Rec Room Renovation

[GO-NAD!]

Well, before I'm permitted to do anything else with my HT, I've been given marching orders to renovate the Rec-age room. The ceiling and the wall with two windows in it are both stucco-ed and that will be the first change. Since that drywall will be coming down, I'll run some in-wall wire for my surrounds as well as pot lights in the ceiling, replacing the existing track lighting.

My wife wants me to put acoustic insulation in the ceiling as the master bedroom is directly above the HT location. But, we have forced hot air heating and anybody who has it knows how well sound can travel through the ductwork. Plus, the stairwell is open - there is no door dividing the basement from the main floor. So, would I be wasting time and money by putting in acoustic insulation?

Plus, I'll be ripping up the carpet and installing laminate over electric in-floor heat. I dug up around my foundation a couple of years ago to sort out the drainage and it is absolutely bone dry down there now. We used to get a little bit of water in the laundry room during heavy rain, but not now. I expect the room will become pretty reflective with the new flooring, but I have no idea how bad it'll be. Would acoustic insulation in the ceiling and thermal insulation in the outer walls reduce that effect to any appreciable degree? Or, will the drywall negate any benefit, except at the lowest frequencies?

I just scored a pair of Energy RC-R's for 1/2 price, to replace my present surrounds on stands, which I could never position for best performance as the room is too narrow. Since I can mount the Energy's on the wall, I'll free up some floor space, as well as get rid of wire on the floor. I'm just wondering how high they can be mounted. If they are mounted at seated listening height, I just know that somebody is going to be smacking into them.

What's the general consensus on going 7.1/2? If I were to go that route, the two rear channels would have to be in-ceiling and I'm not sure they'd be of much benefit in that location.

We very briefly considered going with a projector and screen, instead of a large TV. But, I'm not kean on having one hanging from the ceiling and SWMBO is really not kean on it.

The open area at the left-hand side of the sketch will be taken up by the computer desk, treadmill, bookcases, etc. So, that's out of bounds. The broken line in the sketch is my border.

So, any suggestions or things to consider are welcome. I'd like to "git 'er dun" before Christmas. Then, I can get the TV and build my dual subs.

 

[m_vanmeter]

the ceiling insulation certainly will not hurt, it will stop some sound, or at least deaden it. A second layer of drywall on the ceiling, separated with "Green Glue" http://www.greengluecompany.com/ will help even more.

No area rug on the flooring ? Drywall and a hard surface flooring will be very active in bouncing sound.

Why not install something like a "french door" (passage door with glass panels) in the hall to the stairs....or heavy draw drapes across the hallway to deaden sound while the room is in use.

If you are uncertain about 7.1, wire for it while the walls are open...whether you use it or not will not depend on wiring later.

Make sure you run in a CAT5e line for all the internet connected stuff in a newer HT setup (wired is always better than wi-fi) and a dedicated 20 amp 120v AC line as well.

 

[GO-NAD!]

the ceiling insulation certainly will not hurt, it will stop some sound, or at least deaden it. A second layer of drywall on the ceiling, separated with "Green Glue" http://www.greengluecompany.com/ will help even more.

No area rug on the flooring ? Drywall and a hard surface flooring will be very active in bouncing sound.

Why not install something like a "french door" (passage door with glass panels) in the hall to the stairs....or heavy draw drapes across the hallway to deaden sound while the room is in use.

If you are uncertain about 7.1, wire for it while the walls are open...whether you use it or not will not depend on wiring later.

Make sure you run in a CAT5e line for all the internet connected stuff in a newer HT setup (wired is always better than wi-fi) and a dedicated 20 amp 120v AC line as well.

I thought about the rug thing, but the in-floor heating manufacturer advises against it.

No room for any doors to the stairway and I don't think it would be permitted anyway. Same for the heavy drapes.

Yeah, I was thinking I might wire for rear surrounds anyway - then it's just a matter of cutting the holes and hooking up. But, as I said they would have to be in-ceiling and I'm wondering how well that would work.

When it comes to internet connections, I'm on a cable modem. I never thought of burying it in the walls, but I do have about 25' of cable running around the perimeter of the room, so I guess I should take care of that as well. I have to admit, when it comes to how I can connect the HT to the internet, I haven't a clue. I don't even know if I need CAT5e cable - that's how far behind I am in that area. I want to make sure I'm future-proof, so advise in that area is definitely welcome.

Thanks a lot for the input!

 

[MDS]

I have to admit, when it comes to how I can connect the HT to the internet, I haven't a clue. I don't even know if I need CAT5e cable - that's how far behind I am in that area. I want to make sure I'm future-proof, so advise in that area is definitely welcome.

