Power grid challenges in Texas

[panteragstk]

To add to the misery some water utilities are having issues and are advising folks to boil water. Also gas stations, restaurants and grocery stores are mostly, not all, shut down. A quick march to the stone age down here. I am all for more nuclear power plants.

Yep. Our water pressure is slowly going away. Water hadn't been our issue till today. It still works, but I'm not sure how long that will continue.

 

[panteragstk]

I meant accepting climate change is not a hoax and invest in wind turbines that operate in both extremes of conditions. Tx gets mre sun and wind a natural fit for both solar and wind compared to CA. Similarly, FL is natural for solar yet solar uptake is slow there, due to FPL's near monopoly. Stupid politics always gets in the way.

That's the dumbest part. I'm from where all the damn turbines are. When I was a kid a LAKE froze over. That hasn't happened in a long time, but you can't tell me the morons buying the materials didn't think "gee, we could buy materials with better insulation and not have to worry about the cold, but nah, let's save some money. This is will be someone else's problem." Sure, maybe the data told them the temp wouldn't normally dip below ~25 degrees F for very long, but in any sort of infrastructure you have to have worst case scenario planning and disaster recovery.

If what I'm reading about the causes of the electrical issues are true, this stuff could have been easily avoided.

It's just like anything else, you don't do the job properly the first time, it regularly bites you in the ass.

 

[Mikado463]

I directed my comment at those who might take the standard conservative political response that big public expenditures must be avoided.

True or do a '180' and take the stand of the far left liberals, 'pissing money into the wind', no pun intended of course ......

 

[its phillip]

We’ve been under a boil water notice for the past two days and don’t know when that will pass. Lots of others still having issues. I’ve got friends who haven’t had power or water for 3 days now

Nearly 12 million Texans now face water disruptions. The state needs residents to stop dripping taps.

After enduring multiple days of freezing temperatures and Texans dripping faucets to prevent frozen pipes from bursting, cities across the state warned Wednesday that water levels are dangerously low, and it may be unsafe to drink.

www.texastribune.org

 

[Bernie Williams]

I am confident that the utility grid in texas will be "winterized" and that we will pay for it.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I am confident that the utility grid in texas will be "winterized" and that we will pay for it.

That will either include winterizing natural gas wells or building storage. Both are expensive solutions.

 

[TLS Guy]

That will either include winterizing natural gas wells or building storage. Both are expensive solutions.

This sounds absolutely horrific. It is starting to affect us up here in the Midwest. There have been some rolling blackouts up here to try and get power to Texas. Fargo ND and Moorhead across the Red River in MN have had rolling blackouts since yesterday. I understand that communities in Northwestern MN have had blackouts also. I have come to understand that this grid of which Texas is part extends right up the center of the country.

Fortunately our natural gas supply is not threatened as it is highly diversified.
Minnesota does not have any natural gas reserves or production. Although the state is crossed by several natural gas pipelines and has four U.S.-Canada border crossings that handle hundreds of billions of cubic feet of natural gas each year, the state has no natural gas market centers. Minnesota's natural gas supplies come from producing areas in Canada, North Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, and New Mexico.92 Interstate natural gas pipelines that enter Minnesota deliver nearly five times as much natural gas as is consumed in the state, and three-fourths of the natural gas that enters Minnesota continues on to Iowa and Wisconsin on its way to markets in the Midwest and beyond. A small amount is delivered to North Dakota.

So if these blackouts reach the Twin Cities metro, I have my generator. If the gas supply fails, that would leave me without electricity and heat.

This situation in Texas is a severe failure of design.

 

[Irvrobinson]

This sounds absolutely horrific. It is starting to affect us up here in the Midwest. There have been some rolling blackouts up here to try and get power to Texas. Fargo ND and Moorhead across the Red River in MN have had rolling blackouts since yesterday. I understand that communities in Northwestern MN have had blackouts also. I have come to understand that this grid of which Texas is part extends right up the center of the country.

