power consumption

[mtrycrafts]

Never but then I am not limited to accepting the current methods, theories as absolute either.

No one suggested that we have absolutes in the current understandings. However, what we do have works, can be demonstrated and duplicated.
After that I am not sure what will satisfy you.

 

[Yamahaluver]

Point is why does it have to satisfy me, after all it is doubt that leads to further development. As for works, measurments etc. I am actively invovled with universities as a research scholar so I have some idea on what I am talking about and where I am coming from, maybe not in depth as some of our esteemed forum members, but good enough for me.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Point is why does it have to satisfy me, after all it is doubt that leads to further development. As for works, measurments etc. I am actively invovled with universities as a research scholar so I have some idea on what I am talking about and where I am coming from, maybe not in depth as some of our esteemed forum members, but good enough for me.

If you cannot be satisfied, no answer will do for you. Everything is open ended for you, your research is never ending in a singular area, no end. Or, that applies only in some areas only?

 

[toquemon]

Science was born because of these discutions. Some people were claiming the "universal truth" like some audiophiles claim, but just by guessing. Mathematics and Statistics are tools with provide you with a scientific method, therefore you can solve the Shakespeare's dillema "to be or not to be". In Mathematics everything is or isn't. I don't know why some people claim that they can hear things that a technology device doesn't. This disscution is absurd.

 

[Rob Babcock]

I like the Avatar, Yamahaluver.

 

[Yamahaluver]

Rob,

It was your post about Avatars that prompted me to use this one, thank you very much.

 

[Rob Babcock]

Cool. Since we have the ability, why not use it? It makes threads easy to follow, too.

 

[keenan]

In Mathematics everything is or isn't. .

Almost everything, how about the answer to pi?

Jim

 

[toquemon]

pi IS a limit. One of the ways to calculate pi is making sucesions between rational numbers (as you know, pi is a irrational number). Once you constructed your sucesion it could go till infinitum, so almost everybody stops arround 3.141592.....
As you can see, in Mathematics everything IS OR ISN'T.

 

[Mudcat]

A theory is just that until proven. However, it is pointless to compare the issue of mysterious amplifier audibility to Einstien, as you are attempting. On one hand you have Galileo or Einstien attempting to devise theories on observable phenomena; ................ Otherwise, how can I take these claims(that have been made for many years with NO evidence to back them up) seriously?

-Chris

Galileo did not do much for science that was already not know by others, he just stood against the church for a while. Einstein on the other hand produce a stand alone theory, one that is not based on any previous science. In other words he invented something so bizzare in his theory or relativity, that it was more than twenty years after his death that the subatomic particles is theory indicated should exist where actually found. It was more than forty years after his death and more than 90 years after he published his theory that the concept of a gravitional lens was proven.

So just because something cannot be proven today or tomorrow does not mean that it will never or ever be. Therfore if you think you hear something that current technology says isn't there, do not feel smug in your audiophile nirvana because future technology will prove it one way or the other. I do not know which way, nobody knows which way the wind will blow. But if you pull my finger, I'll tell you the frequency of the wind.

 

[Yamahaluver]

Mudcat,

The bottle of Bushmills along with Glenlivet and tandoori chicken is waiting for you when you make your trip down here.

 

[mtrycrafts]

So just because something cannot be proven today or tomorrow does not mean that it will never or ever be. Therfore if you think you hear something that current technology says isn't there, do not feel smug in your audiophile nirvana because future technology will prove it one way or the other. I do not know which way, nobody knows which way the wind will blow. But if you pull my finger, I'll tell you the frequency of the wind.

Oh, but your assertion is testable today. Very nicely, thanks. Any day of the week and repeatably.
This is nothing like Einstein but very simple. You just try to make it into a complex matter.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I don't know why some people claim that they can hear things that a technology device doesn't. This disscution is absurd.

One reason is that their beliefe system is overturned and their decisions of the past on flawed thinking would make them look bad?