TVs are starting to include network jacks and BD players can use an internet connection to download 'extra' stuff (supposedly things like director commentaries and the like). If you can get a cat5e cable or two to the HT room and have a way for it to get back to a switch or router connected to the cable modem, then you could take advantage of those features.

At a minimum you need cat5e because you just might want/need to support gigabit ethernet in the future. cat6 is generally overkill but if it doesn't cost much extra would be fine to use.

 

[GO-NAD!]

TVs are starting to include network jacks and BD players can use an internet connection to download 'extra' stuff (supposedly things like director commentaries and the like). If you can get a cat5e cable or two to the HT room and have a way for it to get back to a switch or router connected to the cable modem, then you could take advantage of those features.

At a minimum you need cat5e because you just might want/need to support gigabit ethernet in the future. cat6 is generally overkill but if it doesn't cost much extra would be fine to use.

Yeah, I'm going to have to read up on that before I start this project. Thanks!

 

[m_vanmeter]

what is hooked up to your cable modem now ? Does it have routing functions and extra connection ports, or just one output port ?

As for the rear speakers....no need to cut holes in the ceiling, just prewire and measure and record carefully where the wire is in the ceiling. Or, let the wire penetrate the drywall and just push it back flush with the finished ceiling - no one will even notice it. Only cut into the ceiling when you are sure you want to add speakers. Leave 5+ feet or extra cable coiled in the ceiling at each location.

I just added a Roku box to my primary setup and a Western Digital TV Live Plus box to a secondary for internet access, Netflix streaming and Pandora. That resulted in several hours crawling around in a very restricted crawl space to run CAT5e wiring for the computer network I "never needed before" Ugh ! MUCH better to prewire while the walls are open !!!

 

[GO-NAD!]

what is hooked up to your cable modem now ? Does it have routing functions and extra connection ports, or just one output port ?

As for the rear speakers....no need to cut holes in the ceiling, just prewire and measure and record carefully where the wire is in the ceiling. Or, let the wire penetrate the drywall and just push it back flush with the finished ceiling - no one will even notice it. Only cut into the ceiling when you are sure you want to add speakers. Leave 5+ feet or extra cable coiled in the ceiling at each location.

I just added a Roku box to my primary setup and a Western Digital TV Live Plus box to a secondary for internet access, Netflix streaming and Pandora. That resulted in several hours crawling around in a very restricted crawl space to run CAT5e wiring for the computer network I "never needed before" Ugh ! MUCH better to prewire while the walls are open !!!

Right now, the modem goes to a wireless router for the wife's laptop and to our desktop computer, which is situated between the left surround speaker and the lower left window in the sketch. The cable enters the rec room (from the laundry room) in the upper right-hand corner, beside the right main speaker. In that corner, the cable is split, with one feed going to the Digital TV box and the other going around the perimeter of the room to the computer desk.

So, does this make sense?

1) Bring the splitter back to the laundry room.
2) Run one feed into the same corner as before, to go to the Digital TV box.
3) Run the other feed from the laundry room, through the rec room ceiling and down the wall to an outlet behind the computer desk.
4) Install a CAT5 wall port behind the desk and another one back in the same corner where the TV cable enters the room. Then run CAT5 cable through the wall and ceiling to connect the two.
5) I can then connect a CAT5 cable from the modem on the desk to the wall port and another from the other wall port to the BDP (when I get that component).

I hope that description is clear enough. If not, I'll do another sketch.

Thanks again!

 

[BMXTRIX]

Your obvious issues are things you are already aware of and you are doing things which specifically don't help.

Hardwood/laminate flooring is going to bounce the audio around like crazy. It will brighten the room and almost everyone in these types of rooms complains about how harsh the audio sounds. This is a choice, and is your to make as you see fit. I really DO like hardwood/laminate, but I avoid it in living areas where people will be talking and especially in my audio areas of my home. Even though it would look better, it is truly functionally terrible and backwards from my use. If you think that it will be of greater enjoyment to have the laminate flooring, then you are aware of the tradeoff and have made a decision.

It seems like have you have a lot of compromises in the space you are in, none of which is to the benefit of the final use of the room.

I would ditch the laminate floors and go to a good dark carpet with thick padding to make it comfortable to walk on for hours on end and to make the room feel more comfortable. I would go with double drywall on the ceilings with green glue and I might add acoustical insulation, but probably not. I would go with dark colors to get the most out of the home theater experience, especially the carpet and ceilings. I would put in a TON of recessed lights so that if I had a party, I could turn the lights up plenty bright for everyone to see. I would zone those lights in several areas so that where I don't want light, I can turn them off.

Since I finished my basement recently, these were exactly the choices I made, and my wife still isn't 100% sold on them, but friends who have come over love the space and the kids love the space, and my wife never came down there before and STILL doesn't come down there, so it really doesn't matter if she likes it or not.

