Q Acoustics 3020 speakers -- My Insight

zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Thanks once again for the info Ziegl. Sounds like these may be keepers, no? The 3020's may be in trouble as you say. Really like the pics. I agree the XO looks to be 2nd order. The drivers look to be of excellent quality from what I can tell. Thanks!
Yes the QA seems to be in trouble - the Canton tends to sound more linear with more definition. Yes the drivers look good -- I just wish the whole cabinet was 3/4 inch thick -- however, they put the money where it counts
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Yes the QA seems to be in trouble - the Canton tends to sound more linear with more definition. Yes the drivers look good -- I just wish the whole cabinet was 3/4 inch thick -- however, they put the money where it counts
How would you compare the Cantons to the JBL 530's? One thing that I really liked about the 530's was the midrange. Bested many speakers even more expensive inmho. Just curious is all Ziegl. So, the cantons are going to be keepers? If so, then what is the plan w/the 3020's?


Cheers,

Phil
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
How would you compare the Cantons to the JBL 530's? One thing that I really liked about the 530's was the midrange. Bested many speakers even more expensive inmho. Just curious is all Ziegl. So, the cantons are going to be keepers? If so, then what is the plan w/the 3020's?
Except for the bass -- the Canton GLS 2 and JBL Studio 530 are close -- the 530 has more bass

Unless things change, the QA 3020 are headed back to Atlanta
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
I am starting to like the Canton GLS more and more -- I inquired about doing an exchange and paying the difference for the Chrono 502.2 -- however AC4L sent a message back stating that the only difference is the box which includes the grill difference. So, for me I save $60 going with the GLS.

More about the sound later -- while the QA 3020 is really nice and a leader for its price -- the GLS 2 is a better overall sounding speaker.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
So I gather the Al tweeter is well executed - no audible breakup harshness?

How do you think it compares against the MB Quart? Totally different class or close?
 
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zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
So I gather the Al tweeter is well executed - no audible breakup harshness?

How do you think it compares against the MB Quart? Totally different class or close?
The tweeter is nice -- no real annoyance to my years

The MB Quart Vera O5 speaker is clearly better, and is in a different class
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I am starting to like the Canton GLS more and more -- I inquired about doing an exchange and paying the difference for the Chrono 502.2 -- however AC4L sent a message back stating that the only difference is the box which includes the grill difference. So, for me I save $60 going with the GLS.
The obvious difference in the spec's is the weight - 10 lbs for GLS vs 12.5 lbs for the Chrono.
That might be the difference between 1/2" and 3/4" mdf!?
Of course as good as they seem to sound, the thin walls must not make too big of a difference. Having heard Dennis Murphy's "1/4 pounder speakers" I can attest that thin walls are not necessarily a cause of alarm. But I do think he made a good call to not produce those. They just felt cheap! I suspect he would have seen extra returns just because of the weight.
Canton may have just decided to add weight to give the speaker a more premium feel since the Chrono costs more. That and the shiny rings around the drivers.
 
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zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
The obvious difference in the spec's is the weight - 10 lbs for GLS vs 12.5 lbs for the Chrono.
That might be the difference between 1/2" and 3/4" mdf!?
Of course as good as they seem to sound, the thin walls must not make too big of a difference (having heard Dennis Murphy's "1/4 pounder speakers" I can attest that thin walls are not necessarily a cause of alarm).
They may have just decided to add weight to give the spaker a more premium feel since the Chronos costs more. That and the shiny rings around the drivers.
The Chrono is 1.4 inches deeper -- The GLS has a 3/4 inch front baffle, all the corners are sealed, and the thick dampening helps -- I prefer better drivers with a good crossover, over a speaker with a stronger cabinet, that has compromised on the drivers and crossover network. I can always tweak the side and back cabinet wall.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
The obvious difference in the spec's is the weight - 10 lbs for GLS vs 12.5 lbs for the Chrono.
Stereo.de measured a Canton 502 Chrono speaker -- however, I do not know the octave smoothing.

