Plasma manufacturer says "you bought it you live with it"

[canIscream]

Personally, I would be really angry at the store you bought it from. It's awful if they didn't explain to the T what happens if you watch 4 x 3 on a plasma. I ASSURE you that they know what burn is in and how it occurs. It's ludacris for a store carrying a set such as that to not care enough about you as their client to educate you on your new TV!

I own a business, too (an A/V integration company), and, while I certainly would have made CERTAIN you knew what burn in was and how to avoid it, the absolute LEAST I would do with an accident like this is offer you a new one at my dealers cost. Actually, if it came down to it I would call my rep and beat him into getting me the replacement at a reduced rate, then I would calculate out the profit I made from your first purchase and then have you pay the difference. Sure, I would have made zero on your purchase, but that's only one deal out of the year. A solid business can live with breaking even once in a while and should want to see their clients taken care of. You might want to try to work out replacement options through where you purchased the set? See if they can work with you on a replacement. Where did you buy it from?

That's what's killing me on this too. I'm dying to know who sold him this stuff. Any sales staff selling that caliber of a television should be shot for not explaining that. The only thing that would make sense is if he bought it off the internet, but he shouldn't have paid that much on the internet for it.

I don't know if it is his error or not. On my Fujitsu you can not go to wide screen with 4:3 aspect ratio material. The set however has a screen orbiter, that moves the picture once per hour. You can set it to move 5,10 or 15 pixels.

It seems to me there should be something in the design of the TV to stop this happening. If you can cause a burn problem by watching 4:3 material in the correct proportions, then that is bad design period.

I have to say I have viewed, Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung and of course Fujitsu, and I have to say I like the picture on the Samsungs the least. So may be there are more issues.

With proper break in and calibration there shouldn't be too many burn in issues. I've never had the slightest bit of image retention on my Panasonic plasma. I game on it constantly.

I haven't seen the TV the original poster bought in person, but Samsung plasmas are typically above average. They really shine in my opinion with their 71 and 81 series LCD's.

How come every time I mention plasmas and burn in problems, people here keep telling me that it's basically a thing of the past... obviously it's still and issue, and that's why I don't reccomend getting a plasma if you can help it. Sorry to hear about your problems, have you talked to the place you got if from to see if they can offer any help?

With proper care, and knowledge, it's not an issue. You still get better picture quality and color depth in a plasma. There's more bang for your buck in a plasma too. That's not to say that won't change in the future.

 

[GuyClinch]

It's ironic that this thread is right above a thread in which Plasma users vigorously claim "burn-in" isn't an issue. Maybe they aren't "educated" in what to "look for."

Plasma is nice for the videophile who will fuss and fret about his TV to make sure nothing "bad" happens to it, IMHO. But LCD is winning for a reason - it's no fuss technology. No running programs..no worring about "black bars" and so on.

Pete

 

[02ViperTodd]

Hi All,

I'm all calmed down now. I've been running the scrolling thing all morning and will continue to all day. Hopefully this will correct the problem.

I bought the set at Brandsmart and they were the first ones I called. They told me they would have replaced it if it was within 30 days but outside of that I had to talk to the manufacture. Talking to the manufacture is what made my head spin.

They should have a huge warning on the cover of the manual warning people about this. The rep of the manufactur agreed, but nothing they could do about it.

The usage of this TV is about 5 hours a day. I only watch sports and movies in full screen. The only thing I can think of that would have caused the burn or rentention problem are a few programs the wife watches which is only a couple hours a day. Oprah and Ellen..I showed her how to change the aspect last night but I still can't believe this thing is burned just because of that.

It seems to me that this thing was destined to burn regardless. When I watch a HD channel and it goes to commercial not all commercials are in full screen. Are you suppose to change the aspect every time a commercial comes on?

I am taking everyone's advise in trying to fix this thing and I do appreciate the advice you are giving me.

Thanks,
Todd

 

[stratman]

Hi All,

I'm all calmed down now. I've been running the scrolling thing all morning and will continue to all day. Hopefully this will correct the problem.

I bought the set at Brandsmart and they were the first ones I called. They told me they would have replaced it if it was within 30 days but outside of that I had to talk to the manufacture. Talking to the manufacture is what made my head spin.