The final use of the space is the most critical thing that I think that people should take into mind when building out any space of their home. You can give up all functionality for aesthetics, or you can give up all aesthetics for functionality, or you can pick and choose those items which matter most. This is where it is really an 'up to you' decision, as you have to live with however things end up being.

Biggest failings I see regularly: Poor lighting design/installation. Poor space management. Terrible job on wiring properly.

I would SERIOUSLY consider a front projector in the space. The way you have it drawn, your 60" screen is about 84" wide in there right now! At a 12' viewing distance, a 100"-110" front projection setup would be ideal and look great in there with just some curtains added to the windows to block the light closest to the screen.

Anyways, wiring is really the key on the A/V side and I recommend that you pull a lot of CAT5/6 cabling throughout everything in the basement at the very least and add conduit to major locations. Your equipment to the display, your equipment to an unfinished space, etc. CAT5/6 adapters for HDMI are readily available and the cabling is incredibly versatile for a ton of different uses. I pulled FOUR pieces of CAT5 to my projector location in my basement. That could give me network, control, and HDMI if I need it. Total cost for 4 pieces of CAT5 - about 10 bucks. The one 35' HDMI cable I ran was about $30. So, you can see how it's a pretty inexpensive item to get in place.

Now is the time to think things through and to have fun with the space, but one of the biggest things in my opinion is figuring out just how you will be using the space and what the people who will be using the space the most really want from it.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Your obvious issues are things you are already aware of and you are doing things which specifically don't help.

Hardwood/laminate flooring is going to bounce the audio around like crazy. It will brighten the room and almost everyone in these types of rooms complains about how harsh the audio sounds. This is a choice, and is your to make as you see fit. I really DO like hardwood/laminate, but I avoid it in living areas where people will be talking and especially in my audio areas of my home. Even though it would look better, it is truly functionally terrible and backwards from my use. If you think that it will be of greater enjoyment to have the laminate flooring, then you are aware of the tradeoff and have made a decision

Man, you're preaching to the choir. I suggested new carpet, but it got shot down. Laminate is easier to keep clean, so that's what it has to be. I might be able to incorporate some wall treatments, if I play my cards right. Plus, I'll try to steer her towards some well-stuffed furniture. Is leather bad, acoustically?

I would go with double drywall on the ceilings with green glue and I might add acoustical insulation, but probably not.

So, what's this "green glue"? I thought about acoustic drywall, but I'd have to take out another mortgage.

I would go with dark colors to get the most out of the home theater experience, especially the carpet and ceilings. I would put in a TON of recessed lights so that if I had a party, I could turn the lights up plenty bright for everyone to see. I would zone those lights in several areas so that where I don't want light, I can turn them off.

She wants lighter colours (of course ), because it's a dark room (small windows). We already planned to go with recessed lights, but if I put in a lot, as you suggest, I might be able to get away with a darker colour.

Since I finished my basement recently, these were exactly the choices I made, and my wife still isn't 100% sold on them, but friends who have come over love the space and the kids love the space, and my wife never came down there before and STILL doesn't come down there, so it really doesn't matter if she likes it or not.

Well, we tend to do stuff together, so I guess she has to like it too. It may seem like she's uncompromising, but I've gotten my way with a lot of stuff, so I have to bend sometimes. If this was a dedicated room, I could probably do anything I wanted with it. But, it ain't.

The final use of the space is the most critical thing that I think that people should take into mind when building out any space of their home. You can give up all functionality for aesthetics, or you can give up all aesthetics for functionality, or you can pick and choose those items which matter most. This is where it is really an 'up to you' decision, as you have to live with however things end up being.

This is a multi-use space, which is why it involves some serious compromises. I'm just trying to find ways to work around them.

Biggest failings I see regularly: Poor lighting design/installation. Poor space management. Terrible job on wiring properly.

Do you have any lighting suggestions regarding recessed lights, i.e. spacing, location, pattern?

I would SERIOUSLY consider a front projector in the space. The way you have it drawn, your 60" screen is about 84" wide in there right now! At a 12' viewing distance, a 100"-110" front projection setup would be ideal and look great in there with just some curtains added to the windows to block the light closest to the screen.

Well, I should've stated that my sketch wasn't perfectly to scale - it was just meant to illustrate the basic layout. Looking at different TV models in the 58"-60" range would probably be around 55"-60" wide - not 84". I'm not fully decided on the type of display, but if I suggest a projector, I know I will encounter resistance. I won't discount a projector yet.

