ProJect Turntable Possible Tonearm Issues

[Squishman]

The tonearm on my Project Debut Carbon Evo seems to be not the greatest. It skids way more than I'd like. When you put it down, it skids into the music rather than land in the outer dead wax. Sure that can happen, but I think it's way too often. Now today, I pulled the cue and it didn't land on the record at all. Floated above! I double checked my weight. I don't have a scale, but zeroed it out to balance it then set it back to 18g. Another thing I don't like is when you do that, the hanging weight pulls the tonearm against the holder so it's a little hard to get a perfect balance. I have to tap it free to see if it is indeed balanced. Do I need to fork over some cash for a better turntable? Not going to happen yet... just planning ahead.

 

[Squishman]

I wonder what I'd have to spend for an upgrade. I'd keep my Ortofon Blue, unless I upgrade to the Black with a new tt.
Anyone have a recommendation of a tt hopefully under $1500 with a more precision tonearm?

 

[TLS Guy]

I wonder what I'd have to spend for an upgrade. I'd keep my Ortofon Blue, unless I upgrade to the Black with a new tt.
Anyone have a recommendation of a tt hopefully under $1500 with a more precision tonearm?

I have a feeling I need to give you a lesson in setting up a turntable. It is a skill and an art. One thing I suspect is that your turntable is not level. Before you do anything else a turntable must be perfectly level. Otherwise everything else is pretty much a waste of time.

I also have a feeling the stylus overhang may not be correct. Properly setting up a turntable is an exacting art. I find most owners do not come close to optimizing their turntables. Small errors downgrade performance significantly. They are very unforgiving beasts. So you need to optimize what you have before buying anything else.
Significantly upgrading what you have will cost you a lot of money. Turntables are analog, and unlike the digital world increased performance does not some cheap. The reason is that they require precision engineering and that is costly. When it comes to turntables the best of years gone by tend to be the best. That is why good vintage turntables command such stratospheric prices.

 

[Squishman]

I have a feeling I need to give you a lesson in setting up a turntable. It is a skill and an art. One thing I suspect is that your turntable is not level. Before you do anything else a turntable must be perfectly level. Otherwise everything else is pretty much a waste of time.

I also have a feeling the stylus overhang may not be correct. Properly setting up a turntable is an exacting art. I find most owners do not come close to optimizing their turntables. Small errors downgrade performance significantly. They are very unforgiving beasts. So you need to optimize what you have before buying anything else.
Significantly upgrading what you have will cost you a lot of money. Turntables are analog, and unlike the digital world increased performance does not some cheap. The reason is that they require precision engineering and that is costly. When it comes to turntables the best of years gone by tend to be the best. That is why good vintage turntables command such stratospheric prices.

That'd be good. I did use a level in about 3 spots. But it is possible that the set-up is lacking somehow.

 

[Eppie]

The cartridge is factory installed so the overhang should be correct unless you replaced it. If the arm was hovering after you lowered the cueing lever then the balance was off, which normally should never happen. 1.8 grams sounds about right for the Ortofon Blue. If memory serves correct, each groove for the counter weight wire is for 1 gram of weight, so about 2 grams means the wire goes on the second groove. The Project Carbon EVO has a decent tone arm. I think the setup is just off.

 

[Squishman]

I did install the cart. It came with a Ranier cart I had no interest in keeping since I had the OBlue. I installed it what I thought was correct or straight. I didn't know it was rocket surgery. Looking forward to Mark checking it out for me.
I did not change the weight. Never have really. But yesterday, I double checked anyway.
And yes, the string hangs from the second groove. I wonder if I have had issues with the tonearm rest as you cue it down. In fact... I just thought of this right now as we speak: My tt is near a window and it was below zero most of the day. I do not know if there is fluid in the mechanism or not. This has happened several times in the last couple years, but I do not recall if it was in the winter time.
Glad to know that this turntable has a descent tonearm!
Btw, when you zero yours out, do you have trouble getting a clean balance since it knocks back to the holder?

 

[highfigh]

That'd be good. I did use a level in about 3 spots. But it is possible that the set-up is lacking somehow.

They don't ship these with a level? Go to Home Depot and look for a Kapro Bull's eye level. It's $3.14

 

[Mikado463]

I'm in agreement with Doc, somehow your set-up has gotten knocked out of kilter. For starters, buy yourself a scale, even a cheap beam one. Also, there are plenty of YouTube videos out there to help you with proper set-up.

 

[Squishman]

They don't ship these with a level? Go to Home Depot and look for a Kapro Bull's eye level. It's $3.14

They may have. I can't remember. I may have one.
edit: I do not have one, but I just checked with a regular level in about 6 or 7 spots. The plinth is plumb.

