RBH SV-61R unpacking and initial impressions

William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Thanks guys!

On tap for tonight to see how it sounds with a full on Atmos soundtrack we have Aquaman and the Last Jedi. I'm not huge into either of the genres but am always down for some A/V delight. It's kinda like afternoon delight, just costs more and is less portable =]
Also can say is be carful with the sunfires. Aquaman is a BASS beast, and you could hurt them!!! Your probably tired of me bringing it up, and I know I’m out of turn here because it’s the wrong thread, BUT to your question about amps. I would rather see you spend the money on a sub/s. The 7013 is a very capable AVR, and while unloading the burden to an amp CAN be worthwhile, I think it’s sometimes overstated.
Just my .02.
 
sven1olaf

sven1olaf

Audioholic
Also can say is be carful with the sunfires. Aquaman is a BASS beast, and you could hurt them!!! Your probably tired of me bringing it up, and I know I’m out of turn here because it’s the wrong thread, BUT to your question about amps. I would rather see you spend the money on a sub/s. The 7013 is a very capable AVR, and while unloading the burden to an amp CAN be worthwhile, I think it’s sometimes overstated.
Just my .02.
William, I get it... I'm ordering x2 PC-4000's now (I wish!) :)

But to your point, you may be correct about putting the sub/s as a priority before looking for more power. My thinking is that the 61r's are rated to 200W and the 661r's are rated to 250W. I figure my 7013 is rated at 125W @ 2ch driven, so at the full 9 channels, or even 7 channels, I am far lower than 125, probably closer to the 50's. Without documentation on the total available power of each channel, there just is no way to know...but it can't be pretty, especially when pushed a little.

Anyway, believe me, at least x1 new sub will be had. I really want to get the 5 mains setup first because my Sunfires continue to show me their value.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Also, it might be time to look at getting an external amp in prep for rounding out the system with sv-661r's up front. I know a little about amps, but have never had a dedicated external for av before. Thinking x5 emotiva m- blocks, ATI 5 channel, Adcom 5 channel, or monolith 5 channel. There is significant cost variance between these options so any feedback is appreciated. Also need to look into rack versus console, AVR - amp cabling, amp power requirements, and accessories like power line conditioning, trigger signaling, how to calibrate with an amp in line.
If I remember correctly, those are pretty sensitive speakers... 90dB? IIRC??? Your AVR should handle that with aplomb. I'm inclined to agree with WL... your going to experience a significant boost to your experience with an upgrade to the Subs, moreso than what an Amp will bring to the table.
If you haven't already... consider checking an Online SPL Calculator to see what you might expect from your system... This may at least put into perspective where you'll be in terms of target SPL... and if not, you'll see what you need to add to get there. I will say, some proper woofage is a very, very nice thing. ;)
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Ok. I’ll stop. For now...

Aside from trying to enable your subwoofer-ness, IMO the 200/250 watt ratings are basically a melting point. People see this and think they’re in need of amps that deliver 200w rms when in reality you’re almost always using just a few watts. Ime, when you feel like you don’t have enough dynamic capability due to power, you will know. You just will. So to me, buying amps for academics is the cart be fore the horse.
Btw, glad to hear about your adventures. LOVE anew gear.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
are rated to 200W and the 661r's are rated to 250W. I figure my 7013 is rated at 125W @ 2ch driven, so at the full 9 channels, or even 7 channels, I am far lower than 125, probably closer to the 50's.
The power ratings are a bit of a folly... I went down that rabbit hole for a while, too. Adding 200w per channel isn't a bad thing (see my signature) but keep in mind that at 1 meter, you will only be utilizing 32w to achieve 105dB which is reference level peak for your mains. :)
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Agree with ryan too. Having huge amps is totally fine. I use a 250wpc pro amp on my mains. My point was, you’ll know, when you know. Lol
 
sven1olaf

sven1olaf

Audioholic
Great conversation guys!

