REL HT 1508 Predator

[Zedturbo]

Most importantly, this is your system, your ears, and your ducats. You do what is right for you.

Frankly, I hear the things you've said... I'm all for networking and getting a good deal... But what is that deal? That's where my little voice in the back of my head is screaming, "Nooooo!" I haven't heard a single person say Hsu is bunk.
Not.
Once.
For $1750 plus S&H, you can have 2 VTF15Hmk2 Subs of your very own, with low end response rated at 16Hz, +/- 2dB. Arguably, much better low end extension. We know, here, that it can perform with some of the better subs. Last I recall, it may have been responsible for getting Shady kicked off his Subwoofer Test Range... which means it not only performs low, but loud, too.
I'm not saying this is what you have to buy. Please don't misunderstand. I spent months shopping for Speakers and Subs. I'm just urging you to take the time to learn what you really need.

I agree and I appreciate the advice!

 

[Zedturbo]

I measured my living room. A few of you guys were asking me about the size of my living room to help me figure out the size of the subs. If I did it correctly, I calculated 252 square feet of floor space and 2520 cubic feet of air space. Length is length is 14 ft, width is 18 ft, and center of my vaulted ceiling is 10 ft.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Analysis paralysis!!! Been there done that.
Good advice here so far. Imo, as you’re probably tired of hearing, REL subs are overpriced. Although they seem to be taking a run at the HT market finally. As your use case is mostly HT/tv I wouldn’t consider a sealed sub. It can take as many as 4 to equal the output of a ported sub around its tuning, which these days is at least 20hz. For HT, that’s meat n taters!
The driver material has been covered, but I agree, it’s about motor force, and control of the driver. Drivers aren’t faster or slower. If they can play 30hz, they can play 30hz.(hz means cycles per second) Where you can have trouble is poorly designed amps and drivers that aren’t controlled, or high Q low damped systems that are sloppy. That leads to one note boomy fart boxes.
Also as said, with most competently built subs(read: most ID sub builders), IF there is a question of precision, it’s almost always the room, and integration with the rest of the speakers.
Go listen to some “shoes”. I believe they’re the value leader right now academically speaking.
Ok. Blathering over...

 

[shadyJ]

The driver material has been covered, but I agree, it’s about motor force, and control of the driver. Drivers aren’t faster or slower. If they can play 30hz, they can play 30hz.(hz means cycles per second) Where you can have trouble is poorly designed amps and drivers that aren’t controlled, or high Q low damped systems that are sloppy. That leads to one note boomy fart boxes.

For many of these messy subs, I don't think its amp control over driver so much as it is bad tuning in bandpass systems. Many cheap HTiB subs using bandpass designs get go for a lot of output between 40 Hz and 80 Hz, but that causes some really terrible group delay and 'boominess' since the sub can only really reproduce such a narrow range.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

For many of these messy subs, I don't think its amp control over driver so much as it is bad tuning in bandpass systems. Many cheap HTiB subs using bandpass designs get go for a lot of output between 40 Hz and 80 Hz, but that causes some really terrible group delay and 'boominess' since the sub can only really reproduce such a narrow range.

Yeah that’s definitely true with some. My FIL has a Jamo bandpass sub. The system is on the second floor, suspended floor of a split entry house. That sub is soooo obnoxious, it’s not even funny. I level matched it with 0 boost over the other channels and yeah, 40-80 is painful. I’m sure there are modes at play too, especially considering it’s like a wide band room mode in a box. Lol

 

[Pogre]

I measured my living room. A few of you guys were asking me about the size of my living room to help me figure out the size of the subs. If I did it correctly, I calculated 252 square feet of floor space and 2520 cubic feet of air space. Length is length is 14 ft, width is 18 ft, and center of my vaulted ceiling is 10 ft.

Did you say earlier your room was open to other spaces? That's gonna matter if so.

 

[Zedturbo]

Analysis paralysis!!! Been there done that.
Good advice here so far. Imo, as you’re probably tired of hearing, REL subs are overpriced. Although they seem to be taking a run at the HT market finally. As your use case is mostly HT/tv I wouldn’t consider a sealed sub. It can take as many as 4 to equal the output of a ported sub around its tuning, which these days is at least 20hz. For HT, that’s meat n taters!
The driver material has been covered, but I agree, it’s about motor force, and control of the driver. Drivers aren’t faster or slower. If they can play 30hz, they can play 30hz.(hz means cycles per second) Where you can have trouble is poorly designed amps and drivers that aren’t controlled, or high Q low damped systems that are sloppy. That leads to one note boomy fart boxes.
Also as said, with most competently built subs(read: most ID sub builders), IF there is a question of precision, it’s almost always the room, and integration with the rest of the speakers.
Go listen to some “shoes”. I believe they’re the value leader right now academically speaking.
Ok. Blathering over...