They rather not find the truth? A religious experience?

 

[mtrycrafts]

so almost everybody stops arround 3.141592.....
As you can see, in Mathematics everything IS OR ISN'T.

There are a few diehards who let computers run for a long time and come up with huge decimalplaces

 

[av_phile]

One reason is that their beliefe system is overturned and their decisions of the past on flawed thinking would make them look bad?

They rather not find the truth? A religious experience?

Nope, statistics is irrelevant in this hobby. A belief system shared among many will never be overturned by a mere statistical result. Afterall, you can have all your respondents in a statistical DBT say they don't see GOD, but such statistics will hardly debunk the belief in GOD.

Truth? What truth? Well, if your truth is founded on mere statistics, you have my sympathies, I won't argue with you. But in this hobby, there are many truths. And the most pertinent of all is a personal subjective truth that is based on VALUE perceptions. This is a personal hobby. Not a scientific pursuit.

But I must admit, a statistical DBT does provide a comforting thought on people who cannot afford beyond what the statistics would have them.

 

[markw]

Audio is only a faith based religion?

A belief system shared among many will never be overturned by a mere statistical result. Afterall, you can have all your respondents in a statistical DBT say they don't see GOD, but such statistics will hardly debunk the belief in GOD.

So, you're saying that a lot of what's passed around in this hobby as "facts" are really only beliefs based on faith and many will totally disregard any proof that science that might supply?

 

[Rob Babcock]

Truth? What truth? Well, if your truth is founded on mere statistics, you have my sympathies, I won't argue with you. But in this hobby, there are many truths. And the most pertinent of all is a personal subjective truth that is based on VALUE perceptions. This is a personal hobby. Not a scientific pursuit.

You know what you get when you gather a bunch of subjective opinions, AVP? Yep- statistics. Just statistics based on opinion instead of measurements. Why should anyone else value your non-empiracal and likely-unreproducible statistics over someone elses?

So if that tree falls in the woods, does it make a sound, AVP? Or have you not reached that level in this hobby yet?

 

[Yamahaluver]

There is Lies, Damn Lies and then there is Statistics.........

Mark Twain.

Point is that even something which supposed to be logical can be connived to your own subjective view and then marketed and justified.

 

[Rob Babcock]

Well, if Mark Twain said it, it must be true! After all, he had such Folksy, Common Wisdom. I guess when it comes to sayings and platitudes, I prefer the old Arab proverb: "The truth angers those whom it doesn't convince."

 

[mtrycrafts]

Nope, statistics is irrelevant in this hobby.


NOPE. You made it clear that it is irrelevant to YOU. I wonder why that is?


A belief system shared among many will never be overturned by a mere statistical result.

Of course not. It is just a belief system that those many are after, not facts and reality.

Afterall, you can have all your respondents in a statistical DBT say they don't see GOD, but such statistics will hardly debunk the belief in GOD.

You are right, faith in the supernatural is all that matters, not facts and reality.


Truth? What truth?

Yep, you wouldn't know it if it was staring at you.


Well, if your truth is founded on mere statistics,

Ah, I wonder if those statistics came out of thin air, or emperical evidence?
You are not interested in facts. You will never know, just keep believing in the faith of audio religion.

you have my sympathies, I won't argue with you.

Hard to argue evidence with just beliefs.


But in this hobby, there are many truths.


Then there are none. Not possible.


And the most pertinent of all is a personal subjective truth that is based on VALUE perceptions.

To you a singular reality is imprtant. Not applicable to anyone else. Worthless to anyone else. Meaningless.

This is a personal hobby. Not a scientific pursuit.

I presumne you build your own reproduction system then? Create your own music? Or, rely on audio science and the artists of music?

But I must admit, a statistical DBT does provide a comforting thought on people who cannot afford beyond what the statistics would have them.

You are right. I cannot afford mythology, bs, hype, urban legends and voodoo.
You see, you can be right too.