Power grid challenges in Texas

[Irvrobinson]

Jesse Jenkins is a well-known academic advocate of renewable power. While he accurately states that thermal plants (mostly gas turbine) did go offline, his lack of explanation for why (a natural gas shortage due to well equipment freezing too), his bringing up a nuclear plant going down without stating reasons, and his other excuses for power shortages to deflect from dependance on renewables, are indicative of personal agenda ass-covering. And bringing up localized stuff like downed lines was really weak. I'm not impressed.

 

[lovinthehd]

Jesse Jenkins is a well-known academic advocate of renewable power. While he accurately states that thermal plants (mostly gas turbine) did go offline, his lack of explanation for why (a natural gas shortage due to well equipment freezing too), his bringing up a nuclear plant going down without stating reasons, and his other excuses for power shortages to deflect from dependance on renewables, are indicative of personal agenda ass-covering. And bringing up localized stuff like downed lines was really weak. I'm not impressed.

LOL like both sides of the argument don't employ such.

 

[Irvrobinson]

LOL like both sides of the argument don't employ such.

Such an erudite answer...

 

[lovinthehd]

'A complete bungle': Texas' energy pride goes out with cold

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Anger over Texas' power grid failing in the face of a record winter freeze mounted Tuesday as millions of residents in the energy capital of the U.S. remained shivering with no assurances that their electricity and heat — out for 36 hours or longer in many homes — would return s

apnews.com

 

[Irvrobinson]

'A complete bungle': Texas' energy pride goes out with cold

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Anger over Texas' power grid failing in the face of a record winter freeze mounted Tuesday as millions of residents in the energy capital of the U.S. remained shivering with no assurances that their electricity and heat — out for 36 hours or longer in many homes — would return s

apnews.com

It is difficult finding well-researched articles on this topic. For example, one of the quotes in the article:

Ed Hirs, an energy fellow at the University of Houston, said the problem was a lack of weatherized power plants and a statewide energy market that doesn’t incentivize companies to generate electricity when demand is low. In Texas, demand peaks in August, at the height of the state’s sweltering summers.

He rejected that the storm went beyond what ERCOT could have anticipated.

“That’s nonsense. It’s not acceptable,” Hirs said. “Every eight to 10 years we have really bad winters. This is not a surprise.”

Sounds authoritative, until you search for Ed Hirs, and read that he's an economist, not a scientist or engineer in energy generation or distribution.

Energy Fellow Ed Hirs

University of Houston - UH Energy, Energy Fellows Bio of Ed Hirs

uh.edu

Wind power is a mess, as far as I'm concerned. While the full lifecycle energy payback for wind turbines is estimated at about one calendar year for the studies I've seen, out of a 20 year average projected lifespan, the studies I've found do not seem to include recycling of turbine blades, which is looking to be an expensive and energy-consuming process that is in its infancy. Most blades at EOL are just buried in landfills. And blades are replaced at an average of ten years, not twenty years. So every turbine, on average needs two sets of blades. And then there are the dedicated transmission lines to odd locations required for wind power transmission, which are necessary for almost any wind power project. Add in the hundreds of square miles of pristine land defiled by turbine farms, the obnoxious noise wind turbines make, and that the power generation is unreliable and uncorrelated to energy demand, to say the least, I don't mind saying I despise wind power. It is a pox on the environment and a pox on the electrical grids. Wind power probably wouldn't exist in the grids at all if not for exorbitant subsidies from governments at multiple levels, and laws that require generation companies to buy the power.

To make matters worse, solar power makes wind power look really good.

There isn't modern civilization without reliable electricity. The priority zero requirement for the electrical grid should be reliability, not reducing carbon emissions.

 

[Swerd]

I've been following this thread with some interest. But I had little to add. This morning's Washington Post had an op-ed piece titled:

Texas seceded from the nation’s power grid. Now it’s paying the price.
The state’s unique electrical system worked well for decades – but it wasn’t ready for unexpected cold.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/02/17/texas-power-winter-storm/

I thought it helped put things into perspective. So I thought I'd share it. If you can't open the link, I've attached a PDF copy of the article below.

 

[trochetier]

They aren't all the same.
Wind Energy in Cold Climates (nrcan.gc.ca)

I'm guessing that Texas utilities didn't feel that it was worth the investment to install windmills that could operate in cold temperatures.

Tx generates 20% from wind and greater than 50% from fossils. Some are using the wind failure to disparage renewables. Apparently even their gas pumping system was not designed for cold weather either so that cannot keep up also. To make things worse -
Texas has their own independent system - that way don't have to comply with Federal Regulations. Now ercot (Electric Reliability Council of Texas) has been... err caught... with their pants down!

 

[Mikado463]

a little Texas info .........

