Parasound Volume Pot part two

Cos

Cos

Audioholic Field Marshall
I have the A21 & A51 and I must have less sensitive hearing, my amps are dead silent to me. I believe my AV8802A is fully balanced, I don't have any issues with sound quality and doubt I would notice any difference if I switched to a comparable ATI amp which is fully balanced, was going to try ATI in my new house because I could get 7 channel options that Parasound does not offer, so I may yet test that theory out.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
I have the A21 & A51 and I must have less sensitive hearing, my amps are dead silent to me. I believe my AV8802A is fully balanced, I don't have any issues with sound quality and doubt I would notice any difference if I switched to a comparable ATI amp which is fully balanced, was going to try ATI in my new house because I could get 7 channel options that Parasound does not offer, so I may yet test that theory out.
I am almost certain that the 8802A is not fully differential. I suppose you may call its outputs fully balanced, but fully differential would imply differential from input all the way to output and that would add a lot of parts and costs to a 11 channel preamp. For multichannel prepros within the D&M, as far as I know the Denon AVP is fully differential as confirmed by Gene. Fully differential amp configuration don't just minimize noise, but also distortions. Whenever the benefits are audible or not is a different story.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Yeah, pretty sure the only DM components that are fully balanced are the $7500 Denon AVP-A1 @ $7500 POA-A1.
 
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Field Marshall
I am almost certain that the 8802A is not fully differential. I suppose you may call its outputs fully balanced, but fully differential would imply differential from input all the way to output and that would add a lot of parts and costs to a 11 channel preamp. For multichannel prepros within the D&M, as far as I know the Denon AVP is fully differential as confirmed by Gene. Fully differential amp configuration don't just minimize noise, but also distortions. Whenever the benefits are audible or not is a different story.
You are correct, reading can be fun, and apparently I didn't have any fun when I was researching as I thought it was. lol
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
You are correct, reading can be fun, and apparently I didn't have any fun when I was researching as I thought it was. lol
Technical speaking to say fully differential from input to output covers everything. It is when they say fully balanced output then we have to do more digging.:D I think even for people with no hearing loss and trained listening skill, the difference between fully differential and not would be inaudible or negligible at best. That's assuming the best circuitry and matching (hand/ears picked) components are used from input to output in the differential implementation. If not, the theoretical benefits could potential turn negative. Take that into consideration, I would be skeptical with low cost fully differential amps, especially the high power 5/7 channel amps.
 
E

ellbunda

Audiophyte
I have to share my next experience with defective vol potentiometer and exchange.
I have big problem I am hearing noise/Hiss while turning the volume up. I wrote about problem to support Parasound.
They very fast replied back to me on weekend (Saturday) excellent. He apologized for the problem with the P 5 volume control and and promised that Soon this episode will be behind me. I am from Europe. Richard write to me that send new alps vol. pot to my local distributor with instructions for how to change the part. Even though local service already had a spare pot I had to wait 14 days for repairs, seviceman was on vacation. This week I received a "corrected" preamplifier Parasound Halo P5. After replacing vol potentiometer sound changed. Sound is now different than original Parasound. Certainly not a problem on my component. I have everything connected properly, I did not change anything. Now this is not original parasound sound when I like. Changed brightness, bass is flat.
I was desperate and I can not get used to it. The difference is large.

I contact Rchard from Parasound and this is his answer:

Hello,
I'm interrupting my vacation in Sicily to answer you:
Please give it more time. You simply need to adjust to the sound with the new part. In fact, it is superior sonically and every report we have received from people who had the volume potentiometer replaced has indicated and appreciated the improvement in the sound. It's as good as a P 5 can get.
bst rgds,
Richard
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Please give it more time. You simply need to adjust to the sound with the new part.
Richard
Need more time for Placebo to take effect.:D The original pot shouldn't have changed the sound right?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
If it's cleaner, less distortion, less noise, it has to sound better, unless the original part was causing some distortion that some people preferred (like tube amps). :)

Can't make everyone happy. :)
 
E

ellbunda

Audiophyte
I understand burn cables, new loudspeakers, new part etc., but the difference in sound after the repair is big for me (the same components, the same cables, the same song many times listening sessions) this is not PLACEBO. ;):confused:

!I give it more time!:(

I just wanted to warn others that Parasound has a problem with vol. pot and that their support in Europe is slow.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I understand burn cables, new loudspeakers, new part etc., but the difference in sound after the repair is big for me (the same components, the same cables, the same song many times listening sessions) this is not PLACEBO. ;):confused:

!I give it more time!:(

I just wanted to warn others that Parasound has a problem with vol. pot and that their support in Europe is slow.
So the "fix" to the problem caused another problem - BAD SOUND ? :D
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Spartan
That doesn't make sense to me. If they do fully differential preamp, they should do the same with the amp.

Why.......my AVP-A1HD pre-pro is fully differential and my ATI amps are also fully differential. :D
Noise, or in particular S/N is a critical parameter on the Pre-amp side since any introduced noise here gets amplified by the amp.

Noise is less of a critical parameter on the amp side, and if you notice it is typically quoted with the THD....THD+N.

So, there is some logic to the madness.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Noise, or in particular S/N is a critical parameter on the Pre-amp side since any introduced noise here gets amplified by the amp.

Noise is less of a critical parameter on the amp side, and if you notice it is typically quoted with the THD....THD+N.