Fortunately our natural gas supply is not threatened as it is highly diversified.
Minnesota does not have any natural gas reserves or production. Although the state is crossed by several natural gas pipelines and has four U.S.-Canada border crossings that handle hundreds of billions of cubic feet of natural gas each year, the state has no natural gas market centers. Minnesota's natural gas supplies come from producing areas in Canada, North Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, and New Mexico.92 Interstate natural gas pipelines that enter Minnesota deliver nearly five times as much natural gas as is consumed in the state, and three-fourths of the natural gas that enters Minnesota continues on to Iowa and Wisconsin on its way to markets in the Midwest and beyond. A small amount is delivered to North Dakota.

So if these blackouts reach the Twin Cities metro, I have my generator. If the gas supply fails, that would leave me without electricity and heat.

This situation in Texas is a severe failure of design.

Talking to my knowledgable on the subject wife, MN is part of MISO (Mid-continent Independent System Operator), and as you can see from this map, MISO covers part of Texas, albeit a small one.

So I suppose it is possible that you are affected by TX, but most of the problems are related to ERCT, because that's where most of the population is (Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, Houston).

 

[TLS Guy]

Talking to my knowledgable on the subject wife, MN is part of MISO (Mid-continent Independent System Operator), and as you can see from this map, MISO covers part of Texas, albeit a small one.

View attachment 44734


So I suppose it is possible that you are affected by TX, but most of the problems are related to ERCT, because that's where most of the population is (Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, Houston).

MPR reported during my travels today, the blackouts were related to the Texas situation.

 

[its phillip]

What Went Wrong With Texas’s Main Electric Grid and Could It Have Been Prevented?

An energy expert explains why some four million Texans suffered a barrage of winter storms without heat in their homes.

www.texasmonthly.com

 

[trochetier]

While Texans are suffering the Governor is playing usual asinine Republican politics blaming renewable energy for the failure and promoting fossils. No mention of why gas and even nuclear generators are unable to generate full power because of freezing equipment!

 

[highfigh]

This is what bugs me as a Texan. If we insist on having our own grid, shouldn't it be the envy of everyone else? We should have the most stable grid around since it's totally within our control, and when pushed we find out they may have cut corners with buying insulated materials for low temperature?

So many mistakes that could have easily been avoided.

Having a separate grid as the result of digging in their heels almost never results in being the envy of many.

How prevalent is using LPG in Texas? I know that it's common when laying pipe is prohibitively expensive and I have to think it would be a main source for heating/cooking. OTOH, I think rural people may be more resourceful than city folk, especially where local ordinances prohibit some things.

 

[Mikado463]

While Texans are suffering the Governor is playing usual asinine Republican politics blaming renewable energy for the failure and promoting fossils. No mention of why gas and even nuclear generators are unable to generate full power because of freezing equipment!

And then we have the bartender from NYC (AOC) claiming,, " the infrastructure failures in Texas are what you get when you don't pursue a new Green deal" . 'Asinine' occupies both sides of the aisle !

 

[highfigh]

And then we have the bartender from NYC (AOC) claiming,, " the infrastructure failures in Texas are what you get when you don't pursue a new Green deal" . 'Asinine' occupies both sides of the aisle !

So, wind and solar AREN'T part of the TX power system?

Let's build for freak weather- that makes total sense.

However, building for lower thermal loss would make this easier to tolerate AND make it better for freak weather.

 

[panteragstk]

Having a separate grid as the result of digging in their heels almost never results in being the envy of many.

How prevalent is using LPG in Texas? I know that it's common when laying pipe is prohibitively expensive and I have to think it would be a main source for heating/cooking. OTOH, I think rural people may be more resourceful than city folk, especially where local ordinances prohibit some things.

I had to look up what LPG is. We (to my knowledge) do not use that. Most rural folks I know including family have large propane tanks on their properties. That's typically what folks use when they don't have gas run to their house. Or, as is the case with a LOT of people, you're like me and stuck with electric heat. It's just due to where my neighborhood is. If I'd chosen a different neighborhood, I would have gas. Granted, that doesn't help if everything freezes and gas can't get to my house.

Right now the main issue in my area is water. The city can't keep pressure due to all the failures. They said they are pumping 3x as much water as they usually do this time of year. Right now, I have no water. Haven't had any since last night.

 

[panteragstk]

So, wind and solar AREN'T part of the TX power system?

Let's build for freak weather- that makes total sense.

