Picking a surge protector

[zumbo]

I use this.
http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/browse-by-category/smart-app-ups/pp-series/PR2200LCDRT2U.html
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102105&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-UPS+(Back+Up+Power+Supply)-_-Cyberpower-_-42102105

Hard to explain all this thing does, but the main thing for me is the UPS feature that protects my expensive equipment from power spikes and brownouts. Not only that, this piece of equipment actually alerted me that my whole house had too many volts coming in. The fan on the unit began to continuously run. I called the manufacturer about the problem, and they walked me through the diagnosis of my problem. I called an electrician who told me it was a power company problem. Power company came right out, determined my whole block in the neighborhood was receiving too high of a voltage, and went to another location to fix. Called me back to check my volts again, which is displayed in a menu on the cyberpower unit, and my problem was solved.

The whole point is in the last five years, I have had to replace my washer/drier/fridge/hot water heater/central ac/2 tv's/oven. In other words, most of the appliances in my home have had to be replaced. It could have very well been the high voltage coming in, along with the spikes and brownouts. I feel my cyberpower UPS has more than paid for itself.

 

[highfigh]

Yeah I don't know what planet you are from, but the cable guys are not the brightest knives in my area.

Why are you asking this? I said mine weren't grounded. Except for a few cable installators (yes, I spelled it this way purposely), the ones I have talked with could easily have gotten a job as a carny. The ones who had a clue are in an upper tier at Time Warner and apparently, the additional information they have isn't supposed to be given to the underlings.

 

[westom]

I've seen (that I can recall) three computers that were taken out of comission from voltage spikes down a POTS line.

Which is an assumption that layman then convert into fact - when laymen do not learn basic electrical concepts. If you were an engineer, then you know the most common source of modem damage is AC electric. Why? 1) POTS line already has an earthed protector. 2) Surges rarely strike telephone wires because phone lines are protected by AC electric wires. 3) Most common source of surges is AC electric. 4) A best path from AC electric to earth is destructively via modems. A path made easier by an adjacent plug-in protector. 5) To know how a modem was damaged, you must first define both the incoming and outgoing electric paths. You did not for the usual reasons.

JerryLove - no way around reality. Obviously, you lied about being an engineer. Now you post another classic urban myth - surge entering on POTS lines - and with no outgoing path? Only the most technically naive layman make that claim. Do not even know about the 'whole house' protector required on every POTS line. You assumed a surge entered on telephone lines only because modems were damaged. Then converted that assumption automatically into fact. Another example of how observation creates junk science conclusions.

If incoming was the phone line, then what was the outgoing path? No outgoing path means no surge existed. Either those modems were not damaged OR you again did what no engineer would do. Or is electricity taught differently in your 'engineering school'? Do they really teach engineering in the Hogwarts School? In the computer lab, do they still use cloud computers?

 

[westom]

The whole point is in the last five years, I have had to replace my washer/drier/fridge/hot water heater/central ac/2 tv's/oven. In other words, most of the appliances in my home have had to be replaced.

If failure due to high voltage, then you also replaced incandescent bulb frequently.

The numbers: when 120 volts AC is 126 volts, your bulbs burn out twice as fast. All 120 volt appliances work normally (without damage) even at 130 volts. So, if voltage was at 140 volts, your bulbs were failing 6 times faster. If you were losing so many appliances that quickly, voltage was probably even higher. Did you (and your neighbors) notice how quickly incandescent bulbs were failing?

 

[westom]

Yeah I don't know what planet you are from, but the cable guys are not the brightest knives in my area.

When big cable companies bought the little companies, then linemen were taught how to earth. Previously, cable companies would even install interior grade wire outside - then blame anyone but themselves when customers had bad signals years later. The new owner replaced crap wire with exterior grade cable AND taught linemen how to earth. If your cable companies still suffers the legacy of business school thinking, then your cable may not be earthed.

In one location, a cable guy pushed the copper ground wire into a window flower box. His reasoning - the box contained dirt and dirt is earth. So the cable was earthed. These guys are still around. Not in the numbers that used to be. But still around.

 

[JerryLove]

Which is an assumption that layman then convert into fact - when laymen do not learn basic electrical concepts. If you were an engineer, then you know the most common source of modem damage is AC electric. Why?

