Quality outlet for dedicated 20 amp line?

M

mtrot

Full Audioholic
Thanks for the replies, can anyone comment on my question above about running one 20 amp line and one 15 amp line, as well as the question about phase? And the price estimate for the work? Thanks.
 
Speedskater

Speedskater

Audioholic Chief
Your electrician gave you a reasonable estimate.
Both circuits should be on the same leg/pole.
* * * * * * * * * * *
if it's romex rather than conduit specify:
real SouthWire brand Romex®
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I would run two 20amp circuits using proper 12/2 cable as specified by National Electric Code (NEC). The jump in cost is the copper only. There shouldn't really be a cost jump in the breakers or the outlets, at least not by much.

The BIG cost is running the wiring. If an estimate is off because of time actually needed for wiring, then you may get up-charged on the labor required.

If this is all new construction and you have open access, then you are getting hosed either way by a trade that... well, isn't my favorite.

You have 3 wires that need to land in the breaker box, times two cables. Just run 20amp circuits for both of them, and yes, put them on the same phase. Not sure how much room you have in your breaker box. There is no reason to go 20/15, just go with them both as 20amp circuits so you can have that added range later on if you happen to need it.

I always run 20amp circuits to my AV closet. I probably need to run a couple more.

I like that outlet. It is overkill, for sure. But, for under 30 bucks, it's a nice piece of gear that looks very well built and will appropriately pair with your Krell amplifier.

Be aware, that if you are thinking long term that you may do a lot more 'Krell' level amplification in your system, then run a third circuit.

The expensive part is running those wires! Not hooking them up. Takes me about 5 minutes to wire in a outlet, and I'm NOT an experienced electrician. Takes me about five minutes to land it on the circuit breaker as well. So, once I have the wire in place, stapled down, and in the box, it would take me 30 minutes total to do both ends for three circuits.

That second estimate seems much more in line if it includes running the 12/2 wiring.

Definitely check on the proper circuit breaker for your box and get one that is appropriate to your needs.
 
Speedskater

Speedskater

Audioholic Chief
That's 12AWG/2 + Safety Ground
The best NM (Non Metallic) cable is SouthWire brand Romex®
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
That's 12AWG/2 + Safety Ground
The best NM (Non Metallic) cable is SouthWire brand Romex®
I don't think I've ever used any other Romex. If you jump on either Home Depot's or Lowes' websites and search for Romex, it will come up with Southwire as their brand of choice right away. I suppose there are other manufacturers, but it's kind of like Monoprice.... why go elsewhere if it's quality stuff and priced competitively?

I always thought electrical wiring nomenclature was weird. 12/2 is actually three wires (hot/neutral/ground), while 12/3 is actually 4 wires (hot/return/neutral/ground)

Not sure I got the terms exactly right as it turns out... I'm still not an electrician. But, the last electrician I used couldn't figure out how to get the 4-way wiring working right in my home, so I just do it all myself. Way easier than figuring out this AV stuff! Just a tiny bit more dangerous.
 
M

mtrot

Full Audioholic
I don't think I've ever used any other Romex. If you jump on either Home Depot's or Lowes' websites and search for Romex, it will come up with Southwire as their brand of choice right away. I suppose there are other manufacturers, but it's kind of like Monoprice.... why go elsewhere if it's quality stuff and priced competitively?

I always thought electrical wiring nomenclature was weird. 12/2 is actually three wires (hot/neutral/ground), while 12/3 is actually 4 wires (hot/return/neutral/ground)

Not sure I got the terms exactly right as it turns out... I'm still not an electrician. But, the last electrician I used couldn't figure out how to get the 4-way wiring working right in my home, so I just do it all myself. Way easier than figuring out this AV stuff! Just a tiny bit more dangerous.
Yes, I see I can get 250 feet of Southwire 12/2 at Home Depot for $55.
 
Speedskater

Speedskater

Audioholic Chief
Yes, Southwire owns the name Romex®. But just like Kleenex®, it often refers to generic copies.
The generic is actually NM-B. I see that Home Depot only lists Southwire NM-B. That's good.
 
M

mtrot

Full Audioholic
Update:

Well, color me happy! I finally got two dedicated 20 amp lines run, during our recent kitchen remodel. No fancy breakers or outlets, just standard stuff that they ran. The new breaker has not any problem when I power on the Krell amp. The previous circuit had a lot of the lights and plugs in the kitchen area on it.

There is unquestionably an improvement in audio quality. The sound has more immediacy, and is more clear, and impactful. Transients such as drum shots are sharper and more defined. And high frequency sounds such as cymbals seem to sound more "real" and natural. And, no, it's not expectation or confirmation bias, lol. I'm always very skeptical about audio quality improvement from making changes or getting new equipment, because I don't want to be wasting money.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Update:

Well, color me happy! I finally got two dedicated 20 amp lines run, during our recent kitchen remodel. No fancy breakers or outlets, just standard stuff that they ran. The new breaker has not any problem when I power on the Krell amp. The previous circuit had a lot of the lights and plugs in the kitchen area on it.