So, there is some logic to the madness.
Most $500 AVR have SNR of better than 100dBA these days. I don’t think noise is a big concern.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 
A

Ace Deprave

Audioholic Intern
Well, after living with the issue for over a year, I finally got around to calling and getting an RA number for my P5. Shipped it off yesterday ($90, wow!) and hope to get it back some time next week. So far, Richard and Tony have been great to deal with. Hopefully the repair fixes the problem for good.
 
ematthews

ematthews

Audioholic General
I sent mine in a while back and ended up exchanging for a P7. I have yet to hook up the P7 as I just moved and have been without my system for almost three months. I had a chance to repair again or replace. They put the new component in the first time and the symptoms came back. It took almost 4 months for the problem to come back after a new Pot was installed. I think something else is going wrong with the whole unit. I was done after all that and exchanged it. Parasound went above and beyond to help, so I am good. I just hope I have no issues with the P7 once I get it up and running.
 
A

Ace Deprave

Audioholic Intern
I'm hoping that they've figured out why your problem came back and have rectified the issue...I really like the P5, and hope to be able to keep it. I wonder if anyone else who has had theirs repaired has had the issue return like you did.
 
O

ousi00

Audiophyte
Just registered to chime in.

I ordered a P5 and A23 too, was looking at replacing my Sony TA-A1ES which I think lacks the bottom end drive for my KEF LS50...

I too have issue on the volume pot on the P5. The problem was not noise, but unbalanced L/R. If the pot is set to very low level (below 9 o'clock) it's clearly that the left channel is louder than right channel. Confirmed with both the headphone output and the pre-out connected to the A23 (balanced and single-ended); of course with different source - O2 DAC (single ended),HAP-Z1ES (balanced),NS3100ES (single ended) and USB. Double checked with reversing the wiring (on A23, and on my MDR-Z7 headphone) and the balance swapped to the other side instantly - confirmed.

Then, I asked for an exchange and even though it's a brand new one (the previous one was demo) it still exhibit the same issue.

The L/R unbalance is prominent in low volume level, and it continues all the way to middle level (12 o'clock position) with lesser distinction.

In any case, with that kind of "unbalance" thing happening on a pre-amp, it's not acceptable in any case. The P3 looks to have an electronic volume control and I might try my luck on a used P3 instead.

And I don't dare to try their Integrated Amp given that experience and OP's experience. Maybe the P7 is a better one (seems to have electronic volume control too) but I don't need 7 channels since I use an Onkyo Pre/Pro with a 2-channel preamp inline (Cary Audio SP-100) that connects to a Krell Evo 302 (front) and Parasound 5125 (for rear, center).

Looks like I might be just keeping the Sony TA-A1ES until I can find a used Bryston integrated or something with more oomph.

Or... go DIY and get a matching Goldpoint stepped attenuator to replace that sloppy volume pot.
 
E

ellbunda

Audiophyte
after repair and replacement new vol pot from parasound and after a few months problem with the P 5 volume control is back. Noise/Hiss while turning the volume up and NOW PLUS unbalanced L/R. If the pot is set to very low level it's clearly that the left channel is louder than right channel.

I think it is a serious problem that should be addressed manufacturer.

I really do not know what to do.
Leave again to repair?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Just registered to chime in.

I ordered a P5 and A23 too, was looking at replacing my Sony TA-A1ES which I think lacks the bottom end drive for my KEF LS50...

I too have issue on the volume pot on the P5. The problem was not noise, but unbalanced L/R. If the pot is set to very low level (below 9 o'clock) it's clearly that the left channel is louder than right channel. Confirmed with both the headphone output and the pre-out connected to the A23 (balanced and single-ended); of course with different source - O2 DAC (single ended),HAP-Z1ES (balanced),NS3100ES (single ended) and USB. Double checked with reversing the wiring (on A23, and on my MDR-Z7 headphone) and the balance swapped to the other side instantly - confirmed.

Then, I asked for an exchange and even though it's a brand new one (the previous one was demo) it still exhibit the same issue.

The L/R unbalance is prominent in low volume level, and it continues all the way to middle level (12 o'clock position) with lesser distinction.

In any case, with that kind of "unbalance" thing happening on a pre-amp, it's not acceptable in any case. The P3 looks to have an electronic volume control and I might try my luck on a used P3 instead.

And I don't dare to try their Integrated Amp given that experience and OP's experience. Maybe the P7 is a better one (seems to have electronic volume control too) but I don't need 7 channels since I use an Onkyo Pre/Pro with a 2-channel preamp inline (Cary Audio SP-100) that connects to a Krell Evo 302 (front) and Parasound 5125 (for rear, center).

Looks like I might be just keeping the Sony TA-A1ES until I can find a used Bryston integrated or something with more oomph.

Or... go DIY and get a matching Goldpoint stepped attenuator to replace that sloppy volume pot.
So, you reversed the cable, at one end, or at both? Did you try another cable? If you only reverse the cable at one end, you verified that the power amp's input controls are set the same, but didn't do anything to verify the preamp's output. You would need to use only one cable, connected to one channel of the power amp- this eliminates one variable (the power amp's other channel) and you still need to remove the other variable (the cable for the second channel).

The imbalance being more noticeable at low levels is natural- try one cable from each channel (or a completely different pair) and see if it still does this.

If you can find an example of the integrated amp having these problems, let us know- I doubt they have been a problem.

BTW- the pot isn't sloppy, but it may not be tracking properly. Unfortunately, art manufacturing isn't perfect and end users as well as equipment manufacturers are at the mercy of chance or human failings.
 

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