches, etc.

I went through all that work and money for a few different reasons, but between the top reasons was to avoid having tables/cabinets underneath each TV taking space from our living areas. We all have our passions in life and priorities, sacrificing a small percentage of the music quality for clean and open living spaces seems to be important to our family.

But because of all of you guys' advice, I'm already making changes and taking more space from the room for my audio setup, but is going to be a lateral space that is less intrusive. I was able to convince my lovely wife yesterday, that we are going to turn the double bookshelf on the right of the desk, that used to be triple, but we reduced it to double for my workspace, into a single column bookshelf, with just her workbooks, as I previously mentioned we are all kindle readers so that bookshelf is just a nostalgia piece of an era that is no more, at least in our family. With this lateral space now those speakers can be separated even father than the length of my desk almost to the length of the whole wall that would be too much, as I'm typing this I realized I could have now speaker towers on the floor at each end of the desk!!!!! :) but I wonder if that would be too much?

Speakers mounted on a wall like that is a last resort. I would rather use headphones.
lol Come on MrBoat, those speakers in the wall with the SVS subwoofer sound at least 100 times better than any headphones you can buy at any price.
 

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