The main takeaway I have is that I'll know when I need more power, and right now I don't hear it... so I'll wait on getting super hyper jiggy with the ACD wattage. :cool:

A new sub is a much easier undertaking anyway. But...dun dun dun...what do you guys think about running the x2 sunfires and another large boomer (say pc-4000 for the sake of argument)? It seems to me that the weakest link in the chain will be the sunfires, so is it beneficial to just remove them entirely from the LFE config? I don't want to have a this big, powerful beast sitting there shackled to the performance of x2 lesser subs. Anyway, that's where my head is at when thinking about subs right now.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Great conversation guys!

The main takeaway I have is that I'll know when I need more power, and right now I don't hear it... so I'll wait on getting super hyper jiggy with the ACD wattage. :cool:

A new sub is a much easier undertaking anyway. But...dun dun dun...what do you guys think about running the x2 sunfires and another large boomer (say pc-4000 for the sake of argument)? It seems to me that the weakest link in the chain will be the sunfires, so is it beneficial to just remove them entirely from the LFE config? I don't want to have a this big, powerful beast sitting there shackled to the performance of x2 lesser subs. Anyway, that's where my head is at when thinking about subs right now.
In terms of things i've read... when using multiple subs, you want matching. If not matching, you would need to employ something like the mDSP2x4 and REW to manage each sub to your advantage. Even then, it is tricky and requires some experience and care. This from some of our gurus that do exactly that. Even matching subs can be tricky to integrate. But worth it!
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Great conversation guys!

The main takeaway I have is that I'll know when I need more power, and right now I don't hear it... so I'll wait on getting super hyper jiggy with the ACD wattage. :cool:

A new sub is a much easier undertaking anyway. But...dun dun dun...what do you guys think about running the x2 sunfires and another large boomer (say pc-4000 for the sake of argument)? It seems to me that the weakest link in the chain will be the sunfires, so is it beneficial to just remove them entirely from the LFE config? I don't want to have a this big, powerful beast sitting there shackled to the performance of x2 lesser subs. Anyway, that's where my head is at when thinking about subs right now.
Yes you pretty much have that right. The one thing you MIGHT do is use the sunfires near field behind the couch. This is easier said than done and might cause more problems than it’s worth. But since you have them, after a while with the new ones it might be fun to try. Or save the trouble and just forego them.
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
my Sunfires continue to show me their value.
Your Sunfire HRS12 subs (MSRP $1,300 each, definitely not cheap) have a high-pass filter (subsonic filter) where you can filter out frequencies that you cannot actually hear (below 25Hz),right?

Are they also sealed (instead of ported)? Sealed subs are much less likely to bottom out or be damaged due to high levels of low frequencies (usually below 20Hz).

In this hobby it’s easy to be overzealous and overkill with amps and subs, among other things.

Those Sunfire are expensive subs and since they sound great, there is no reason to replace them. :D

IMO, it's usually better to have multiple subs than one big sub.
 
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Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Ha, yeah that just a silly closet under the stairs coming down, and is the reason for my nasty front staging. There is a load bearing column framed in right behind the speaker. The column braces a header that spans the gap left and right.

I hate that column right now!!!
Probably a good idea to leave the load bearing column alone :D
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
My thinking is that the 61r's are rated to 200W and the 661r's are rated to 250W. I figure my 7013 is rated at 125W @ 2ch driven, so at the full 9 channels, or even 7 channels, I am far lower than 125, probably closer to the 50's. Without documentation on the total available power of each channel, there just is no way to know...but it can't be pretty, especially when pushed a little.

Anyway, believe me, at least x1 new sub will be had. I really want to get the 5 mains setup first because my Sunfires continue to show me their value.
Your 61r's have a power rating of 200W and the 661r's are rated for 250W. Those are the respective maximum wattage which they will handle as peak power for a very short period before being damaged. Those ratings have nothing to do with the power they need to be driven for usual average SPL.