I recommend that you pull a lot of CAT5/6 cabling throughout everything in the basement at the very least and add conduit to major locations. Your equipment to the display, your equipment to an unfinished space, etc. CAT5/6 adapters for HDMI are readily available and the cabling is incredibly versatile for a ton of different uses. I pulled FOUR pieces of CAT5 to my projector location in my basement. That could give me network, control, and HDMI if I need it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "throughout everything in the basement". Do you mean run it to every room, or just put outlets in several locations in the rec room?

What other uses would I have for CAT5 cable? As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm not well-read on household network. To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, "I don't know what I don't know." If I knew the potential applications, I'd have a better idea where to install it.

Thanks for the input!

 

[BMXTRIX]

Is leather bad, acoustically?

You know, since I've put carpet in rooms, I haven't thought a lot about furniture. I would think that anything NOT wood would be better acoustically than more wood. But, I also expect that as a denser material, leather may have a bit more potential for bouncing audio. I wouldn't shy away from leather I think.

So, what's this "green glue"? I thought about acoustic drywall, but I'd have to take out another mortgage.

http://www.greengluecompany.com/

Someone linked in the first response to your post with the link above, but here it is again. Green Glue is a sound isolation type of caulking. There is probably a specific explanation of it and how it works on their website, but it basically keeps sound from passing from one sheet of drywall to the next, significantly reducing sound transmission. I haven't used it, but I do know that the secure rooms I've been in use this in construction of secret facilities for soundproofing.

She wants lighter colours (of course ), because it's a dark room (small windows). We already planned to go with recessed lights, but if I put in a lot, as you suggest, I might be able to get away with a darker colour.

The rest of the home is probably bright as well. This is always a challenge, but darker rooms tend to be more intimate and a quiet, darker room (like good restaurants) are much friendlier places and much more calming for people. It is worth a line of discussion to at least consider as a dark room, doesn't mean a 'YUCK' room, but the use of darker colors can enhance relaxation and intimacy while the lights in the space allow you to see just as you can in every other room. It's amazing what can be done. Also, dark carpets don't get dirty like renter's beige (or lighter) carpets do. Our medium grey carpet, in our family room, is absolutely my favorite color carpet I have ever had in my life. Amazingly clean with 2 boys running around on it for 5 years, while the rest of our beige carpets are a bit worn in. (out?)

Well, we tend to do stuff together, so I guess she has to like it too. It may seem like she's uncompromising, but I've gotten my way with a lot of stuff, so I have to bend sometimes.

There is still a lot of compromise available if the discussion is right I would expect. The hard part is always the sale. It becomes easy with the right angle of attack. Fortunately, my wife had ZERO input on our basement design. Not sure why, but I picked the colors, design, layout, etc. for everything. Good luck though!

This is a multi-use space, which is why it involves some serious compromises. I'm just trying to find ways to work around them.

A lot of rec rooms are multi-use, but are then designed like an upstairs room and like every other room of the house. This is truly a failure in understanding what a rec room is to be used for. People like chilling out on carpeted floors. They like a 'quiet' space in the house that is a bit different. As I've said, this is your choice, but there is still a lot of room between 'blackout room' and 'room like every other room in the house'.

Do you have any lighting suggestions regarding recessed lights, i.e. spacing, location, pattern?

Lighting is fun I think. You can mix it up - go to a lighting store. I think about every 4-5 feet there should be a light starting about 2-3 feet from the walls. The zoning is all about the layout but lights closest to any screen area should be able to be turned entirely off. People won't stand where the screen is and you do want a separate zone over the seating/couch area, and another zone for the open area. A minimum of 3 zones for your space makes sense. Then, if you want, add sconces, or art lights, or specific task lighting as appropriate. The cans are the biggie though as they are the ones which will really light the space up.

Well, I should've stated that my sketch wasn't perfectly to scale - it was just meant to illustrate the basic layout. Looking at different TV models in the 58"-60" range would probably be around 55"-60" wide - not 84". I'm not fully decided on the type of display, but if I suggest a projector, I know I will encounter resistance. I won't discount a projector yet.

I know, I was just messing with you, but if you do look at the picture, that size screen doesn't seem outrageous, and if you are only putting ONE display in the space, then the open rec room area will have full visibility of a 100" projection setup vs. a 60" display. Not really any more space impact other than the projector which should be flush mounted about 12-13' from the screen.

I'm not sure what you mean by "throughout everything in the basement". Do you mean run it to every room, or just put outlets in several locations in the rec room?

CAT5 is not network cable until you use it as network cable and connect it to your network. I use it to power my cordless phone in one room so I can hide the lousy looking transformer in the basement. I use it to send HDMI video from my PS3 to my plasma TV. I use it with IR emitters and more. The wire itself is one of the most versatile wires you can pull in your home. Heck, some people have used it for speaker cabling.

On a more general side, using it as a network cable gives you wired networking. No matter what, a wired network is faster and more reliable and more secure than a wireless setup.