No Easy Answers as Texas Power Grid, Natural Gas Market Rocked by Unprecedented Cold Snap

Unprecedented cold snap rocks Texas power grid and natural gas market, causing chaos and widespread outages. Learn how supply shortages and extreme weather led to historic cold-related disruptions.

www.naturalgasintel.com

 

[its phillip]

 

[panteragstk]

I must be missing something about them wind turbines freezing in texas, while operating normally on Ross Island, near Antarctica

Ross Island wind farm

Ross Island is a wind farm located on Crater Hill, Antarctica. The world's southernmost wind farm greatly reduces the NZ and USA Antarctic base CO2 emissions.

www.meridianenergy.co.nz

.

It helps if things are insulated. We didn't think that was necessary despite west Texas getting an ice storm nearly every year I've been alive.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I've been following this thread with some interest. But I had little to add. This morning's Washington Post had an op-ed piece titled:

Texas seceded from the nation’s power grid. Now it’s paying the price.
The state’s unique electrical system worked well for decades – but it wasn’t ready for unexpected cold.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/02/17/texas-power-winter-storm/

I thought it helped put things into perspective. So I thought I'd share it. If you can't open the link, I've attached a PDF copy of the article below.

Yup. I found out about this several years ago, when my wife worked for the Department of Energy in electrical transmission. That's why I was joking before that Texas seemed to be preparing for secession. On the west coast, for example, power is transmitted over high voltage lines from the Pacific Northwest to California. In the winter, sometimes it was the other way, but given that California is an electrical wasteland now I doubt that's happening. And the cost to fix the Texas problem is likely into ten or eleven figures.

 

[Swerd]

And the cost to fix the Texas problem is likely into ten or eleven figures.

Just because Texas neglected that problem for decades doesn't mean they should continue to neglect it. They longer they avoid paying for it, the greater the expense. Of all places in the USA, Texas can afford it better than most.

The same goes for other public services such as police, fire & rescue, public schools, libraries, transportation (roads & mass transit) and yes, health care. Being chintzy about them is short sighted – as we see over & over.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Just because Texas neglected that problem for decades doesn't mean they should continue to neglect it. They longer they avoid paying for it, the greater the expense. Of all places in the USA, Texas can afford it better than most.

The same goes for other public services such as police, fire & rescue, public schools, libraries, transportation (roads & mass transit) and yes, health care. Being chintzy about them is short sighted – as we see over & over.

When did I say they should neglect it? I was just speculating that the fix would likely cost billions and probably tens of billions of dollars.

 

[Swerd]

When did I say they should neglect it? I was just speculating that the fix would likely cost billions and probably tens of billions of dollars.

You never said that. Nor did I mean to direct that at you.

I directed my comment at those who might take the standard conservative political response that big public expenditures must be avoided.

 

[panteragstk]

Just because Texas neglected that problem for decades doesn't mean they should continue to neglect it. They longer they avoid paying for it, the greater the expense. Of all places in the USA, Texas can afford it better than most.

The same goes for other public services such as police, fire & rescue, public schools, libraries, transportation (roads & mass transit) and yes, health care. Being chintzy about them is short sighted – as we see over & over.

This is what bugs me as a Texan. If we insist on having our own grid, shouldn't it be the envy of everyone else? We should have the most stable grid around since it's totally within our control, and when pushed we find out they may have cut corners with buying insulated materials for low temperature?

So many mistakes that could have easily been avoided.

 

[trochetier]

It helps if things are insulated. We didn't think that was necessary despite west Texas getting an ice storm nearly every year I've been alive.

It would have helped if Tx didn't believe Climate Change is a hoax!!

 

[Irvrobinson]

It would have helped if Tx didn't believe Climate Change is a hoax!!

Are you kidding? Texas is #1 in wind power, and generates three times the amount of power from wind as the #2 state, Iowa.

Wind power in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Rhetoric generates no power. Investment does, despite some really dumb decisions, like always assuming warm weather. By comparison to any other state, Texas has invested more in renewable power. Green-obsessed California is #5.

 

[trochetier]

Are you kidding? Texas is #1 in wind power, and generates three times the amount of power from wind as the #2 state, Iowa.

Wind power in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Rhetoric generates no power. Investment does, despite some really dumb decisions, like always assuming warm weather. By comparison to any other state, Texas has invested more in renewable power. Green-obsessed California is #5.

I meant accepting climate change is not a hoax and invest in wind turbines that operate in both extremes of conditions. Tx gets mre sun and wind a natural fit for both solar and wind compared to CA. Similarly, FL is natural for solar yet solar uptake is slow there, due to FPL's near monopoly. Stupid politics always gets in the way.

 

[Bernie Williams]

To add to the misery some water utilities are having issues and are advising folks to boil water. Also gas stations, restaurants and grocery stores are mostly, not all, shut down. A quick march to the stone age down here. I am all for more nuclear power plants.

 

[Irvrobinson]

To add to the misery some water utilities are having issues and are advising folks to boil water. Also gas stations, restaurants and grocery stores are mostly, not all, shut down. A quick march to the stone age down here. I am all for more nuclear power plants.

I like nuclear too, but not today’s full-custom, overly-complicated designs. As I mentioned in a previous post, I like these guys:

www.nuscalepower.com