Denon and Marantz could cease operations in 2025

[TLS Guy]

I have survived enough products disappearing to not worry such things. I'm pretty much set for life, audio wise, anyway, and can always DIY a power solution for good tunes. I have 3 amp kits worth of parts in my closet, yet. The next best thing cannot possibly be audibly better than where I have been thus far. My bedroom system doesn't even have subs, and I enjoy it as much as anything else. The band has been in the room (or better) with me for decades, regardless.

Once umbrella corporations became commonplace with food and everything else, brand names don't mean the same to me, nor loyalty, for that matter. Not as they once did. How many brand names are we going to really need to rebadge Icepower, ATI, Hypex and Purifi modules into?

I agree with that. Us DIYers are best positioned to having high quality sound whatever happens. Creative guys will always have a solution. Purely online shoppers may well get left out in the cold.

 

[Tankini]

I will translate that.

Mismimo's consumer audio business is up for sale.

We are putting the best face on this hoping to get the best price we can to sell it at less of a discount than we fear.
So essentially they have told us nothing we have not surmised in this thread.

The bottom line is that these brands will be sold to the highest bidder, and the rest is just "gloss" on the sales literature.

Doc!!! I'd say the same also. After all they don't want shareholders jumping ship. Getting stranded on a sinking ship is not a option when money's involved.

 

[highfigh]

My comment in the Focal wireless speaker review thread was why didn't they make the speakers gangable? Thus, the front speakers can be ganged together and only need to use 1 outlet. Dito for the rears.

New and newer houses have more power outlets than older houses to accommodate modern technology and appliances. Modern homes also have higher amperage electrical panels to facilitate this.

I also don't think passive speakers are going away any time soon. A simple solution utilizing the same concept is a multichannel amp(s) with the necessary built in wireless (BT or whatever) capabilities. What's cool is there are a lot more placement options.

We need to think outside the box and change our paradigms.

The added outlets is a bit ironic, since more energy-efficient & battery-powered devices are made available on a regular basis. The NEC is sometimes about selling parts more than actual need- AFCI breakers and outlets are hated by electricians, especially the early AFCI because they tripped just from turning on a small vacuum cleaner or other device with a motor that didn't draw much current, but they like the additional revenue from the more expensive parts. More outlets make a room more flexible, though- easier to reconfigure everything. Still, it's more expensive to build and if you haven't seen the new requirements, look into what they want WRT Romex- different colored jacket based on wire gauge, 14ga is no longer 'adequate' for 15A circuits and the price difference for the heavier wire gauge for typical circuits adds a LOT to the cost. Home Depot has a 25' package of 14/2 Romex, priced at $28!

Passive speakers will be available because there's no way anyone will outlaw typical amplifiers but for new system designs, placing the amplification closer to the speakers makes sense WRT signal loss/degradation, eliminating the need for heavy speaker wire over long distances and removing ALL amplifier channels from processor/preamp equipment. The days of a receiver becoming a boat anchor just because a speaker, shorted wire or unmitigated heat took out the amplifier and parts are expensive/hard to source will be gone.

 

[highfigh]

My point is that there is no such thing as a wireless speaker in a home theater scenario. You have to deal with speaker wires and/or power cords. Advertisements for most wirelessly connected speakers cleverly hide if not completely omit power cords from their images. Those not wanting to run speaker wires at all will still need to deal with power cords and will have to compromise speaker placement if power outlets aren't in optimal locations unless unsightly extension cords are used.. These issues can be tackled more easily in a newly constructed suburban home compared to an old house, mobile home or high rise apartment.

Concerning receivers themselves, they look like antiques compared to new Smart devices that have nothing but screen and a few vey small volume and power buttons on their edges. Touchscreens on AVRs do actually currently exist and would be more user friendly to anybody born in the twenty-first century than those featuring dated front displays.

T 778 - NAD Electronics

The T 778 features the latest developments in NAD’s Hybrid Digital technology to create 9 high current/high power channels of amplification.

nadelectronics.com

I'm amazed by every person who was surprised by me mentioning power for 'wireless' equipment. Once again, the marketing departments worked their magic and baffled the customers with BS. Expand that to the whole US market and it's obvious that millions of people are clueless and don't like to learn about this stuff.

 

[Trebdp83]

Apologies, I don’t recall you mentioning power for wireless equipment. I’ve looked at several ads for “wireless” speakers of various brands. Some may think them entirely wireless and be surprised at all of the power cords in the box.

 

[Tankini]

Apologies, I don’t recall you mentioning power for wireless equipment. I’ve looked at several ads for “wireless” speakers of various brands. Some may think them entirely wireless and be surprised at all of the power cords in the box.

Wonder if when the consumer opens the box and find a stick of juicy fruit gum? Or go..wait a minute this isn't wireless at All! Where are all my lithium batteries for my total wireless speakers.

 

[MrBoat]

I'm amazed by every person who was surprised by me mentioning power for 'wireless' equipment. Once again, the marketing departments worked their magic and baffled the customers with BS. Expand that to the whole US market and it's obvious that millions of people are clueless and don't like to learn about this stuff.