You may want to consider (perhaps) locating some of your A/V gear away from the front of the room to a discrete location elsewhere in the basement and wiring for the projector/TV from that head end location, then using an RF remote control to run the show. It gets the gear out of the room and cleans things up some. You also aren't stuck buying a nice equipment console if you don't already own one.

What other uses would I have for CAT5 cable? As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm not well-read on household network. To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, "I don't know what I don't know." If I knew the potential applications, I'd have a better idea where to install it.

Thanks for the input![/QUOTE]

 

[GO-NAD!]

The rest of the home is probably bright as well. This is always a challenge, but darker rooms tend to be more intimate and a quiet, darker room (like good restaurants) are much friendlier places and much more calming for people. It is worth a line of discussion to at least consider as a dark room, doesn't mean a 'YUCK' room, but the use of darker colors can enhance relaxation and intimacy while the lights in the space allow you to see just as you can in every other room. It's amazing what can be done. Also, dark carpets don't get dirty like renter's beige (or lighter) carpets do. Our medium grey carpet, in our family room, is absolutely my favorite color carpet I have ever had in my life. Amazingly clean with 2 boys running around on it for 5 years, while the rest of our beige carpets are a bit worn in. (out?)

That's a good way to look at it. Food for thought....

Lighting is fun I think. You can mix it up - go to a lighting store. I think about every 4-5 feet there should be a light starting about 2-3 feet from the walls. The zoning is all about the layout but lights closest to any screen area should be able to be turned entirely off. People won't stand where the screen is and you do want a separate zone over the seating/couch area, and another zone for the open area. A minimum of 3 zones for your space makes sense. Then, if you want, add sconces, or art lights, or specific task lighting as appropriate. The cans are the biggie though as they are the ones which will really light the space up.

Great suggestions! A trip to a lighting store may be in order.

I know, I was just messing with you, but if you do look at the picture, that size screen doesn't seem outrageous, and if you are only putting ONE display in the space, then the open rec room area will have full visibility of a 100" projection setup vs. a 60" display. Not really any more space impact other than the projector which should be flush mounted about 12-13' from the screen.

That is certainly worthy of consideration! I'm not hopeful though...

CAT5 is not network cable until you use it as network cable and connect it to your network. I use it to power my cordless phone in one room so I can hide the lousy looking transformer in the basement. I use it to send HDMI video from my PS3 to my plasma TV. I use it with IR emitters and more. The wire itself is one of the most versatile wires you can pull in your home. Heck, some people have used it for speaker cabling.

On a more general side, using it as a network cable gives you wired networking. No matter what, a wired network is faster and more reliable and more secure than a wireless setup.

As I mentioned, I have some reading to do.

You may want to consider (perhaps) locating some of your A/V gear away from the front of the room to a discrete location elsewhere in the basement and wiring for the projector/TV from that head end location, then using an RF remote control to run the show. It gets the gear out of the room and cleans things up some. You also aren't stuck buying a nice equipment console if you don't already own one.

I thought about that, but I can't think of an alternate location. I had planned on building the component stand myself. I already have the wood sitting in my shed. We'll see.....

Thanks again.

 

[jostenmeat]

GO-NAD!, you are getting great input, and I will leave the most part of it alone. When the walls are down, run conduit, just in case you later realized you forgot to throw in some wire or other. Bigger is better of course, but I think I read the min would be something like 1.5" for a couple of HDMI cables, but with longer runs, even that might be too small.

IMO, going with a PJ is an absolute no brainer for this kind of room. THANK YOU for running it lengthwise (man, I've been frustrated by many others, including a particular friend of mine).

I would in fact think about what I'm thinking about. False wall, DIY Seymour fabric, three identical speakers. Now, your wife doesn't even have to see the following things in this room, all hidden:

-sub(s)
-treatments for front corner trapping (arguably best bang for buck spot)
-treatments for SBIR on front wall
-all three LCRs

This would be easy as pie for you, I am led to believe.

The Seymour fabric for say a 110" screen at 16:9 is about $100, and it's said with some frequency that this stuff is some of the best for visual/color accuracy. (However, in your case, I would buy more, so that you can "tilt" the fabric, so that the weave pattern is angled say at 20 deg; this only matters if you buy a 3LCD pj like and Epson or Panny.) It is also often described as the best for AT, as a weave, and not micro-perfed.

A PJ universal mount, pipe, etc, is maybe $200. You can save on pipe by going to home depot on having them cut something, and then you can paint it. Or you can do some hidden hush box, but I know that is an involved thing, and in fact depending on how big it is, might in fact be uglier. I do have a friend that had a cheap PJ, and he mounted some mirror thing right underneath it. I had no idea he even had a PJ (he was just firing at blank wall, which you will NOT do!). Or you can just shelf mount.