They should have a huge warning on the cover of the manual warning people about this. The rep of the manufactur agreed, but nothing they could do about it.

The usage of this TV is about 5 hours a day. I only watch sports and movies in full screen. The only thing I can think of that would have caused the burn or rentention problem are a few programs the wife watches which is only a couple hours a day. Oprah and Ellen..I showed her how to change the aspect last night but I still can't believe this thing is burned just because of that.

It seems to me that this thing was destined to burn regardless. When I watch a HD channel and it goes to commercial not all commercials are in full screen. Are you suppose to change the aspect every time a commercial comes on?

I am taking everyone's advise in trying to fix this thing and I do appreciate the advice you are giving me.

Thanks,
Todd

Good luck Todd and keep us posted on how it goes.

 

[jinjuku]

Hi All,

They should have a huge warning on the cover of the manual warning people about this. The rep of the manufactur agreed, but nothing they could do about it.

I write and support software for a living. I also happen to write the user guide in Help & Manual (shameless plug for a great product).

You didn't read the user guide. You wanted Samsung to put a big 'Purple Button' that says "place your brain here, you won't need it".

You bought a $4k appliance and didn't think about the manual. My car dealer mechanic almost fainted when I told him I read the owners guide in the glove box cover to cover when I got the car.

Sorry, no sympathy here... I can easily imagine the tech at Samsung after the call.

If we had to put in on top of the manual a yellow sheet of paper for all the stuff users say there shoud be a "huge warning on the cover of the manual warning people about this" it would be a manual itself for most products. Man up and admit you didn't read it.

 

[MDS]

Remember how contentious the thread about Clint's 'Plasma is dead' article got? Everyone that is a plasma fan and bashed the article were talking about how plasma gives the 'best' video quality and that's all that matters, burn-in is a thing of the past, etc.

I don't think it's fair to say anyone that suffers burn-in did so simply because they didn't read or ignored warnings in the manual. The warnings are there because burn-in is a very real possiblity. The reality is that a normal person who isn't an obsessive videophile (ie the vast majority of the population) does not want to be a slave to TV maintenance. Are they supposed to set a timer for 2 hours and then change the channel or run a continuous loop of some DVD to refresh the screen? It doesn't happen.

So you suffer burn-in and the salesman or manufacturer asks 'Were you watching ESPN all day?' and when you answer Yes they tell you 'Well that's the problem, our TVs are only designed to be watched a few minutes at a time.' That won't go over too well with most people and I'd be angry too.

 

[jinjuku]

I don't know about you, but I am a person that gets my 'learn on' in almost all things. Before I purchase, I do ton of research. Almost to the point that it annoys my Wife.

I will tell you this: I HAVE NEVER BEEN BURNED because of that. Whether it be a car, power tools, electronics etc... I spend my money ONCE. I read the user guides. So no, I don't feel sorry for people when there is a TROVE of education out there and waiting for them. Ok, now let the excuses for not getting your learn on fly...

 

[Pyrrho]

but you get used to it and it doesn't even phase you after awhile.

getting my gf to use the stretch function has been an epic battle. i don't want any burn in. also, if your TV is capable of it (it better be for that price), and you can't stand the stretch feature, switch the color of the black bars on the sides in 4:3 shows, and movies in cinematic aspect ratio to a gray color as it would be less prone to burn in.

I don't blame your girlfriend. So many plasma owners brag about the picture, and heap scorn on LCD TVs (that these days, look almost the same as plasmas), and then they ruin the picture by massive distorting and/or cropping in order to prevent burn-in!

 

[Pyrrho]

This kind of thing is inherent in plasma technology - it would have happened to any plasma you bought. I get that you're pissed about it but it's your (or someone that lives in your home) viewing habits that caused it. Just a little research on your part before buying the TV (or even a thorough perusal of the manual) would have told you this. I have a plasma and with proper break in and care this kind of thing is easily avoided. As others have said, this is most likely not permanent (though you don't seem to be acknowledging the advice). Run a burn in DVD for a few days and you should see a huge reduction (if not total elimination) of the problem. Don't be mad at the manufacturer - be mad at yourself for not knowing what you bought and how to use it properly. This is user error, not a manufacturing defect.

If he had done "research" by reading posts at web sites like this one, he would have read countless posts from people claiming that with modern plasma TVs, "burn-in" is a myth.