 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
That looks pretty farging flat.
I would still want to see its dispersion characteristics before knowing how it will sound. If it only has that response at one precise laser beam of an angle, it can still sound lousy. And that impedance graph is brutal- you will need a serious amp to run those things.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I would still want to see its dispersion characteristics before knowing how it will sound. If it only has that response at one precise laser beam of an angle, it can still sound lousy. And that impedance graph is brutal- you will need a serious amp to run those things.
Okay, so if I'm reading it correctly it looks like the impedance drops to 2 ohms at 50hz and again between 200 and 350hz or so? Does that make it a 2 ohm speaker?
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Okay, so if I'm reading it correctly it looks like the impedance drops to 2 ohms at 50hz and again between 200 and 350hz or so? Does that make it a 2 ohm speaker?
I probably wouldn't call it a 2 ohm speaker, because most of its range has more resistance than that, but it does spend a good chunk of the upper bass frequency at 2 ohms. I think it would almost be fair to say this is a 3 ohm speaker, if you wanted to reduce its impedance to a single number. That is such a harsh load that I have to wonder if the impedance curve has been anchored to the graph scale correctly.
 
D

Dennis Murphy

Audioholic General
I would still want to see its dispersion characteristics before knowing how it will sound. If it only has that response at one precise laser beam of an angle, it can still sound lousy. And that impedance graph is brutal- you will need a serious amp to run those things.
Enjoy the Music got a minimum of 4 ohms on their impedance test. That seems more reasonable. They didn't publish a FR measurement.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Enjoy the Music got a minimum of 4 ohms on their impedance test. That seems more reasonable. They didn't publish a FR measurement.
Thanks for the heads-up. I just looked that up, and Enjoy the Music looks like a lot more plausible impedance graph:

It looks like Stereo.de mistakenly shifted the curve down by 2 ohms, because I can't believe a major manufacturer would release a conventional bookshelf speaker with such an nasty impedance profile.
 
D

Dennis Murphy

Audioholic General
Thanks for the heads-up. I just looked that up, and Enjoy the Music looks like a lot more plausible impedance graph:

It looks like Stereo.de mistakenly shifted the curve down by 2 ohms, because I can't believe a major manufacturer would release a conventional bookshelf speaker with such an nasty impedance profile.
Right. It's virtually impossible to get that low an impedance on a 2-way even if the woofer starts out at 4 ohms, which is apparently the case for the Canton woof. You run into trouble in the 200 - 400 Hz range much more frequently on 3-ways, where you're crossing the woofer much lower.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
I would still want to see its dispersion characteristics before knowing how it will sound. If it only has that response at one precise laser beam of an angle, it can still sound lousy. And that impedance graph is brutal- you will need a serious amp to run those things.
The GLS 2 with the Chrono drivers does not sound bad or harsh to me, and they are not really hard to drive and the off-axis and overall response is good to my ears -- while measurements are good and useful, my ears are the final take for overall sound. Who knows, I just may send these to Dennis to be measured -- since I am in Tennessee, the round trip should not hit me too hard.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
This is my more detailed take on the Canton, which was my quest to find a new reference speaker for me -- the Snell K7 is still my favorite in-house speaker. The QA 3020 while really nice was not enough for me, as I wanted more. I do not have golden ears like a Dennis Murphy, however to my silver ears,:) they pass the test.

While Canton claims that the GLS 2 will hit 33 hz -- they will not do that
-- the Canton does have some nice strong articulate tight and controlled bass for its size -- it seems to have usable bass to around 50 hz -- and can work well for many full range who are not a die-hard bass-head every minute of the day.


The speaker sounds overall clean and linear -- however not as refined or pure as some more expensive high-end speakers. They are not really bright, warm, or dark sounding. They are vivid and detailed with some really nice resolution for definition, and depth, without sounding analytical. A poor sourced nasty recording track, will stand out and can get under your skin.