I don't mind learning about this stuff, but not each and every time I look away from it for a spell. The gains have not been so incrementally profound in which to warrant such constant in-depth research, troubleshooting and constant re-education. At least not for just wanting to listen to music. We have people now handwringing and getting anxiety over jitter in the furthest reaches of the negative db ranges and beyond the audible ranges of dogs and dolphins.

My old generic CD player from 1985 still knocks my socks off if I need it to, with a little coaxing. The learning curve for that was easier than a cassette player, in spite of the noticeable (and affordable) jump in SQ. RCA cables into the aux. Done. Only downside to that tech was that it wasn't born with a full library of material so some waiting was involved for awhile.

 

[MrBoat]

Wonder if when the consume opens the box and find a stick of juicy fruit gum? Or go..wait a minute this isn't wireless at All! Where are all my lithium batteries for my total wireless speakers.

And the power cord has box memory and doesn't lie as well as 12 gauge zip cord.

 

[gene]

You nailed it by describing how your kids consume media. I'm a drummer and been around the music business for the better part of my adult life. (Mostly as a hobbyist to help pass my time in the Navy.) The A/V industry will go the way of the horse and buggy. iPhones and Airpods are the equivalent of the automobile to anyone under 30. And teens and younger watch/listen to/create EVERYTHING with their phones now. You see it in every aspect of entertainment.

Generations now don't even take time to learn an instrument when they have access to GarageBand-like creation devices. Heck, drummers play 4 bars of time and cut/paste it into ProTools and Beat Detective to quantize everything. Then cut/paste verses and choruses. Singing and playing is now a matter of using Auto Tune and viola, instant hit. The few artists that can actually write and record their own instruments are all in their late 40s and 50s.

Sadly, the end is near but also the gear has never been better. Truly the golden age of high-fi and home theater. Don't wait to get that next version of anything cause this is it. Next up, large TVs. Invest in Apple and Google AI and their Vision Pro. Heads-up displays will be the norm before you know it.

It's really sad that most modern pop music doesn't even have a real drummer in it. Think of the 80s when we had Phil Collins doing great pop with innovative drumming. That seems to be all but gone in mainstream music.

 

[Tankini]

@gene or the way most of not all POP music is being recorded in studios. Multi track overlay where you think you might hear back up singers, but not quite sure. Yes nothing new with multilayer recording it was done with vinyl back in the days. Most (bands) found a sound (master recording engineer) that had the tools to work with. Those bands, used as an analogy, went (that's the sound We want on our LPs.) Gene, remember when electronic synthesizers came on to the scene in the early '70s? Bands started using electronic synthesizers, that trashed rock and roll for Ever!

 

[Tankini]

And the power cord has box memory and doesn't lie as well as 12 gauge zip cord.

Wait a minute fellow! When did (Zip cords lie)

 

[multisport4me]

It's really sad that most modern pop music doesn't even have a real drummer in it. Think of the 80s when we had Phil Collins doing great pop with innovative drumming. That seems to be all but gone in mainstream music.

My hope is that there will be another "Nirvana" moment that started the garage-band / lo-fi trend in the 90's that ended the overproduced dreadful glam/hair band pop music with just one guitarist/singer, one bass player, and one hell of a drummer. Then again...I've been waiting since the 2000's for another Nirvana moment and it still hasn't come. The Beatles transformed the music industry - Nirvana reset it - and nothing since has really changed the ProTools, un-original, sampling/riff-stealing, formulaic pop crap music all served up to you one song at at time using algorithms to present you with more and more of the same formulaic crap regurgitated over and over again.

...now let me tell you how I really feel about it. lol

 

[Eppie]

Modern music composition is a topic for a whole other thread although I wonder if that also ties into declining sales for HiFi? Rick Beato has some interesting videos on the topic, and while he naturally takes the perspective of an older music producer his analysis sounds pretty spot on to me. I found it particularly interesting that despite his years of experience his kids were better at spotting AI generated music.

 

[highfigh]

Apologies, I don’t recall you mentioning power for wireless equipment. I’ve looked at several ads for “wireless” speakers of various brands. Some may think them entirely wireless and be surprised at all of the power cords in the box.

I was referring to out in the wild, talking to customers and potential customers but posters on AH and other forums/discussions are surprised to find that 'wireless' devices still need power.

 

[highfigh]

I don't mind learning about this stuff, but not each and every time I look away from it for a spell. The gains have not been so incrementally profound in which to warrant such constant in-depth research, troubleshooting and constant re-education. At least not for just wanting to listen to music. We have people now handwringing and getting anxiety over jitter in the furthest reaches of the negative db ranges and beyond the audible ranges of dogs and dolphins.

My old generic CD player from 1985 still knocks my socks off if I need it to, with a little coaxing. The learning curve for that was easier than a cassette player, in spite of the noticeable (and affordable) jump in SQ. RCA cables into the aux. Done. Only downside to that tech was that it wasn't born with a full library of material so some waiting was involved for awhile.

The small changes have driven the AV market for decades. Do they REALLY make a big difference? Not usually. The marketing departments create buzz by way of their colorful wording, making consumers twitch at the mention of new or slightly better specs, different colors, blah, blah, blah.