If you need a place to buy a PJ, I highly recommend AVS store. You can PM Jason Turk for quotes + shipping. There is an AHer who gets his PJs from them as well, sent all the way to Japan.

At 27'10" long, your proposed seating distance seems to be pretty close to 38%, or 10.58' from front wall. This is the accepted starting point for LP, for the best evening out of axial modes. With the inclusion of nonaxial modes, whether tangential or oblique, this figure may drop down to as low as 33% according to b pape.

Oh, if you do the false wall, that naturally means the screen is closer by a couple/few feet. The 38% still holds as if the false wall didn't exist, but the viewing angle has now changed. Let's say 8ft away, then I'd aim for about 75" screen if not slightly bigger. Now you might be thinking well that's not that* much larger than a 60" TV, but it's still like a 56% increase in size (see below), and most importantly of all, you can have the *truly* ideal setup for your front soundstage. Nothing beats three identical, vertically arrayed speakers all on the same plane.

http://tvcalculator.com/index.html?1678805c7b5675ec4932bfccb2a1d168

Feel free to ask me anything that you think I can help you with.

EDIT: I forgot to add, I concur with not only GG + double dry wall, but insulation too. I am well aware of the open passageway, but I still vote for this, if it's easy enough and affordable enough.

 

[GO-NAD!]

GO-NAD!, you are getting great input, and I will leave the most part of it alone. When the walls are down, run conduit, just in case you later realized you forgot to throw in some wire or other. Bigger is better of course, but I think I read the min would be something like 1.5" for a couple of HDMI cables, but with longer runs, even that might be too small.

Yes, I've received some great info. I'm fine with running wire - I'm just not sure where I need to run it!

I figure I'll run wire to my surrounds, pre-wire for a pair of in-ceiling rears ( just in case I decide to go that route).

Plus, I could run some co-ax & CAT5 as I mentioned previously:

Right now, the modem goes to a wireless router for the wife's laptop and to our desktop computer, which is situated between the left surround speaker and the lower left window in the sketch. The cable enters the rec room (from the laundry room) in the upper right-hand corner, beside the right main speaker. In that corner, the cable is split, with one feed going to the Digital TV box and the other going around the perimeter of the room to the computer desk.

So, does this make sense?

1) Bring the splitter back to the laundry room.
2) Run one feed into the same corner as before, to go to the Digital TV box.
3) Run the other feed from the laundry room, through the rec room ceiling and down the wall to an outlet behind the computer desk.
4) Install a CAT5 wall port behind the desk and another one back in the same corner where the TV cable enters the room. Then run CAT5 cable through the wall and ceiling to connect the two.
5) I can then connect a CAT5 cable from the modem on the desk to the wall port and another from the other wall port to the BDP (when I get that component).

Beyond that, I can only think of wiring for a projector, if that is an option we decide to go with.

IMO, going with a PJ is an absolute no brainer for this kind of room. THANK YOU for running it lengthwise (man, I've been frustrated by many others, including a particular friend of mine).

Yeah, I'll have to discuss the projector option with her again. Her objection is having a box hanging from the ceiling. I'll have to research methods for making it less conspicuous.

She actually mentioned turning the orientation of the HT 90degrees. That is one area I refuse to compromise and I squashed that proposal right away.

I would in fact think about what I'm thinking about. False wall, DIY Seymour fabric, three identical speakers. Now, your wife doesn't even have to see the following things in this room, all hidden:

-sub(s)
-treatments for front corner trapping (arguably best bang for buck spot)
-treatments for SBIR on front wall
-all three LCRs

I've been following your false wall thread, but to be honest, I'd have to see photos or a sketch in order to understand what you're doing.

This would be easy as pie for you, I am led to believe.

Well, I'm quite comfortable with carpentry, cabinetry, household electrical, etc. I just need to know what it is I have to do.

...you can "tilt" the fabric, so that the weave pattern is angled say at 20 deg; this only matters if you buy a 3LCD pj like and Epson or Panny.) It is also often described as the best for AT, as a weave, and not micro-perfed.

I'm not even going to pretend to know what you're talking about...


Thanks for your input. Much appreciated. I was hoping to start this project this fall, but with so much to consider - and the arguments I expect to have -I may just take the next couple of months to plan, then start in January/February.

 

[m_vanmeter]

another quick question about you internet connections.

cable modem - one output connection or 4/5 connection ports ?

wireless box - wireless only, or 4 additional connection ports ?

is your desktop computer wired to the modem or the wireless unit ?

just trying to get a mental picture of how your two computers and access points are wired.

 

[jostenmeat]

Yes, I've received some great info. I'm fine with running wire - I'm just not sure where I need to run it!

