Philharmonic Audio - 3-way open back ML-TQWTs designed by Dennis Murphy

[DenPureSound]

anechoically, based on this:

F3 is close to 25hz and F10 is close to 19hz

But realistically, in a real room, there's no real telling what the actual results are unless you measure them yourself. You could get 5 to 10db of lift at 20hz. You could have a 10db dip between 40hz to 60hz too. There's really no telling what will happen in-room.

Great, that is even better than the Veracity HT3's!!

Do you think that is caused by the ScanSpeak Revelator woof, and the ML-TL characteristics?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Having done it once already, I think it's CRAZY to buy speakers i've auditioned. they just don't match up to online stuff

U have a point there. Unless you spend some money, U will not beat the PH2 for $2K, including B&W, Paradigm, PSB, KEF, Revel, & every other company out there.

That is why I like what Dennis is doing - spreading the love.

He could make a huge profit, but then he would be just like any other company out there.

 

[GranteedEV]

Great, that is even better than the Veracity HT3's!!

That would depend on the shape of the curve for the HT3s. If they're tuned around 20hz they might have a lower F10 despite a higher F3. The huge aluminum driver can probably take a bigger beating.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

That would depend on the shape of the curve for the HT3s. If they're tuned around 20hz they might have a lower F10 despite a higher F3. The huge aluminum driver can probably take a bigger beating.

The HT3's are tuned to around 31 Hz in a conventional bass reflex loading. They have enormous power handling above that point, but very little output below 30 Hz.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

DenPureSound asked DMurphy about testing the philharmonic speakers prior to shipping.

I was sure Dennis would test them, but I did not realize he would also give us the actual measurement document?

Dennis, could you please also autograph the document?

I have never asked for anyone's autograph in my life, so this will be the first!

Keeps on getting cooler & cooler.

 

[DenPureSound]

DenPureSound asked DMurphy about testing the philharmonic speakers prior to shipping.

I was sure Dennis would test them, but I did not realize he would also give us the actual measurement document?

Dennis, could you please also autograph the document?

I have never asked for anyone's autograph in my life, so this will be the first!

Keeps on getting cooler & cooler.

It can not get any better than that - each spkr. individually tested and measured, and Xovers re-adjusted after driver break-in, as required, then measurement plots sent with your speakers, and signed by DENNIS MURPHY!!

What more can you Ask for? I bet you did NOT get that from Orion and Revel did you?

Dennis

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It can not get any better than that - each spkr. individually tested and measured, and Xovers re-adjusted after driver break-in, as required, then measurement plots sent with your speakers, and signed by DENNIS MURPHY!!

What more can you Ask for? I bet you did NOT get that from Orion and Revel did you?

Dennis

No I did not get any signed plots for the Salon2 or Orions.

I got a signed on-axis plot for my KEF 201/2s.

 

[DenPureSound]

No I did not get any signed plots for the Salon2 or Orions.

I got a signed on-axis plot for my KEF 201/2s.

So when you get home later on, post your KEF on-axis plots here as they were delivered to you there, and compare them to the Phil 3 numbers, ok?

Assume your Phil3 numbers are per DM's web site post of the on-axis plot, knowing you will receive physically that or maybe even better when your Phil3's show up there!!

Ideally, you can scan in the KEF on-axis plots. I am just very curious, as if I remember right the KEF 201/2 run around $3K each, right?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So when you get home later on, post your KEF on-axis plots here as they were delivered to you there, and compare them to the Phil 3 numbers, ok?

Assume your Phil3 numbers are per DM's web site post of the on-axis plot, knowing you will receive physically that or maybe even better when your Phil3's show up there!!

Ideally, you can scan in the KEF on-axis plots. I am just very curious, as if I remember right the KEF 201/2 run around $3K each, right?

OK, here is a signed RF graph of a pair of my KEF 201/2 (I erased the name of builder, serial numbers, and signature).

Not even close to the extensive graphs as the Philharmonics.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

OK, here is a signed RF graph of a pair of my KEF 201/2 (I erased the name of builder, serial numbers, and signature).

Not even close to the extensive graphs as the Philharmonics.

Just a couple of comments. I don't want to criticize other speaker manufacturers, but just as a factual matter--please note that the dB grids on the KEF graph are 10 dB. The ones on my site are 5 dB. If KEf were to have used the more rigourous and meaninful 5 dB demarcations, all of the deviations from flat would be twice as great as they appear on this plot. Second, I do send measurements to buyers, but they aren't as extensive as on my site. Once I've established that the on-axis plot is in spec, there really isn't any need to burden you with all the off-axis plots, although if you request it I will do it.

 

[GranteedEV]

Second, I do send measurements to buyers, but they aren't as extensive as on my site. Once I've established that the on-axis plot is in spec, there really isn't any need to burden you with all the off-axis plots, although if you request it I will do it.

While I 100% agree with you, I think, just for acu def tech guy, who loves pretty polar graphs as much as me you should definitely include off axis plots (on the same overall graph)

Then he can frame it an put it right in the first reflection point. and when people ask him why it's not treated, he points to the polar graph

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

While I 100% agree with you, I think, just for acu def tech guy, who loves pretty polar graphs as much as me you should definitely include off axis plots (on the same overall graph)

Then he can frame it an put it right in the first reflection point. and when people ask him why it's not treated, he points to the polar graph

Yes, exactly what GranteedEV said.