 

[Audioholics]

In summary, the first post of this thread should really read "Brand X" cause if you had done this with anyone else's plasma the results would have been the same and the warnings are just as obscure.

 

[Pyrrho]

Manufacturers as well as nearly every extended warranty program I've ever seen consider screen burn in an issue of ABUSE. Leaving a static image on screen (and yes, black bars count as a static image) is considered a form of abuse. What's just BS at this point is why manufacturers even put a 4x3 aspect mode in the set's software if they know that it could lead to "abuse". Aren't they tempting unknowing consumers?

...

Indeed, why do they put in aspect ratio choices such that using them counts as "abuse" of the TV? The makers of the TVs are either morons or they want people to ruin their TVs.

 

[TLS Guy]

Remember how contentious the thread about Clint's 'Plasma is dead' article got? Everyone that is a plasma fan and bashed the article were talking about how plasma gives the 'best' video quality and that's all that matters, burn-in is a thing of the past, etc.

I don't think it's fair to say anyone that suffers burn-in did so simply because they didn't read or ignored warnings in the manual. The warnings are there because burn-in is a very real possiblity. The reality is that a normal person who isn't an obsessive videophile (ie the vast majority of the population) does not want to be a slave to TV maintenance. Are they supposed to set a timer for 2 hours and then change the channel or run a continuous loop of some DVD to refresh the screen? It doesn't happen.

So you suffer burn-in and the salesman or manufacturer asks 'Were you watching ESPN all day?' and when you answer Yes they tell you 'Well that's the problem, our TVs are only designed to be watched a few minutes at a time.' That won't go over too well with most people and I'd be angry too.

I agree with the above completely. Before you design anything the designer has to ask, is it any use? These days this question is not asked nearly as often as it should be. Do any other Plasma move the picture a few pixels every hour, like mine does? I have had no burn problems and have not used the DVD mentioned. I'm wondering if this is a feature of other Plasmas.

 

[Pyrrho]

How come every time I mention plasmas and burn in problems, people here keep telling me that it's basically a thing of the past... obviously it's still and issue, and that's why I don't reccomend getting a plasma if you can help it. Sorry to hear about your problems, have you talked to the place you got if from to see if they can offer any help?

You hear that because people are sheep who parrot everything they hear as if they knew it to be true (sorry for the mixed metaphor, but I wanted the extra emphasis). "Burn-in" is real, or it would not be mentioned in the manuals, and they would start giving warranties against it if they ever managed to solve the problem completely.

Given that I hate distorted and cropped images, I went with an LCD. Those who like distortion and cropping may buy whatever type of TV they like.

 

[jinjuku]

Amazing what one can find at Samsung.com. It's even on the VERY FIRST PAGE of the download-able PDF or DjVu user guide for the display in question. Again the OP didn't even make it to page one

 

[Pyrrho]

Hi All,

I'm all calmed down now. I've been running the scrolling thing all morning and will continue to all day. Hopefully this will correct the problem.

I bought the set at Brandsmart and they were the first ones I called. They told me they would have replaced it if it was within 30 days but outside of that I had to talk to the manufacture. Talking to the manufacture is what made my head spin.

They should have a huge warning on the cover of the manual warning people about this. The rep of the manufactur agreed, but nothing they could do about it.

The usage of this TV is about 5 hours a day. I only watch sports and movies in full screen. The only thing I can think of that would have caused the burn or rentention problem are a few programs the wife watches which is only a couple hours a day. Oprah and Ellen..I showed her how to change the aspect last night but I still can't believe this thing is burned just because of that.

It seems to me that this thing was destined to burn regardless. When I watch a HD channel and it goes to commercial not all commercials are in full screen. Are you suppose to change the aspect every time a commercial comes on?

I am taking everyone's advise in trying to fix this thing and I do appreciate the advice you are giving me.

Thanks,
Todd

I am glad that you are more calm now. It is possible that the damage is not too extensive, and you will be able to fix it with the suggestions that others have made. Once you have it fixed, to avoid it happening again in the future, make sure you have the brightness and contrast properly adjusted, and never watch anything that isn't formatted to fit your screen. Either stretch, crop, or both, to make everything fit.

