Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
If you can tamp down that peak at around 62 hz I'd say you're looking pretty good!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
The MA Silver 300 and SVS Ultra Towers are both very good speakers, but 50 Hz crossover is too low. Try 80 Hz and 90 Hz for better integration between the speakers and the subwoofer. Anything lower you are going to end up with potentially poor results due to those low bass capable speakers interacting with the subwoofer in a bad way.
Yeah I can see that, but you seem to think he doesn't need a power amp. While I can agree to that, but based on the info he has provided so far and having seem the measurements of the MA Silver 300 and Ultra Tower, I am of the opinion that he can benefit from a 200W/300 W power amp. I assume the Silver 300 and Ultra Tower are for two separate systems, but I am confused, just got back from the Pfizer shot lol..
 
D

Dreamweaverx5000

Audioholic
I have both speakers. I liked the Monitor audio. thats all im working with. been trying to sell the Ultra towers.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
He's actually working with us Peng. Kinda refreshing actually. So far he's been open to advice and is moving his sub all over the room and taking sweeps for me!
It is very refreshing indeed! Lots of folks would come and ask questions but they actually had their mind made up, just wanted to hear us agreeing with them.:D
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Yeah I can see that, but you seem to think he doesn't need a power amp. While I can agree to that, but based on the info he has provided so far and having seem the measurements of the MA Silver 300 and Ultra Tower, I am of the opinion that he can benefit from a 200W/300 W power amp. I assume the Silver 300 and Ultra Tower are for two separate systems, but I am confused, just got back from the Pfizer shot lol..
He used to own Ultra towers and has the MA Silvers now. Based on his sweeps he has (had) some issues with a deep null at 55 hz.

You might be right about an amp, but I think we're getting his bass straightened out and I'll bet it's gonna sound better. What he's describing kinda lines up with his first few sweeps. Plus that low crossover.
 
D

Dreamweaverx5000

Audioholic
im open to anything I can afford to fix it. I certainly don't assume to know stuff about this. its been a learning experience from about a year.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
It is very refreshing indeed! Lots of folks would come and ask questions but they actually had their mind made up, just wanted to hear us agreeing with them.:D
Yup. Totally agree. That's why I'm still hanging in there with him. Otherwise Ida given up 3 pages ago, lol.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
im open to anything I can afford to fix it. I certainly don't assume to know stuff about this. its been a learning experience from about a year.
It's still a learning experience for me too, lol.

I know you were getting frustrated and things were almost a little confusing, but I appreciate your attitude and willingness to work with us.
 
D

Dreamweaverx5000

Audioholic
I appreciate it more I promise. Gonna take a break from for now. Laptop died anyways. I’ll let you know what happens when I get back on it again.
Thanks again
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
I appreciate it more I promise. Gonna take a break from for now. Laptop died anyways. I’ll let you know what happens when I get back on it again.
Thanks again
Just hang in there and don't give up. I think you made some good improvements today and owe yourself a pat on the back. Take a break and do some homework when you recharge a little. Knowledge is power with this stuff.

Kick back, put some music on and listen critically for a while and see if you can detect the improvements. Play with sub trim a little bit and stay with that 80 hz crossover. Give it a little time. Sometimes I don't think I hear any improvements or think it's worse after fighting with it all afternoon because I'm tired and cranky.
 
D

Dreamweaverx5000

Audioholic
How do I determine phase on the subs? It’s 180 at the moment. I noticed going from 0 to 180 my nulls moved horizontally. About 10 MHz. Should I test something to get them In phase before continuing testing? I always noticed more volume at 180 than 0 if that matters.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
How do I determine phase on the subs? It’s 180 at the moment. I noticed going from 0 to 180 my nulls moved horizontally. About 10 MHz. Should I test something to get them In phase before continuing testing? I always noticed more volume at 180 than 0 if that matters.
I just took a quick look of many posts I missed yesterday and I am not sure if your subwoofer is setup right (Ii mean the electronic settings). Before I say anything though I would like to know the model number so I can read the manual first.

Did you say you were using an Onkyo AVR 390, is it the HT-R390? If it is, did you run Audyssey?
Also, what is the maximum volume setting for the unit, "70" doesn't mean much without knowing the range.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Not if they're operating within spec, designed and built competently. Here, check this out. I punched in 5 watts and your speaker's sensitivity. You're hitting 90 dB with only 5 watts!

View attachment 46572
That is 87.3 dB per speaker, so by THX standard, it would be 17.7 dB below reference level. Still loud enough for me, but for those who wants just 5 dB below reference that is quite reasonable, 95 W will be needed. All these are based on "peaks". The average power required would obviously be far below 5 W, more like 0.5 W most of the time.

If the AVR is rated 100 W into 8 Ohms, it would still be adequate but would not have much reserve on hand at all. With crossover set to 100 to 110 Hz would help, but if set to 50 Hz, those nice MA Silver may sound thin especially if the sub isn't dial in properly.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
That is 87.3 dB per speaker, so by THX standard, it would be 17.7 dB below reference level. Still loud enough for me, but for those who wants just 5 dB below reference that is quite reasonable, 95 W will be needed. All these are based on "peaks". The average power required would obviously be far below 5 W, more like 0.5 W most of the time.

