Philharmonic Audio - 3-way open back ML-TQWTs designed by Dennis Murphy

[GranteedEV]

Calling mine "SupremeReference +/-1" <== don't take that one Grant it is Copyrighted already.

But not by you..
Nordost : Products : Odin Supreme Reference Speaker Cable

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Dennis Murphy -- when you ran your FR plots, is the measurement mic also at 1 meter in distance away from the driver, and at what height, to align with the Planar mid-range driver, or the RAAL tweeter or ?

Also, isn't it true to state, that when the speaker is measured in the Anechoic chamber of which your plots are showing, and then one moves it to his room, things look totally different in FR plots with the room reflections, etc.?

In other words, isn't it true to state what looks nice and ruler-flat in the anechoic chamber is not what it looks like in ones room?

Oh yea, BTW -- are you Serializing Each and Every Speaker, and keeping the measurements and exact Xover design w/tweaks as required for them on file there?

Had to put that in, as I know ADTG forgot that one also...like the elastomeric vibration isolation gaskets for all drivers.

Well, I'm certainly keeping records of the measurements. My measurements are made at a little over one meter with the mic on the tweeter axis. Rooms will have the most impact on response in the bass region, which I don't show, and at the top end where the highs may roll off due to absorption by curtains, rugs, furniture, etc. About all I can tell you is that a speaker that is flat will sound flatter in a typical room than a speaker that has a lot of peaks and dips. I could do a room measurement, but I'm not sure what it would tell you. You don't know how your room differs from mine.

 

[GranteedEV]

Also, isn't it true to state, that when the speaker is measured in the Anechoic chamber of which your plots are showing, and then one moves it to his room, things look totally different in FR plots with the room reflections, etc.?

Sure; lots of stuff happens in a room. We mostly hear the "balance" of sound radiated into and reflected by the room and towards our ears.

There's a lot of the "brain/ear" at play and so the on and off axis anechoic measurements are more meaningful to determine whether a speaker is doing what it's supposed to do, than a true in room measurement that just shows you how you do in fact hear the room.

I mean can you imagine that when you listen to music in a room, that this is what your ear/brain thinks it's hearing:

Sure, from the general trend above you can see a rise in off axis response of these speakers near 4-9khz (or more specifically, a dip from ~2khz to 4khz) but beyond that, is the graph really useful in any way? All it really shows is that a true in room measurement has too many factors at play to isolate the speaker.

 

[DenPureSound]

But not by you..
Nordost : Products : Odin Supreme Reference Speaker Cable

Technically speaking per Copyright Laws in the USA, mine is totally different -- no space between the words and also includes a +/-1: No Cigar -- I OWN IT as it Qualifies as BEING DIFFERENT...

Your Copyright laws in Canada are certainly different than ours in the U.S.A., I think that is where your confused [Laughing].

 

[DenPureSound]

Sure; lots of stuff happens in a room. We mostly hear the "balance" of sound radiated into and reflected by the room and towards our ears.

There's a lot of the "brain/ear" at play and so the on and off axis anechoic measurements are more meaningful to determine whether a speaker is doing what it's supposed to do, than a true in room measurement that just shows you how you do in fact hear the room.

I mean can you imagine that when you listen to music in a room, that this is what your ear/brain thinks it's hearing:

Sure, from the general trend above you can see a rise in off axis response of these speakers near 4-9khz (or more specifically, a dip from ~2khz to 4khz) but beyond that, is the graph really useful in any way? All it really shows is that a true in room measurement has too many factors at play to isolate the speaker.

And what did this speaker look like in the chamber, before it was Xported to that Terrible Room? Room probably is MINE...

 

[GranteedEV]

And what did this speaker look like in the chamber, before it was Xported to that Terrible Room? Room probably is MINE...

Dunno about anechoic chambers, but ignoring the floor bounce dip near 250hz, that speaker's response looks a little something like:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/emptek-e55ti/EMPFreq.JPG/image

when you take some measures to take the room out of the equation. The above is still an in room measurement though.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not Dissin them or Ditchin them at all...

Just wanted to see how they compare to the PH3's, since they are Reference Speakers, just like my REFERENCE KLIPSCH RF-82II's.

Everyone wants to call their speakers "REFERENCE" !!

Didn't you watch the you tube video on the kef ref speakers? They are truly reference. No really.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Didn't you watch the you tube video on the kef ref speakers? They are truly reference. No really.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Hmmmm I didn't see anything related to KEF on that link. At lest nothing that worked.

 

[zieglj01]

Here is one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqgQXlXnxa0

And another one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzqCsAQuqvA

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hmmmm I didn't see anything related to KEF on that link. At lest nothing that worked.

Sorry about that. I was trying to copy and paste the link on a new tablet.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Here is one
KEF Reference Series - YouTube

And another one
KEF Reference 201/2 - YouTube

Thanks Can't say that the soundtrack makes much of a case for it, but it sure measures well on Stereophile. I'm a little surprised that anything this expensive (list $5000 a pair) uses electrolytic caps and iron core inductors. I doubt that they make any audible difference, but it sure points out how important it is to keep costs down even on "reference" speakers.

 

[GranteedEV]

I'm a little surprised that anything this expensive (list $5000 a pair) uses electrolytic caps and iron core inductors.

They had to choose between a poly cap, and a triwiring binding post!

 

[zieglj01]

Thanks Can't say that the soundtrack makes much of a case for it, but it sure measures well on Stereophile. I'm a little surprised that anything this expensive (list $5000 a pair) uses electrolytic caps and iron core inductors. I doubt that they make any audible difference, but it sure points out how important it is to keep costs down even on "reference" speakers.

The soundtrack was annoying - I like the measurements - I still would like
to see at least, poly caps on the tweeter. The cheap Pioneers have one on
the tweeter. Maybe when you build the Philharmonic .5 bookshelf speaker,
you will put poly caps on the tweeter.

 

[GranteedEV]

I still would like
to see at least, poly caps on the tweeter.

The KEF is a 3-way. Poly caps and air cores are used in the upper crossover, but electrolytics and cored inductors are used in the lower crossover where their values are larger.

 

[zieglj01]

The KEF is a 3-way. Poly caps and air cores are used in the upper crossover, but electrolytics and cored inductors are used in the lower crossover where their values are larger.

Thanks - I am half a sleep - need to go to bed.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So the parts used in the Philharmonic 3 are higher quality than the sexy looking shiny KEF?

 

[DenPureSound]

Sorry about that. I was trying to copy and paste the link on a new tablet.

If they had a NO Thanks, I would of given you that one... LOL...

Put that Tablet down, Jobs is gone now, and use your old QWERTY KB there!!

 

[Dennis Murphy]

So the parts used in the Philharmonic 3 are higher quality than the sexy looking shiny KEF?

Well, they certainly are in the woofer circuit. But I only used poly caps to avoid controversy. I'm sure I could sneak into an owner's house at 3 in the morning, yank the big poly's out and switch in NPE's, and no one would be the wiser when they cranked up the speakers the next day.

 

[cpp]

Put that Tablet down, Jobs is gone now, and use your old QWERTY KB there!!

don't give up on your tablet it will live forever or until the next version comes out

 

[DenPureSound]

So the parts used in the Philharmonic 3 are higher quality than the sexy looking shiny KEF?

Forget that Shiny stuff, suggestion: Move all AC Power cables away from your speaker cables, and low level stuff there -- that will help you get greater isolation from that nasty AC Sinusoidal waveform running on top of your speaker cable signals, and coming out of those KEF's...

They suggest for greatest isolation if you can't separate them out, cross the AC with signal cables at 90 Degrees. Not my first or last RODEO here!