As for the commercials, having some video that does not fill the screen for a short period of time shouldn't be too much of a problem, particularly if you don't have the brightness and contrast set too high. However, I can make no promises about this.

And always read manuals, and take their warnings seriously, no matter what advice you read in places like this. Too many people don't know what they are talking about, and pass on misinformation. Use whatever anti-burn-in settings that are available in your set.

 

[02ViperTodd]

You are correct Jinjuku. I'm not making excuses for not reading that paragraph. The TOC and heading say "Important warranty information..." being a brand new set I probably didn't think I had a warranty issue. Perhaps a better heading would be "Important Operating Information..." Again, you are correct..my fault..but still 4 months old?? come on..
Todd

 

[jinjuku]

You are correct Jinjuku. I'm not making excuses for not reading that paragraph. The TOC and heading say "Important warranty information..." being a brand new set I probably didn't think I had a warranty issue. Perhaps a better heading would be "Important Operating Information..." Again, you are correct..my fault..but still 4 months old?? come on..
Todd

Plasma TV's most of all have some operation restrictions and limits. My point being is that you are here smearing Samsung for something that I believe to be totally end user related.

Additional points being:

1. The user guide is available to anyone that wants to look at it prior to purchase.

2. The first 3 pages AT LENGTH speak to burn in and cover a bunch of scenarios, which you fall right into.

3. It really doesn't sound like you read the user guide. It's 83 pages, not War & Peace.

4. If you had looked up the user guide before purchase, saw the warnings on the first few pages, would you still have bought?

This thread is now four pages too long. Four months, forty days, whatever, the user guide was implicit. Caveat Emptor/Due Diligence/What ever. I have no idea why I was the only one that could take on the assertion that Samsung is some how at fault via their user guide and show that in 30 seconds you would have had your answer.

Yes it burns me to see posts like yours shooting from the hip for a manufacturer. I know manufacturers aren't perfect
But they aren't always the protagonist either.

Look, I don't know what research you did before plunking down $4K + for a TV, but I am pretty sure of what you didn't.

 

[bandphan]

I agree with the above completely. Before you design anything the designer has to ask, is it any use? These days this question is not asked nearly as often as it should be. Do any other Plasma move the picture a few pixels every hour, like mine does? I have had no burn problems and have not used the DVD mentioned. I'm wondering if this is a feature of other Plasmas.

pioneer elites have been doing pixel shifting since day one, other vendors are trying to catch on. Thats why i feel comfortable spec-ing them. I here what your saying about quality and i agree, and sometimes i think its the quality of the consumer also; making expensive purchases and not understanding them. There are reasons some displays cost more and i believe in you pay for what you get(or build in your case ) i hope its just retention as ive stated over and over, which can be corrected. Hope it works out for ya vt and not and expensive lesson learned.

post an update later please

 

[MDS]

2. The first 3 pages AT LENGTH speak to burn in and cover a bunch of scenarios, which you fall right into.

Those scenarios are all too common as they occur many times per day every single day. How can one not view that as a major disadvantage? The manual speaks at length about them precisely because those common viewing patterns will expose the viewer to the risk. Just as an insurance company isn't going to insure someone they deem to be high risk, the manufacturer will not provide a warranty against something that has a high probability of occurring.

One thing I agree with though is you should read the manuals beforehand if possible and if more people did that and realized that the way they watch TV every day is exactly what the manual says you shouldn't do, it would hasten the demise of plasma.

 

[unreal.freak]

One thing I agree with though is you should read the manuals beforehand if possible and if more people did that and realized that the way they watch TV every day is exactly what the manual says you shouldn't do, it would hasten the demise of plasma.

Im with you on the demise of plasma. I have been doing research for a new Flatscreen TV. My new house will be finished within the next 2 months and im going to need a big tv.
I was already against the Plasma tvs due to the burn in factor. I have been doing some reading here on the forums about "burn in" being a thing of the past. Well this thread has reafirmed me that it must not be a thing of the past.
I have had LCD PC monitors, so im pretty comfortable about buying another LCD. Im leaning toward the Sharp Aquious, or the Sony.
If the original poster would have read the manual and seen the warning, would the store have been willing/obligated to buy the TV back on the grounds that he didnt want a TV that could be dammaged in this manner?

Peace,
Tommy