With regard to the ACD (All Channels Driven) performance of the SR7013, you shouldn't have to worry as Marantz guarantee 70% of the published power rating of 125W/ch when all channels are driven (125 X 70% = 87.5W). This represents less than 2dB inferior power to that of the 2 channel power rating:

https://www.us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVReceivers&SubCatId=0&ProductId=SR7013

At the bottom of the page, it is clearly printed: 70% Guatantee

If you wish to know how much power you need according to the sensitivity of your speakers, your listening distance from them, and the maximum SPL that you want to get, this will give you the answer:

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Should you decide to get external amplification, I would recommend the affordable Monolith amplifier.
 
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sven1olaf

sven1olaf

Audioholic
Your 61r's have a power rating of 200W and the 661r's are rated for 250W. Those are the respective maximum wattage which they will handle as peak power for a very short period before being damaged. Those ratings have nothing to do with the power they need to be driven for usual average SPL.

With regard to the ACD (All Channels Driven) performance of the SR7013, you shouldn't have to worry as Marantz guarantee 70% of the published power rating of 125W/ch when all channels are driven (125 X 70% = 87.5W). This represents less than 2dB inferior power to that of the 2 channel power rating:

https://www.us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVReceivers&SubCatId=0&ProductId=SR7013

At the bottom of the page, it is clearly printed: 70% Guatantee

If you wish to know how much power you need according to the sensitivity of your speakers, your listening distance from them, and the maximum SPL that you want to get, this will give you the answer:

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Should you decide to get external amplification, I would recommend the affordable Monolith amplifier.
Verdinut, great info!

I had no idea about the 70% guarantee. That makes me feel much better.

You guys never cease to impress.

If only I could use the team to fix my built in debacle
 
sven1olaf

sven1olaf

Audioholic
Your Sunfire HRS12 subs (MSRP $1,300 each, definitely not cheap) have a high-pass filter (subsonic filter) where you can filter out frequencies that you cannot actually hear (below 25Hz),right?

Are they also sealed (instead of ported)? Sealed subs are much less likely to bottom out or be damaged due to high levels of low frequencies (usually below 20Hz).

In this hobby it’s easy to be overzealous and overkill with amps and subs, among other things.

Those Sunfire are expensive subs and since they sound great, there is no reason to replace them. :D

IMO, it's usually better to have multiple subs than one big sub.
ADTG, I will have to check on a HPF on them. I know they have an gain, xover (LPF), and phase knob, but think that's it.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
ADTG, I will have to check on a HPF on them. I know they have an gain, xover (LPF), and phase knob, but think that's it.
HPF or Subsonic Filter is more important for ported subs anyway. Sealed subs aren't prone to bottoming out like ported subs.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Your 61r's have a power rating of 200W and the 661r's are rated for 250W. Those are the respective maximum wattage which they will handle as peak power for a very short period before being damaged. Those ratings have nothing to do with the power they need to be driven for usual average SPL.

With regard to the ACD (All Channels Driven) performance of the SR7013, you shouldn't have to worry as Marantz guarantee 70% of the published power rating of 125W/ch when all channels are driven (125 X 70% = 87.5W). This represents less than 2dB inferior power to that of the 2 channel power rating:

https://www.us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVReceivers&SubCatId=0&ProductId=SR7013

At the bottom of the page, it is clearly printed: 70% Guatantee

If you wish to know how much power you need according to the sensitivity of your speakers, your listening distance from them, and the maximum SPL that you want to get, this will give you the answer:

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Should you decide to get external amplification, I would recommend the affordable Monolith amplifier.
I'll just add that the 70% guarantee is for five channels only: https://www.marantz.co.uk/uk/support/pages/glossary.aspx
 
sven1olaf

sven1olaf

Audioholic
Bucket List: Custom Built House. :D
That's what I wanted to do for this one, but nooooo. She didn't want to wait, and we found an amazing house in an incredibly competitive market.

But yes, my next house will have at least one room built to my specs :cool:
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
HPF or Subsonic Filter is more important for ported subs anyway. Sealed subs aren't prone to bottoming out like ported subs.
True, but are definitely more prone to distortion when trying to get similar output
 
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