Official Denon AVR-5805 Review Support Thread

Takeereasy

Takeereasy

Audioholic General
Ah, then one shiny pitcher of Sangria and some frilly glasses with which to better enjoy the hootch it is then.
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
audyssey said:
Howie,

Denon has made your wish come true in the 5805. By providing what they call "LFE+Main" as a bass management mode, any speaker that can go lower than 80 Hz is bass managed correctly by sending the bass below its cutoff frequency to the sub. It doesn't matter if you set the speaker to "Large" or "Small", the LFE+Main subwoofer setting will enable bass management.

Regards,
Chris
My 3805 has LFE+Main also. Switching from LFE to LFE+Main cuts a sizeable amount of bass output to the sub. Don't expect to get mind boggling bass from the sub if you select LFE+Main. It's not the same.
 
A

audyssey

Enthusiast
Buckeyefan 1 said:
My 3805 has LFE+Main also. Switching from LFE to LFE+Main cuts a sizeable amount of bass output to the sub. Don't expect to get mind boggling bass from the sub if you select LFE+Main. It's not the same.
Buckeyefan,

If there is a cut in the bass when you switch to LFE+Main then that means that the crossover setting for the lowpass filter to the sub is set too low. So the bass information in the frequency range between what your speaker can handle and what is being sent to the sub is being lost (thus the apparent "cut" in bass level that you report).

This could be happening in two places: (i) in the 3805 settings or (ii) in the low-pass filter setting on your sub (if it has one that can't be defeated). The worst-case scenario is if both the 3805 and the sub are trying to perform low-pass filtering at the same frequency.

LFE+Main is not supposed to give mind-boggling bass. In fact, it is not some sort of bass boost. It is simply a bass management mode that directs the bass to the right place when the front speakers be set to "Large" even if they don't go down to 20 Hz.

Regards,
Chris
 
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shokhead

shokhead

Audioholic General
LFE+Main means the mains are getting the full LFE,same as the sub. I belive if you choose that,there isnt a x over to pick in the reciever,its off the menu.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
LFE+Main means the mains are getting the full LFE,same as the sub.
Actually LFE will not go to the mains. This setting simply allows bass from mains to go both to mains and sub channel.
 
Duffinator

Duffinator

Audioholic Field Marshall
Are two boxes better than one?

I didn’t get much done at work this morning, other than reading this review of course. :eek:

What an incredible piece of equipment and a terrific, detailed review from the staff of Audioholics. The 5805 is beyond my needs but I look forward to some of this technology like the advanced bass management and room eq trickling down to their mid-fi receivers. Denon clearly set new standards in the receiver category and continually pushes the envelop of what’s achievable in today’s consumer electronics. And that’s the reason why I look at Denon products first when considering new equipment.

One question I have is would this receiver be better served being in two boxes instead of one? You could have the main box have all the processing boards in it and a second box with the amps/multiroom processing/amp processing in it. They could be connected by a Firewire or “Denon Link”. I know this is getting back to separates but what I’m proposing here is two boxes that have to be purchased and used together. This would accomplish a few things like getting most of the heat away from a majority of the circuit boards, heat is not their friend. It will make it easier to fit into existing home theater installations. Give them more room for other features like the ability to play MP3's streamed from a PC. And you won’t hurt your back trying to lift it. :rolleyes: The 5805 is truly a technological marvel but at some point size does matter.

A couple of other comments: I’m surprised they would start selling the receiver without the OSD through HDMI. Was this an after thought??? :confused: It should have been included in the first units.

The remote has to go. It appears to be very similar to the remote that came with my 3805 and I cannot read it unless the room is dark. Most people won’t use it other than to program their system remote but still something more usable is in order.
 
W

wolfmd

Audiophyte
Great review!

After having graduated from a 5700 to a 5803 to a 3805 to the new 5805, I would like to add a couple comments. First, this thing is a BEAST! When I first tried taking it out of the box, I was sure the box was stuck on something on the floor...it was THAT heavy! I usually chuckle at reviews that make some mention of having their neighbors over to help them lift thier new gear onto the BOTTOM shelf of their rack, but after giving it the first two (unsuccessful) attempts on my own, I began to consider doing just that. However, I soon realized that if I invited someone over to help me get it on the rack, they'd want to stay to listen to it once I'd gotten it set up. Being too selfish to share the initial audition, I mustered up the last ounce of machismo I had, and was JUST able to swing this massive piece onto my rack.

After my recovery period for the herniated disc that I received for my machismo installation efforts (kidding), I sat down and began to sort through all the options. I thought I could wing this; after all, I had mastered the previous three versions, the 5803 itself not a small feat. I was wrong again. This is a complex piece, BECAUSE of the numerous configuration possibilities, but well worth the effort. The sound is, as Gene's review states, simply incredible and POWERFUL. But, you must be patient, Luke... :rolleyes:

RED and SHOKHEAD, I would advise you to reconsider your decision against the 5805 just because of the number of connections on the back or because you have the 3805. The connections on the back are clearly labeled, and in truth there are not that many more than the 3805 has. The ones that ARE new are the ones that're going to make a difference...the extra amps that can be used to bi-amp the 3 front channels (which is what I'm doing), running a second complete 5.1 surround room, and (most important for me) having the ability for HDMI switching, with a DVI connect, as well. You can only use one HDMI connection at a time, so keep in mind that if you have two DVD players connected with HDMI, you can't use the second to drive the 2nd 5.1 surround room AT THE SAME TIME. In addition, the 3805 doesn't have an ethernet port, which I understand will soon enable 5805 owners to link their 5805 into home networks. The POWER of the 5805 is also MUCH greater than the 3805, which I know is no slouch. You simply need to do yourself the favor of experiencing this for yourself before writing it off.