I do have an option to get the Rel at a nice discount so I guess the question is, money aside, would the Rel be a good option as far as build and sound quality? I get that they are overpriced but if the price was the same as others, which would people pic???

 

[Zedturbo]

Did you say earlier your room was open to other spaces? That's gonna matter if so.

Yes it is. A large opening behind me and a hallway to the right. Def not a sealed bedroom. I know sound will escape all over the place and that's why I was thinking I needed to overcompensate with the bass. Would that be accurate?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I do have an option to get the Rel at a nice discount so I guess the question is, money aside, would the Rel be a good option as far as build and sound quality? I get that they are overpriced but if the price was the same as others, which would people pic???

Well, I’m sure build quality will be impeccable. The problem for ME, and I think for you will be it’s sealed design. For movies and tv especially, a ported sub is just almost always better. You have a decent amount of airspace to pressurize so a ported sub(at least the ones in this conversation) will be far more capable.
So no, even though price is the same, performance won’t be and I feel like you’d be shopping for a new sub in short order. If this was for a mostly music vs HT system, I would think the REL would do OK, although at full price I would still find a comparable ID company to buy a sealed sub from.

 

[Zedturbo]

Well, I’m sure build quality will be impeccable. The problem for ME, and I think for you will be it’s sealed design. For movies and tv especially, a ported sub is just almost always better. You have a decent amount of airspace to pressurize so a ported sub(at least the ones in this conversation) will be far more capable.
So no, even though price is the same, performance won’t be and I feel like you’d be shopping for a new sub in short order. If this was for a mostly music vs HT system, I would think the REL would do OK, although at full price I would still find a comparable ID company to buy a sealed sub from.

Thank you for your opinion and yes, this is mostly for HT/T.V., very small percent of music only. I def want 2 subs. I will be able to demo just one Rel HT/1508 at my house soon thanks to my contact but unfortunately, I won't be able to experience two at a time so it still won't be a true test to what they can sound like but maybe I'll get a taste of it. I'm so leary of getting a sealed too. I just don't want to make an expensive mistake and everyone's feedback has been so helpful!

 

[Pogre]

Yes it is. A large opening behind me and a hallway to the right. Def not a sealed bedroom. I know sound will escape all over the place and that's why I was thinking I needed to overcompensate with the bass. Would that be accurate?

Yes. You'll need to account for the space your room is open to as well. A subwoofer needs to pressurize your room and it will "see" all that extra space.

 

[Zedturbo]

Yes. You'll need to account for the space your room is open to as well. A subwoofer needs to pressurize your room and it will "see" all that extra space.

I figured but now my battle is sealed vs. ported. Not sure which one I need. Seems like this question isn't just black and white. Hard to let go of that much $$$ on my uneducated guess so I'm picking everyone's brain

 

[Pogre]

I figured but now my battle is sealed vs. ported. Not sure which one I need. Seems like this question isn't just black and white. Hard to let go of that much $$$ on my uneducated guess so I'm picking everyone's brain

For a large area I'd say go ported. When I was researching I was pretty stuck on getting sealed because they're "better with music". I ended up going ported and have since changed my mind. I think if a sub is competently designed and built it's gonna work well for music, sealed or ported. You'll get a little more bang for your buck with a ported enclosure.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

For a large area I'd say go ported. When I was researching I was pretty stuck on getting sealed because they're "better with music". I ended up going ported and have since changed my mind. I think if a sub is competently designed and built it's gonna work well for music, sealed or ported. You'll get a little more bang for your buck with a ported enclosure.

I agree, and wish the whole “sealed is better for music” thing would die.
Also, as I mentioned before, it can take as many as 4 similarly equipped sealed subs to equal the out of a ported sub. To me, for movies there’s not even a question. Sealed isn’t “tighter”(that is a function of integration), and won’t dig nearly as deep without multitudes of them. IMO, that area below 30-35hz where most sealed units roll off is where HT gold is.(soundtrack depending of course). I know you’re a music guy first but

I know you know what I know!!!