If the AVR is rated 100 W into 8 Ohms, it would still be adequate but would not have much reserve on hand at all. With crossover set to 100 to 110 Hz would help, but if set to 50 Hz, those nice MA Silver may sound thin especially if the sub isn't dial in properly.
90.7 with 2 speakers tho, right?

Honestly, it wouldn't be enough for me, now that I've had some time to think about it. I like it loud and so does op. So I'm with you peng. A new amp isn't out of the question. However, I think the problems he's describing lines up with the null we discovered and he has some room for improvement there for sure too.
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
90.7 with 2 speakers tho, right?

Honestly, it wouldn't be enough for me, now that I've had some time to think about it. I like it loud and so does op. So I'm with you peng. A new amp isn't out of the question. However, I think the problems he's describing lines up with the null we discovered and he has some room for improvement there for sure too.
Yes, that's why I qualified 87.3 by referring to THX standard, that is based on 1 speaker. The whole confusion about how much power I need thing is due to the complicated matter of having to consider average spl vs peak spl, 1 speaker vs more, the effects of impedance other than 8 ohms on sensitivity that online calculators are based on, THX standard vs no, assume room gain or not, and of course distance, subwoofer Y/N, crossover settings etc. Unless the OP has provided all the relevant information, it would be better for us to be on the super conservative side, but then it may become meaningless quickly once the speaker's power handling specs and/or manufacturer's recommended power are factored in. The fact that it needs 2X the power output of an amp to gain just 3 dB further confused the issue.
 
D

Dreamweaverx5000

Audioholic
You asked about sub setup specs.
It’s 2 Rhythmik F12 PEQ3 . Connected at speaker level. Accuq is what Onkyo uses. I don’t like the sound of the LFE. I did run Accuq but it doesn’t do anything noticeable with only 2 speakers. And I run direct mode normally anyways as it usually sounds cleaner but more neutral.
i most concerned about music. I really don’t notice sound problems on TV, but listening to music, I can hear when something isn’t right.
Running LFE I can hear the sub start and stop as if the Onkyo decided when it should send bass data to the subs and sends nothing when it decides the bass isn’t needed. So it seems like it doesn’t play all the musical sounds it should. But this is a sub 300 AVR, maybe better ones have better bass management for music via LFE.
So I I guess I’m trying to set these subs up manually and with REW without bass management.

I’m NOT assuming this is correct. But LFE really sounds dull to me for music. Is that crazy.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
You asked about sub setup specs.
It’s 2 Rhythmik F12 PEQ3 . Connected at speaker level. Accuq is what Onkyo uses. I don’t like the sound of the LFE. I did run Accuq but it doesn’t do anything noticeable with only 2 speakers. And I run direct mode normally anyways as it usually sounds cleaner but more neutral.
i most concerned about music. I really don’t notice sound problems on TV, but listening to music, I can hear when something isn’t right.
Running LFE I can hear the sub start and stop as if the Onkyo decided when it should send bass data to the subs and sends nothing when it decides the bass isn’t needed. So it seems like it doesn’t play all the musical sounds it should. But this is a sub 300 AVR, maybe better ones have better bass management for music via LFE.
So I I guess I’m trying to set these subs up manually and with REW without bass management.

I’m NOT assuming this is correct. But LFE really sounds dull to me for music. Is that crazy.
I use LFE and think it sounds great for music, but I use a higher crossover than you and put a lot of work into a flat frequency response. I would say you're doing it the hard way.
 
D

Dreamweaverx5000

Audioholic
well I have changed the crossover since yesterday before opening rew. It’s set to 120 on the hard switch and 120 on the dial since then. It definitely add power many parts of the music.
im sure I’ll try LFE again while I’m testing stuff as well.
i had forgot about the hard switches at first and was set at 80 (50,80,AV120 options) so at first when I started running rew the above 120 dial settings where not actually doing anything.
Iv done some testing today. Moving subs around. Other than the null at 50-60, nothing sounds better than having the subs on right and left of my LP. (Make adjusting easy, lol)
It a little fatiguing and buzzing in the skull. But the sound appears to come from the center image by far better in this position. I’m waiting on longer cables to help move things around some tho.
These subs have dampening Low,med,high.
seems like low is best.
These subs have 14/28/20 excursions toggle. It’s barely noticeable at any setting. But I’m running 14 now. Was on 28. Since the subs moved next to the chair the sub-20s are not causing as much house noise from shaking (or I cannot hear it now anyways)
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
So I I guess I’m trying to set these subs up manually and with REW without bass management.
You are SO doing the the hard way, lol. I would never consider not using bass management. It's hard to say what it is you didn't like about it because you do have multiple issues going on. From running your subs hot to compensate for a null, the null itself and lack of bass management it's no surprise to me at all you're feeling something is missing, yet your sub sometimes gets a little too in your face at the same time.
 

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