 

[Mikado463]

I did install the cart. It came with a Ranier cart I had no interest in keeping since I had the OBlue. I installed it what I thought was correct or straight. I didn't know it was rocket surgery. Looking forward to Mark checking it out for me.
I did not change the weight. Never have really. But yesterday, I double checked anyway.
And yes, the string hangs from the second groove. I wonder if I have had issues with the tonearm rest as you cue it down. In fact... I just thought of this right now as we speak: My tt is near a window and it was below zero most of the day. I do not know if there is fluid in the mechanism or not. This has happened several times in the last couple years, but I do not recall if it was in the winter time.
Glad to know that this turntable has a descent tonearm!
Btw, when you zero yours out, do you have trouble getting a clean balance since it knocks back to the holder?

why would it 'knock back to the holder ' ?

 

[highfigh]

I did install the cart. It came with a Ranier cart I had no interest in keeping since I had the OBlue. I installed it what I thought was correct or straight. I didn't know it was rocket surgery. Looking forward to Mark checking it out for me.
I did not change the weight. Never have really. But yesterday, I double checked anyway.
And yes, the string hangs from the second groove. I wonder if I have had issues with the tonearm rest as you cue it down. In fact... I just thought of this right now as we speak: My tt is near a window and it was below zero most of the day. I do not know if there is fluid in the mechanism or not. This has happened several times in the last couple years, but I do not recall if it was in the winter time.
Glad to know that this turntable has a descent tonearm!
Btw, when you zero yours out, do you have trouble getting a clean balance since it knocks back to the holder?

You HAVE TO set the tracking weight- there's no reason to assume that all cartridges have the same mass.

If you haven't done it before:

Start by not thinking about the number on the weight and the mark for setting it. Take the string for the anti-skating weight off.

Be very careful, to prevent the tonearm from swinging and make sure to place an LP on the platter. If you have a way to eliminate static electricity, use it- static can skew the tracking force.

Raise the cuing arm and rotate the weight until the tonearm floats at the end, then rotate in the opposite direction until it just starts to sink.

Lower the cuing arm- the tonearm should float, neutrally, being careful to not let it fall hard. Once you find the balance point that lets the tonearm float horizontally, carefully move it to its rest and lock it down.

Rotate the ring that shows the tracking force, but make sure the weight doesn't rotate or move at all.

Put the anti-skate weight on the tonearm- if the rod for the loop on the string has grooves, read the manual for instructions, in case they have a definite relationship to the tracking weight.

 

[Squishman]

why would it 'knock back to the holder ' ?

I do not know.

 

[Squishman]

You HAVE TO set the tracking weight- there's no reason to assume that all cartridges have the same mass.

If you haven't done it before:

Start by not thinking about the number on the weight and the mark for setting it. Take the string for the anti-skating weight off.

Be very careful, to prevent the tonearm from swinging and make sure to place an LP on the platter. If you have a way to eliminate static electricity, use it- static can skew the tracking force.

Raise the cuing arm and rotate the weight until the tonearm floats at the end, then rotate in the opposite direction until it just starts to sink.

Lower the cuing arm- the tonearm should float, neutrally, being careful to not let it fall hard. Once you find the balance point that lets the tonearm float horizontally, carefully move it to its rest and lock it down.

Rotate the ring that shows the tracking force, but make sure the weight doesn't rotate or move at all.

Put the anti-skate weight on the tonearm- if the rod for the loop on the string has grooves, read the manual for instructions, in case they have a definite relationship to the tracking weight.

No. No. No. I set the tracking weight of course! I am saying after it was set. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.
I know how to set the weight.

 

[highfigh]

They may have. I can't remember. I may have one.
edit: I do not have one, but I just checked with a regular level in about 6 or 7 spots. The plinth is plumb.

That's good, but I would use a bull's eye, especially if you can place it directly over the spindle.

 

[Mikado463]

No. No. No. I set the tracking weight of course! I am saying after it was set. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.
I know how to set the weight.

Really ?? how did you do that without a scale ?

 

[highfigh]

I do not know.

Did you leave the weight at the balance point (this is called 'zero balance')? You need to rotate the weight to the recommended range of weight (mass, actually) in order for the tonearm to even rest on the LP. If you don't, the anti-skate weight will yank the tonearm to the outside and it could damage the stylus because the downward force prevents it.

 

[highfigh]

Really ?? how did you do that without a scale ?

The scale on the weight is good for this- if they actually used math to calculate the thread pitch vs change in tracking weight, it should be fine. The change just from static electricity alone can add >1/4 gram if it's strong enough.

 

[Squishman]

The scale on the weight is good for this- if they actually used math to calculate the thread pitch vs change in tracking weight, it should be fine. The change just from static electricity alone can add >1/4 gram if it's strong enough.

I've never needed a scale. Even if it knocks lightly back, I can tell when it's at zero. Zero out the number ring then turn it to your required weight.

 

[Mikado463]

The scale on the weight is good for this- if they actually used math to calculate the thread pitch vs change in tracking weight, it should be fine. The change just from static electricity alone can add >1/4 gram if it's strong enough.

while I agree in what you said, in my world, good enough doesn't cut it. IMO being anal with regard to TT set-up is paramount to performance.

 

[TLS Guy]

I will take my turntable tools over this weekend and sort this out. He lives just south of me. That turntable should work just fine for him.