 

[highfigh]

It's really sad that most modern pop music doesn't even have a real drummer in it. Think of the 80s when we had Phil Collins doing great pop with innovative drumming. That seems to be all but gone in mainstream music.

I have watched interviews with Collins and when asked about how he and his music were EVERYWHERE during that time, he often says "I get it- I was sick of me". OTOH, it was nice seeing one of our locals going along for that ride as a member of Collin's band/Genesis and as a co-writer with Collins.

With comments about music having zero cost by A-holes like the head of Spotify, why would anyone at the top of the music-writing and performing spectrum want to bother? There's no such thing as record sales as it existed in the past, touring is prohibitively expensive (look at ticket prices without 'convenience charges' and the music of the era you referred to was written by people, not AI. People had to gig for years to develop a fan base, not put videos on FB, YouTube and other social media outlets, with someone becoming famous while sitting on their ass at home.

If you know anyone in small bands, ask how many times a club owner told them "I can't pay you (much), but it will be good exposure".

That said, someone can make a good amount of money, but they have to work hard. I know someone who's pushing 60 and he has never played as often or toured as extensively as he is now. He developed a solid local/regional following in the '90s, then met people who worked for Fender Musical Instruments and other manufacturers- his version of 'Cause We've Ended As Lovers' was used for years by Fender when they put callers on hold. He did clinics for many brands around the US, Europe, Australia and Asia, makes a lot of YouTube videos and has written guitar instruction books for the largest music publisher on the planet and when asked how he was able to reach this level, his answer is "When they asked, I said Yes". He has signature models of guitars, pickups, effects and had amplifier models with his name, built to the way he would want, has manufacturer sponsors, still writes the instruction books and one of the best things- his son plays drums in his band and has for years. He'll be doing some gigs with the Allman-Betts Family Revival band and recently signed a deal with Devon Allman's label (Greg Allman's son).

Watch YouTube videos of the pre-2000 major music writers/players/stars and most say the same things- they can't do it the way they used to from the business side, but they're also in their 70s and into their 80s. The age doesn't seem to stop them from doing it, though- David Gilmour is touring, Townsend & Daltry, the Stones and others are still at it. At 79, I have to think Townsend thinks about his "Hope I die before I get old" line from 'My Generation' on a regular basis.

 

[isolar8001]

Modern music composition is a topic for a whole other thread although I wonder if that also ties into declining sales for HiFi? Rick Beato has some interesting videos on the topic, and while he naturally takes the perspective of an older music producer his analysis sounds pretty spot on to me. I found it particularly interesting that despite his years of experience his kids were better at spotting AI generated music.

Rick Beato is a pretty cool guy...usually spot on most subjects.
I was especially happy when he acknowledged one of my all time favorite songs. (Roland was better without Curt)

 

[gene]

@gene or the way most of not all POP music is being recorded in studios. Multi track overlay where you think you might hear back up singers, but not quite sure. Yes nothing new with multilayer recording it was done with vinyl back in the days. Most (bands) found a sound (master recording engineer) that had the tools to work with. Those bands, used as an analogy, went (that's the sound We want on our LPs.) Gene, remember when electronic synthesizers came on to the scene in the early '70s? Bands started using electronic synthesizers, that trashed rock and roll for Ever!

As a huge prog rock fan, and amateur piano player, i do like good synth and moog if tastefully done. It's why I prefer Tony Banks from Genesis over Keith Emerson from ELP despite Keith was the technically superior player. If it wasnt for these guys innovating on the 70s, bands like Depeche Mode and Radiohead wouldn't exist today, IMO.

 

[Matt34]

LOL - I'm actually a guitarist. But I can only agree with your curmudgeon theory to a point. I have four kids and can tell you they consume music and video very differently. Yea, they think my home theater and guitars are super cool but beyond being impressed for a moment, they go right back to listening to their Airpods and watching Tiktoks on their phones. An upgrade to them might be a BT speaker. Maybe. They consume everything in bytes (pun intended). There is a generational shift in how media is consumed and there is nothing "curmudgeony" about it - its a fact.

I can probably count on both hands how many movies my 16yr old has watch beginning to end. The only TV shows she watches is Big Brother and Survivor with my wife. Completely different consumption like you said.

 

[MrBoat]

I set up some good sounding speakers at my dining table with the little Bluetooth amp and told my son he could tune into it with his phone. I set up a couple pairs like this and he listened to it every day after work. I have found if you set it up where they spend some time anyway, they will use it. While he didn't offer much analysis to me, I heard him tell his buddy how good it sounded. It helps that his playlist has a lot of the classics from my era like James Taylor, Jim Croce, Hall & Oates, Elton John etc. Those speakers were out there for about 3 months. While I am sure it did not shift his listening habits, the seed has been planted, regardless.

I figure after I am gone, they will perhaps use these things that were treasures to me, to reconnect in some sense with our past. I have told them repeatedly it is worth doing. It won't be something difficult for them to set up, at any rate. Maybe then they will hear what I have or what kept me so glued to it all these years.