Playing the Beatles 'Come Together' -- the bass really stood out and was nice -- the voices were clean and detailed considering the recording is old. The same for the song 'Something' -- nice and detailed with good musical bass and definition, and a wide soundstage. The Temptations 'Papa Was A Rolling Stone' was clear and articulate with good sounstage and depth -- instruments sound clear and focused and the GLS 2 retrieved good detail and nuances. On the QA 3020 the sound is more closed in, with less layering and depth. The sound is more realistic on the GLS 2

With Rebecca Pidgeon's 'Spanish Harlem' -- Bass is tight and articulate with some depth, and is more full and rich compared to the QA -- her voice also has more tonal depth on the GLS. The same goes for Patricia Barber's 'The Beat Goes On'. Sade's 'No Ordinary Love' -- her voice is more rich and detailed, instruments more vivid and clear, the GLS is good at retrieving inner detail. The Canton has better layering and depth, and tone control. Sibilants are overall more controlled on the GLS speaker. The QA seems to have a happy bump in the midrange, while the GLS is more linear.

Chris Botti on the instrument version of 'No Ordinary Love' -- the sound is more detailed and focused with better detail and depth, and background voices more clear and cymbals more smooth. On Yo Yo Ma's 'The Mission' -- again the stage is more open, focused, and better depth. On Jamie Paul's 'Crazy' the center stage is more focused, while still giving a good wide stage, again the voice is more rich and fluid on the Canton.

With the GLS 2, I am starting to hear some of the vibration of the string wood instruments, that I have been missing on the QA 3020 and others. Some of the musical nuances that have been missing on the QA can now be heard on the Canton. The Canton goes a little lower in the bass over the QA, and is more rich and full, the bass on the QA seems to choke some and run out of steam.

Both speakers are good with Movies/TV -- however, the GLS 2 is more open and detailed with good dynamics without being upfront -- while the QA does have a good stage with a central image and some depth -- the GLS 2 does a better job.

The Canton is going for $299 with $8.99 shipping at AC4L and there are a few left -- however their return policy is not as friendly as others -- however, worth it to me, sometimes you have to take risks for something that can be really good. Now is the Canton great and perfect -- no. However they are one of the better under $800 speakers that I have listened to. The sound tends to be between the $400 and $650 range. However, for $299 a killer deal. The center would be the Canton Chrono center, which I did not buy at this time. I may or may not test another speaker against the Canton -- so for now they are a keeper for me.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
The GLS 2 with the Chrono drivers does not sound bad or harsh to me, and they are not really hard to drive and the off-axis and overall response is good to my ears -- while measurements are good and useful, my ears are the final take for overall sound. Who knows, I just may send these to Dennis to be measured -- since I am in Tennessee, the round trip should not hit me too hard.
I think with all the speakers you cycle through, you should develop a way to measure them yourself. If you had taken measurements of all the speakers you have been through, you would have had a very nice data set by now. It's not too late to start, and you don't need an expensive microphone to get a good response. If you were to take a trip to Dennis' place, it should be for him to show you how to get a good measurement.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
I think with all the speakers you cycle through, you should develop a way to measure them yourself. If you had taken measurements of all the speakers you have been through, you would have had a very nice data set by now. It's not too late to start, and you don't need an expensive microphone to get a good response. If you were to take a trip to Dennis' place, it should be for him to show you how to get a good measurement.
If a speaker really annoys me -- it leaves the house -- and measurements tend to show that.

I will not take a trip, I will mail the speakers to him -- I may, might pick up some measuring tricks, tips -- however my ears are the final judge on overall sound for me. There can be some decent nice measuring speakers out there, but still have limited overall resolution and sound bland. All in all, some people who love audio, and in the pass were not really concerned about measurements; still seemed to enjoy the speakers before seeing measurements -- and some have enjoyed and liked their speakers, even when they did not measure perfect after the fact.:) Some just will not confirm it.

I for one overall still prefer a more linear sound, but with drivers that have good resolution.
 
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