 

[ryanosaur]

That's why I wrote what I did earlier about my experience with the ported Outlaws I have. Not interested in selling you on them, Grant. Just sharing that even in extended mode, these subs perform very well. (Also, I do not have any experience with REL, nor have I found any bench-testing of that sub... which disappoints.) regardless, ported subs can easily be great performers across the spectrum, for HT and Music. Likewise, you will get better output for HT in your open room with ported. I think I suggested earlier that you would need to deploy a squad of sealed subs to really experience the benefit assuming your open area exceeds ~3000'3. That's not necessarily a hard-fast number, but it does seem to be where benefits of cabin gain start to break down.

Did you say you live within an hour of Hsu? If you get that REL for an in-home trial... I would get a Ported Hsu VTF3 or VTF15 (whichever interests you the most) and have it in your room for a side by side comparison. You'll need to pick a great spot for the subs, and move them repeatedly... but this is the best way for you to experience them, and their differences.

When it comes to planning on how to set up your subs, Low Frequencies are strange beasts, and though a crude technique, I recommend the Subwoofer Crawl to identify the best place(s) to put them. It does work well assuming you are not prepared to do in-depth room measurements.

Cheers!

 

[Zedturbo]

That's why I wrote what I did earlier about my experience with the ported Outlaws I have. Not interested in selling you on them, Grant. Just sharing that even in extended mode, these subs perform very well. (Also, I do not have any experience with REL, nor have I found any bench-testing of that sub... which disappoints.) regardless, ported subs can easily be great performers across the spectrum, for HT and Music. Likewise, you will get better output for HT in your open room with ported. I think I suggested earlier that you would need to deploy a squad of sealed subs to really experience the benefit assuming your open area exceeds ~3000'3. That's not necessarily a hard-fast number, but it does seem to be where benefits of cabin gain start to break down.

Did you say you live within an hour of Hsu? If you get that REL for an in-home trial... I would get a Ported Hsu VTF3 or VTF15 (whichever interests you the most) and have it in your room for a side by side comparison. You'll need to pick a great spot for the subs, and move them repeatedly... but this is the best way for you to experience them, and their differences.

When it comes to planning on how to set up your subs, Low Frequencies are strange beasts, and though a crude technique, I recommend the Subwoofer Crawl to identify the best place(s) to put them. It does work well assuming you are not prepared to do in-depth room measurements.

Cheers!

Thank you for that! I'm limited to a total of 3 spots for sub placement w/o completely re-designing my living room and again, would like two subs. I can drive down to Hsu and see what they have going on along with test out the Rel in my house. Would be nice to have two different models side by side in my own living room but not possible w/o buying, and returning what I don't like.

 

[snakeeyes]

I agree, and wish the whole “sealed is better for music” thing would die.
Also, as I mentioned before, it can take as many as 4 similarly equipped sealed subs to equal the out of a ported sub. To me, for movies there’s not even a question. Sealed isn’t “tighter”(that is a function of integration), and won’t dig nearly as deep without multitudes of them. IMO, that area below 30-35hz where most sealed units roll off is where HT gold is.(soundtrack depending of course). I know you’re a music guy first but

I know you know what I know!!!

Gotta have ported for serious home theater. I do use a sealed sub in my bedroom system though.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think William's point about how many sealed subs it can take to equal the low output of ported subs (even if using the same driver) bears repeating. One reason I went with multiple large sealed subs was due the large volume of space, plus wanted some low end, plus wanted to keep my builds a bit simpler as I'm a beginner in woodworking (sealed being simpler to build as well as smaller). Had I built ported boxes I would probably have stopped at two.....

 

[ryanosaur]

Thank you for that! I'm limited to a total of 3 spots for sub placement w/o completely re-designing my living room and again, would like two subs. I can drive down to Hsu and see what they have going on along with test out the Rel in my house. Would be nice to have two different models side by side in my own living room but not possible w/o buying, and returning what I don't like.

Just a tip; the best sub can be a complete dud if the placement does not coincide with the room's acoustics. Not trying to scare you, but if you are willing to try, the sub will tell you where it belongs. Again, low frequencies are strange beasts. They are omni-directional and very long. If your placement coincides with a null you may lose certain frequencies completely. Strategic placement of two subs can and will deliver amazing bass performance.

 

[NINaudio]

It can take as many as 4 to equal the output of a ported sub around its tuning, which these days is at least 20hz. For HT, that’s meat n taters!

Holy crap, I need to build 3 more U-18's?!?!