I'm never going to do any stinking room treatments anyway because I'm too lazy & stubborn, so I might as well have a good excuse.

 

[DenPureSound]

OK, here is a signed RF graph of a pair of my KEF 201/2 (I erased the name of builder, serial numbers, and signature).

Not even close to the extensive graphs as the Philharmonics.

Philharmonic Audio Phil 3 - On Axis FR Plot

Like DM stated, major difference when you look at the Granualarity/Resolution on the Y-Axis for SPL, also a difference around 300-500 Hz. but very hard to determine with 10db Markers.

Also, the KEF's were measured it looks like with 85db as their Reference, and I do not know why, where the Philharmonic PH3 plot is right on at 75db Reference.

The Phil3's look flatter at around 800-1500 Hz. than the KEF's.

The KEF's go crazy at around 10kHz. up to 20kHz. -- a lot of movement up there, but can you hear it? I would think the PH3's being flatter up there is caused by the fine RAAL Ribbon Tweeter in the PH3's.

 

[GranteedEV]

The KEF's go crazy at around 10kHz. up to 20kHz. -- a lot of movement up there, but can you hear it? I would think the PH3's being flatter up there is caused by the fine RAAL Ribbon Tweeter in the PH3's.

Actually, the KEFs just have an on axis null caused by the round coaxial waveguide. As soon as you shift off axis into a more typical listening window the dip flattens out for a smooth power response.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

The KEF is referenced to a standard sensitivity input to show rated sensitivity at 1 meter. I didn't bother with that on mine--the dB absolute level really doesn't mean anything on my graph. The KEF's behavior above 10 kHz is probably due to the coaxial mounting of the tweeter--there are some reflections and cancellatioons within the midrange (woofer?) cone. It probably smooths out of axis. In any event, the KEF seems to measure very well, atlhough I don't really know the measurement conditions.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Philharmonic Audio Phil 3 - On Axis FR Plot

Like DM stated, major difference when you look at the Granualarity/Resolution on the Y-Axis for SPL, also a difference around 300-500 Hz. but very hard to determine with 10db Markers.

Also, the KEF's were measured it looks like with 85db as their Reference, and I do not know why, where the Philharmonic PH3 plot is right on at 75db Reference.

The Phil3's look flatter at around 800-1500 Hz. than the KEF's.

The KEF's go crazy at around 10kHz. up to 20kHz. -- a lot of movement up there, but can you hear it? I would think the PH3's being flatter up there is caused by the fine RAAL Ribbon Tweeter in the PH3's.

Hope U'r not dissin' my 201/2s.

They sound purdy good N all.

 

[DenPureSound]

Hope U'r not dissin' my 201/2s.

They sound purdy good N all.

Not Dissin them or Ditchin them at all...

Just wanted to see how they compare to the PH3's, since they are Reference Speakers, just like my REFERENCE KLIPSCH RF-82II's.

Everyone wants to call their speakers "REFERENCE" !!

 

[DenPureSound]

The KEF is referenced to a standard sensitivity input to show rated sensitivity at 1 meter. I didn't bother with that on mine--the dB absolute level really doesn't mean anything on my graph. The KEF's behavior above 10 kHz is probably due to the coaxial mounting of the tweeter--there are some reflections and cancellatioons within the midrange (woofer?) cone. It probably smooths out of axis. In any event, the KEF seems to measure very well, atlhough I don't really know the measurement conditions.

Dennis Murphy -- when you ran your FR plots, is the measurement mic also at 1 meter in distance away from the driver, and at what height, to align with the Planar mid-range driver, or the RAAL tweeter or ?

Also, isn't it true to state, that when the speaker is measured in the Anechoic chamber of which your plots are showing, and then one moves it to his room, things look totally different in FR plots with the room reflections, etc.?

In other words, isn't it true to state what looks nice and ruler-flat in the anechoic chamber is not what it looks like in ones room?

Oh yea, BTW -- are you Serializing Each and Every Speaker, and keeping the measurements and exact Xover design w/tweaks as required for them on file there?

Had to put that in, as I know ADTG forgot that one also...like the elastomeric vibration isolation gaskets for all drivers.

 

[GranteedEV]

Not Dissin them or Ditchin them at all...

Just wanted to see how they compare to the PH3's, since they are Reference Speakers, just like my REFERENCE KLIPSCH RF-82II's.

Everyone wants to call their speakers "REFERENCE" !!

I'll make sure to call my speakers "Citation"

...wait... Harman already took that too... and I just meant it tongue-in-cheek.

 

[DenPureSound]

I'll make sure to call my speakers "Citation"

...wait... Harman already took that too... and I just meant it tongue-in-cheek.

What are "My Speakers" being made with? Are you doing a kit design/buy and pray it works scenario, or a known working design?

I am going to use some Cardboard boxes and get started right away, can't wait, ....

Calling mine "SupremeReference +/-1" <== don't take that one Grant it is Copyrighted already.