However, building for lower thermal loss would make this easier to tolerate AND make it better for freak weather.

Crazy thing is that even the coal plants in TX (which are fewer and fewer since we use a LOT of natural gas) couldn't work at capacity because the coal piles froze.

People up north always say we can't handle winter. In some cases they are 100% correct, but I don't think people get that a lot of the time, we get freezing rain and sleet which builds up ice over everything. Then it snows. OR, it snows, but it's not quite cold enough so it melts and freezes overnight. Then more snow on top of a layer of ice. Stuff quits working when that happens, and it can happen quite suddenly. I've got from being outside playing football in 75 F weather to running inside an hour later because it started sleeting and the temp went down to 40 F. Our weather can be insane.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Yep. Our water pressure is slowly going away. Water hadn't been our issue till today. It still works, but I'm not sure how long that will continue.

Are you sure you don't have a leaking pipe, and the leak is getting worse?

 

[panteragstk]

Are you sure you don't have a leaking pipe, and the leak is getting worse?

Yes. The city put out a notice and everyone in our neighborhood has the same issue. We kept our pipes from freezing. Water comes through, but is a trickle.

My wife works for a water company for an area close by and my brother in law is a plumber, so between them we did what we were supposed to. Got lucky 90% of our stuff didn't freeze. What did freeze, thawed yesterday when it got above freezing for a bit. Then all the leaks that were frozen caused the pressure to go away. At least that's what the city says.

 

[highfigh]

Crazy thing is that even the coal plants in TX (which are fewer and fewer since we use a LOT of natural gas) couldn't work at capacity because the coal piles froze.

People up north always say we can't handle winter. In some cases they are 100% correct, but I don't think people get that a lot of the time, we get freezing rain and sleet which builds up ice over everything. Then it snows. OR, it snows, but it's not quite cold enough so it melts and freezes overnight. Then more snow on top of a layer of ice. Stuff quits working when that happens, and it can happen quite suddenly. I've got from being outside playing football in 75 F weather to running inside an hour later because it started sleeting and the temp went down to 40 F. Our weather can be insane.

WE Energies built a coal fired power plant, even though the public outcry and lawsuits countered their claims that the power: A) was needed, B) would be clean, C) would have no impact on housing values and D) would be environmentally sound. Wrong, on all four. It has never run at full capacity, the way it was built resulted in millions on dollars in fines from the EPA because they didn't install enough scrubbers for the exhaust, it decreased housing values and the ash pit washed into Lake Michigan. They plan to close it in the relatively near future and it originally cost billions to build, plus the lawsuits and fines.

Oak Creek's Coal-Powered Problem?

Dozens of residents living near the Oak Creek We Energies power plant have become increasingly vocal about the unfavorable living conditions in their area. Meanwhile, local organizations are ramping up involvement in the issue.

shepherdexpress.com

Completion of Oak Creek power plant delayed a second time

 

[highfigh]

I had to look up what LPG is. We (to my knowledge) do not use that. Most rural folks I know including family have large propane tanks on their properties. That's typically what folks use when they don't have gas run to their house. Or, as is the case with a LOT of people, you're like me and stuck with electric heat. It's just due to where my neighborhood is. If I'd chosen a different neighborhood, I would have gas. Granted, that doesn't help if everything freezes and gas can't get to my house.

Right now the main issue in my area is water. The city can't keep pressure due to all the failures. They said they are pumping 3x as much water as they usually do this time of year. Right now, I have no water. Haven't had any since last night.

Yeah- that's what I meant when I wrote LPG.

I wouldn't have electric heat unless power was extremely cheap or I could to it efficiently, so,.....no. Gas heat is much faster, I cook with natural gas, I don't have problems cooking if the power goes out because I can light a burner with a lighter and if necessary, I could do the same with the oven. CO isn't a problem unless O2 runs low and A) my house is leaky, B) it wouldn't need to burn for a long time and C) people use the oven cleaning cycle without dying and that goes WOT for 5 hours. All someone needs to do if they use a fuel-fed space heater is open a door or window slightly if they're worried about CO. CO detectors are supposed to be in houses, anyway.

If they're pumping 3x as much as normal, they have a lot of leaks.