I figure I'll run wire to my surrounds, pre-wire for a pair of in-ceiling rears ( just in case I decide to go that route).

Does Monoprice ship to CA? A 250ft roll of 12 AWG no less is only $60. If you wanted to go crazy future proof, you could also run for width and height speakers too!

Plus, I could run some co-ax & CAT5 as I mentioned previously:

For sure, it's just a matter of where you want to put your equipment in relation to display.

I've been following your false wall thread, but to be honest, I'd have to see photos or a sketch in order to understand what you're doing.

I'm not sure it would help you, TBH. However, I'll give you some varying examples.

Well, I'm quite comfortable with carpentry, cabinetry, household electrical, etc. I just need to know what it is I have to do.

That's what I was trying to say.

Thanks for your input. Much appreciated. I was hoping to start this project this fall, but with so much to consider - and the arguments I expect to have -I may just take the next couple of months to plan, then start in January/February.

That's understandable, and in fact probably advisable. I mean you can probably learn what you need well sooner than that, but depending on the learning curve, amount of time you have to spend reading, the quality of advice you're given, etc, it can take a while sometimes, and so why rush it. I've been obsessed for years now, and I still learn something new just about everyday.

Some photos of either a false wall, or screen wall, or screen frame, or whatever people call whatever they make. The first belongs to rmk, the second to mperfct. If I attach others, they don't belong to AHers. Ok, I'm going for max limit of 10 images. Every single one uses AT screen. All but one are using Seymour. All except for one are using three identical, vertically arrayed speakers, all on the same plane, to the best of my knowledge.

Ok, I have to delete your smileys to fit in 10 . . . at 7 now . . . hm, well I deleted a couple . . . let's see . . .

 

[GO-NAD!]

another quick question about you internet connections.

cable modem - one output connection or 4/5 connection ports ?

wireless box - wireless only, or 4 additional connection ports ?

is your desktop computer wired to the modem or the wireless unit ?

just trying to get a mental picture of how your two computers and access points are wired.

The modem has one ethernet out and one USB out. The cable goes into the modem, then out to the wireless router. There are 4 ports on the router, one in use, going to the desktop computer.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Does Monoprice ship to CA? A 250ft roll of 12 AWG no less is only $60. If you wanted to go crazy future proof, you could also run for width and height speakers too!

Those are great photos of some great rooms! A couple are a bit over the top for my purposes, but that's OK. It gives me something to strive towards. The screen framework is good to see - gives me an idea of how it would be arranged.

The big problem would be where to put my components. Building an in-wall cabinet would be ideal, but I don't really have a good spot for that either. I think if I was to do a screen, it would have to be a "conventional" screen sized for the image and no bigger.

....However, in your case, I would buy more, so that you can "tilt" the fabric, so that the weave pattern is angled say at 20 deg; this only matters if you buy a 3LCD pj like and Epson or Panny.) It is also often described as the best for AT, as a weave, and not micro-perfed.

I meant to ask before....huh?^

I have to also ask, if a projector is mounted from the ceiling, it'll be pointing towards the screen at an angle. So, why isn't the image distorted as a result? Is the angle to insignificant to make a visible difference?

Monoprice does ship to Canada - but I'm guessing that the shipping cost for a 250ft roll of 12awg would obliterate any savings. I can get some good in-wall 12awg at my local Home Depot for a reasonable price. Not as cheap as Monoprice, of course, but not too bad.

I brought up the projector with my wife again and after explaining that I was getting strong advise to go that route, she didn't dismiss it outright. But, I would have to come up with a way to make it sufficiently inconspicuous. So, it's not out of the question. I have to say that the thought is appealing, but it would be just that much more work. I don't mind doing the work, but I have a tendency to become obsessed over projects, because I'm in a hurry to enjoy the end result. So, every little extra thing makes it that much longer to reach the end. Oh well...

Again, many thanks!

 

[jostenmeat]

Those are great photos of some great rooms! A couple are a bit over the top for my purposes, but that's OK. It gives me something to strive towards. The screen framework is good to see - gives me an idea of how it would be arranged.

Right. Yeah, and you can see why framework might have to vary from to person, if only screen size vs the sizes of the individual speakers.

The big problem would be where to put my components. Building an in-wall cabinet would be ideal, but I don't really have a good spot for that either.

Right. Immediate thoughts/ideas: if say you're using bookshelves, you can have a framed thing(s) with black fabric horizontally below the screen. Sort of what rmk did for subs perhaps, but for you, you can have components across the entire front wall for instance. Or, you can have a stack in between two of the speakers. My URC RF200 was about $75, and my rack is directly behind viewers. Wait, that would be hard to load a BD, ok then, have it facing sideways, outwards, next to a speaker, with a cover, whether velcro, door, something, for easy access. I dunno man.