There is unquestionably an improvement in audio quality. The sound has more immediacy, and is more clear, and impactful. Transients such as drum shots are sharper and more defined. And high frequency sounds such as cymbals seem to sound more "real" and natural. And, no, it's not expectation or confirmation bias, lol. I'm always very skeptical about audio quality improvement from making changes or getting new equipment, because I don't want to be wasting money.
Go to the store, find a 20A outlet and buy it.

These aren't designed to provide better sound, they're designed to conduct current and deliver power. Big difference. There's nothing that an outlet can do to improve the sound.
 
M

mtrot

Full Audioholic
Go to the store, find a 20A outlet and buy it.

These aren't designed to provide better sound, they're designed to conduct current and deliver power. Big difference. There's nothing that an outlet can do to improve the sound.
Not sure I understand your comment. They did install 20 amp outlets on the two lines.
 
Speedskater

Speedskater

Audioholic Chief
The only difference between a top shelf 15 & 20 Amp dual receptacle is the plastic cover plate. All the internal metal current carrying parts are the same.
If you don't have a 20 Amp plug, you don't need a 20 Amp receptacle.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
The only difference between a top shelf 15 & 20 Amp dual receptacle is the plastic cover plate. All the internal metal current carrying parts are the same.
If you don't have a 20 Amp plug, you don't need a 20 Amp receptacle.
IIRC, there is usually a tighter fit or grip with many of the "higher end" receptacles to make certain that whatever you are plugging in is not loose in any way. This is especially true of these labeled as Hospital grade... again IIRC. :)

I do agree that there is no magic component that alters the flow of electricity, though.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Not sure I understand your comment. They did install 20 amp outlets on the two lines.
Your thread title is "Quality outlet for dedicated 20 amp line?"- I read your last post, not the whole thread.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
IIRC, there is usually a tighter fit or grip with many of the "higher end" receptacles to make certain that whatever you are plugging in is not loose in any way. This is especially true of these labeled as Hospital grade... again IIRC. :)

I do agree that there is no magic component that alters the flow of electricity, though.
20A receptacles aren't supposed to be installed on 15A circuits. If something with a true 20A plug is connected, it could overload and overheat the circuit.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
What's not clear?

15A outlet and 15A plug
1653692583319.png 1653692788460.png
20A outlet and 20A plug
1653692659027.png 1653692729935.png

20A plug doesn't work in a 15A circuit unless someone installs the second type of outlet (which isn't dedicated to 20A use)- it can't fit into a 15A outlet. The only reason the second outlet can accept a 15A plug is for convenience- code doesn't allow using a higher amperage device in a lower amperage outlet/circuit.

Points for using the inverted ?, though.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
What's not clear?

15A outlet and 15A plug
View attachment 56306 View attachment 56309
20A outlet and 20A plug
View attachment 56307 View attachment 56308

20A plug doesn't work in a 15A circuit unless someone installs the second type of outlet (which isn't dedicated to 20A use)- it can't fit into a 15A outlet. The only reason the second outlet can accept a 15A plug is for convenience- code doesn't allow using a higher amperage device in a lower amperage outlet/circuit.

Points for using the inverted ?, though.
You quoted my post responding to a comment about what might be different between common household outlets, and more premium outlets. Nowhere did I discuss use of 15a or 20a outlets on lines other than what they are meant to be attached to.
That’s why I’m confused by your quoting me.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
You quoted my post responding to a comment about what might be different between common household outlets, and more premium outlets. Nowhere did I discuss use of 15a or 20a outlets on lines other than what they are meant to be attached to.
That’s why I’m confused by your quoting me.
I musta been havin' one o' my spells.....my mind clearly wanted to reply to mtrot after seeing the title, but my hands didn't want to play along.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
An interesting side note:
An ASR thread involved a guy swearing that his Studio 530 sounds different when he plugged in through the HF binding posts rather than the LF posts... He admitted to trying different setups including bi-something-ing them... and somehow decided that they sound "more present" plugged in through the HF...
Anyway, many have questioned his approach as you would expect.
I brought up the fact that it is likely that something was not seated or tightened properly when he started, which got rectified in his fooling around.
I was reminded of Gene testing his Kimber Cables with locking Bananas and also testing what happens when the bananas are loose. He very clearly demonstrated how the signal went from strong and clean to irregular.

At the same time, I found a nightlight we have that wasn't working properly and I gave it a little bump only to see it light up again. I pulled it out with virtually no resistance and plugged it back into the other outlet of that pair and it works fine.

Moral of the story is that Power Outlets (or ANY electrical connection) do matter insofar as the contact between conductors is strong and tight. A loose connection will suffer from poor performance. Household outlets can and will fail over time, especially with repeated use.

I would add that if OP's original lines were already taxed and perhaps had a failing wall outlet, he would quite possibly notice a problem in the performance of his Amp.
It is possible that the outlet or the line would be at fault. By changing to a dedicated line and new outlets, he now has as clean a pathway as his household electrical network can possibly provide.

Just thoughts as I wait for my morning Espressos (Espressi?) to fully engage.
1653841911192.png
 

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