How about I tell you why not.

Because I haven't used an external modem in a long time. the modems in question were not attached to AC power. So the only two sources of connection were through the POTS line, and from the AC, through the PC power supply, across the motherboard, and up through the bus power line.

If incoming was the phone line, then what was the outgoing path?

I didn't check. If I had to guess, I would say "the DC return on the ISA bus", though it certainly could have tried to return down the phone line. In two cases, once the MODEM and ajacent card were replaced, the rest of the system continued to function (in the third, though the system would power up, it was not properly functional again).

Nice try though.

A quick question:

When I linked you to the PDF of the installation guide for one of APC's surge suppressors, and pointed you to the page (page 10) which instructed on how to attach the grounding line from the suppressor to the earth ground; what rationalization has allowed you several more pages of claiming that APC doesn't have or discuss grounding?

Please answer that question. I would remind you that repeating your rant is not an answer.

 

[zumbo]

If failure due to high voltage, then you also replaced incandescent bulb frequently.

The numbers: when 120 volts AC is 126 volts, your bulbs burn out twice as fast. All 120 volt appliances work normally (without damage) even at 130 volts. So, if voltage was at 140 volts, your bulbs were failing 6 times faster. If you were losing so many appliances that quickly, voltage was probably even higher. Did you (and your neighbors) notice how quickly incandescent bulbs were failing?

Bulbs don't last too long either. Problem is solved now. 124 to 125 coming in. When the UPS fan was constantly running, it was 127 to 128. Good to know that the newer appliances are probably okay, seeing as how I just found this out.

Thanks for the info.

 

[westom]

When the UPS fan was constantly running, it was 127 to 128.

If high voltage was only 128 volts, then you had no appliance damage. Voltage had to be significantly higher to have all that damage. 128 volts must not damage any 120 volt appiance.

 

[lsiberian]

Why are you asking this? I said mine weren't grounded. Except for a few cable installators (yes, I spelled it this way purposely), the ones I have talked with could easily have gotten a job as a carny. The ones who had a clue are in an upper tier at Time Warner and apparently, the additional information they have isn't supposed to be given to the underlings.

Was an agreement directed at another poster.

 

[highfigh]

Was an agreement directed at another poster.

OK then. I thought you were trying to insult me.

 

[lsiberian]

OK then. I thought you were trying to insult me.

No was insulting the way cable companies do service.

But Time Warner is still better than Charter.

 

[JerryLove]

Bulbs don't last too long either. Problem is solved now. 124 to 125 coming in. When the UPS fan was constantly running, it was 127 to 128. Good to know that the newer appliances are probably okay, seeing as how I just found this out.

The small over-voltage was a symptom of another problem. I suspect you had pretty significant fluctuation as well. Perhaps transient spikes. Perhaps undervoltages (some lights are fine with them, others are not (read: don't like dimmer switches either)).

 

[abjonesiii]

Interesting. So it's impossible for a UPS to provide a path to ground but a phone can?

Simple solution then: you should protect all of your electronics with phones.

OMG LMAO!! aah hahaha haha a o lord Jesus help me....

I had a really hard time convincing my wife on the dedicated theater room shes never gonna let me duct tape the cordless phone to the TV. I can hear it now "I can't ever make any calls because the damn TV is always on the phone!"

... but seriously I've lost thousands of dollars in sensitve gear to what seemed like relatively harmless storms. I can vividly remember my parents making me as a child go through the house and unplug the TV when storms blew up because they knew that after the storm there was a good chance it wouldn't work anymore and this was during the dark ages of technology.

I did lose a Dell computer ($1800) to lightning that was plugged into a $5 surge strip I bought at a home improvement store. (1990 ish)

After that ever surge protector I bought was either a Panamax or Monster Cable ( though I don't really like Monster they do make really good conditioners) I've used APC and they have served me flawlessly but find that I prefer Panamax. Now everything over $500 in my house is on a surge protector and since the incorporation of these obviously ignorant and over priced devices I have lost not one single electronic device.

As far as i can tell this post was closed after the first reply "just buy an APC and don't worry about it"