I think if I was to do a screen, it would have to be a "conventional" screen sized for the image and no bigger.

What does conventional mean? (rhetoric.) Why couldn't you go with the "proper" size instead? Aim for starting point of 36 deg with 16:9, but with that in mind, I do normally think it's best to get the PJ first and fire it at the wall to really know. Use this calc:

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

I meant to ask before....huh?^

I accidentally erased this, then saw it, but decided to pass on it because I didn't want to bother you with smaller details due to fear of overload. Instead of having the weave pattern be perfectly horizontal, the fixed frames have the pattern rotated. I believe, depending on the type (rolldown, fixed, etc), and the size, the rotation angle may vary, but Im guessing 20 deg for the most part. Some have even 35 deg I think. Again, it's only an issue with 3LCD PJs. But, by rotating, the chances of moire are reduced regardlesss.

I have to also ask, if a projector is mounted from the ceiling, it'll be pointing towards the screen at an angle. So, why isn't the image distorted as a result? Is the angle to insignificant to make a visible difference?

I can't explain how the optics work, but it's totally fine; nothing like a cheap biz class PJ with keystoning. In fact, for my PJ, I would get an increase in ANSI contrast if I increase this angle some more. It is currently rather onaxis because of the implications of currently having a retroreflective screen. However, with many DLP PJs, your flexibility in this regard can be extremely limited, unlike with other techs.

I brought up the projector with my wife again and after explaining that I was getting strong advise to go that route, she didn't dismiss it outright. But, I would have to come up with a way to make it sufficiently inconspicuous. So, it's not out of the question. I have to say that the thought is appealing, but it would be just that much more work. I don't mind doing the work, but I have a tendency to become obsessed over projects, because I'm in a hurry to enjoy the end result. So, every little extra thing makes it that much longer to reach the end. Oh well...

Again, many thanks!

You're welcome. For the price of having a nice sleek piano black PJ way up at the ceiling, can you potentially hide a bunch of treatments, 3 speakers or more, as well as your 2 subs. Oh yeah, and possibly all of your components too. Yes, it's definitely more work, and your learning curve has just become way greater, but the rewards . . . well, you may never leave the basement again . . .


EDIT: crap man, looking at those pics makes me want to reconsider going 'scope. Oh gosh . . . . . lol

 

[GO-NAD!]

Right. Immediate thoughts/ideas: if say you're using bookshelves, you can have a framed thing(s) with black fabric horizontally below the screen. Sort of what rmk did for subs perhaps, but for you, you can have components across the entire front wall for instance. Or, you can have a stack in between two of the speakers. My URC RF200 was about $75, and my rack is directly behind viewers. Wait, that would be hard to load a BD, ok then, have it facing sideways, outwards, next to a speaker, with a cover, whether velcro, door, something, for easy access. I dunno man.

If I were to go with the false wall concept, what if there was a small "cutout" at the bottom centre, the same dimensions as a component stand, and everything else hidden behind the false wall and screen? Is that what you were suggesting? Hmmmmm, that wall is 10' 9"w x 7'h. In order to ensure maximum fexibility when deciding on the screen size, I wonder if it would be best to build a stand for a horizontal component orientation (as you suggested) and mount my subwoofers on top, behind the false wall. I'd probably need to use Grammas to reduce the possibility of shaking the snot out of the components though....

Of course, the screen size will hinge on the permitted seating distance. Bringing screen forward 2'+ will have an impact and likely reduce the the screensize proportionately.

What does conventional mean? (rhetoric.) Why couldn't you go with the "proper" size instead?

I meant forgoing the false wall and using a normal screen. But, this discussion has generated other ways to accomodate the false wall. I'm leaning more and more towards the projector now. A false wall would allow me to install bass traps in the corners and treatments on the front wall without encountering objections to their being visible. I need to get some treatment into that room becuse laminate is non-negotiable. I won't be able to put any carpet in, after pulling up the old stuff.

Instead of having the weave pattern be perfectly horizontal, the fixed frames have the pattern rotated. I believe, depending on the type (rolldown, fixed, etc), and the size, the rotation angle may vary, but Im guessing 20 deg for the most part. Some have even 35 deg I think. Again, it's only an issue with 3LCD PJs. But, by rotating, the chances of moire are reduced regardlesss.

Yes, I have some reading to do....

 

[GO-NAD!]

To all of you who have taken the time to offer advice - M Vanmeter, MDS, BMXTRIX and jostenmeat - thanks a bunch for your input! You've opened my eyes to the possibilities for this room.

On the other hand, I'm going to be so anxious to get this project underway, I'm going to start loosing sleep.... Then, I'll blame you guys!