I do have one gripe, and, Gene, I respectfully disagree with you on this one. If Denon expects people to shell out 6 G's for this piece, then for cripes' sake, THROW IN THE EQUALIZATION MIKE!! What does this cost, like 30 bucks? Probably costs them 5 to make. Sheesh, was I mad when I found out that I'd have to make a seperate run to Best Buy just to complete the installation. I know that they're gearing this to home installers, but then why even SELL it to the general public if they're so afraid that it'll be set up wrong? And anyways, WHO CARES? If some old granny wants to buy a Corvette, I'll bet Chevrolet won't make her put training wheels on it...why is Denon so concerned about this? If this is the case, then they should just include a fill-out form to send in for the mike, so that new owners get one for free, but have to wait for a week or so to get the mike. This would allow for the initial "experiment" stage to sink in, so that, once the mike arrived, the owner would be more knowledgable. :cool:

Small gripe for an otherwise GREAT product. All of you "seperates are better" freaks out there, I DARE you to do a blind A-B listening test between this receiver and comparable seperates of your choice. I bet you'll be surprised.

-Doc
 
B

briansmith

Junior Audioholic
Gene,

I have a question on how you calibrated the system. For the first 4 positions you held the microphone in your hand and pointed it at each speaker as the test tone moved around the room. Is this correct? My main concern is that one's body would get in way and cause reflections and/or absorption. Did you hold th microphone out away from your body?

Did you keep your hand at ear level? I think I might try this approach tonight to see it it improved the brightness I am experiencing.

-Brian
 
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gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
One question I have is would this receiver be better served being in two boxes instead of one?
Actually Denon did a great job with heat management and isolation on this receiver so its really not necessary. Believe it or not, if they were to take the amp section out, the cost to the end user would be around the same, since their sales quantities would be much lower and thus cause higher production costs. However if heat or size is an issue for you, they are coming out with separates solutions soon or you can always consider their new AVR-4806 which is both cheaper and smaller but has less power and cannot do multi room surround.

Gene, I respectfully disagree with you on this one. If Denon expects people to shell out 6 G's for this piece, then for cripes' sake, THROW IN THE EQUALIZATION MIKE!! What does this cost, like 30 bucks?
I hear ya and as a consumer I too would be a bit ticked off at this. But this product is meant to be sold and serviced by a certified installer to an end user so I can understand why they did not include the mic.

For the first 4 positions you held the microphone in your hand and pointed it at each speaker as the test tone moved around the room. Is this correct?
Brian thanks for the calibration questions and I should have perhaps made it more clear in the review.

Here is what I did:

For the ear level positions, I squatted down and held the backplate of the mic in the tip of my hands while extending my arm away from my body. For the higher verticle positions, I again extended my arm and stood behind the listening positions while directing the mic at each speaker that was playing the test tones. This is not perfect, but I achieved much better results this way then simply firing the mic up in the air laid on top of the couch. If you have a compatible mic tripod then you can also try that. Bottom line is keep the mic away from reflective surfaces if you can.
 
B

briansmith

Junior Audioholic
<< For the ear level positions, I squatted down and held the backplate of the mic in the tip of my hands while extending my arm away from my body. >>

If you were measuring listening positions, in other words, positions on a couch or chair where did you squat? Behind the couch? To the side of the couch?

I wish we knew for sure the most accurate way to take the EQ measurements.

-Brian
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Always stand/squat behind the mic not in front of it. Basically make sure you are never in the path of the mic and source being measured.

I wish we knew for sure the most accurate way to take the EQ measurements.
You do, read my review :rolleyes:
 
T

TimG

Audiophyte
AVR5805 and DVD3910 enlightenment

I am having the hardest time getting 5.1 sound out of
my system. At times it does work and that brings on a
great big SEG! What great sound from Dark Side of the Moon! I
have the 5.1 from the 3910 going to EXT1. I also have
the Denon Link connections as well as 1394. On the
head I have configured the DVD to Denon Link and set
up 1394 as well, both pointing to the 3910, also, zone
1 is configured for 5.1. l,c,r,sl,sr are connected to l1,r2,r1,l3,r3
as should be default. On the
3910 the 1394 setup option is unavailable and Denon
Link is set to 2nd. I do see the 1394 indicator on
the head but not on the 3910. I have read both
manuals but am apparently missing some trick to make
it work consistently. I have even gone so far as to
initialize the system several times but have not been
able to duplicate the working config I once had. I am also
having problems getting video form the 5805 to my
BenQ 8250 projector via DVI. I am using HDMI between
the 3910 and 5805. Is it the 30 foot DVI cable that is
my problem (knowing that max is supposed to be 15 feet)?
The projector is cieling mounted and that lenght is required
and the BenQ has no HDMI. Chagrined! Any pointers you
can throw my way would be appreciated.

Regards,

Tim
 
G

Geoh

Junior Audioholic
TimG said:
I am having the hardest time getting 5.1 sound out of
my system. At times it does work and that brings on a
great big SEG! What great sound from Dark Side of the Moon! I
have the 5.1 from the 3910 going to EXT1. I also have
the Denon Link connections as well as 1394. On the
head I have configured the DVD to Denon Link and set
up 1394 as well, both pointing to the 3910, also, zone
1 is configured for 5.1. l,c,r,sl,sr are connected to l1,r2,r1,l3,r3
as should be default. On the
3910 the 1394 setup option is unavailable and Denon
Link is set to 2nd. I do see the 1394 indicator on
the head but not on the 3910. I have read both
manuals but am apparently missing some trick to make
it work consistently. I have even gone so far as to
initialize the system several times but have not been
able to duplicate the working config I once had. I am also
having problems getting video form the 5805 to my
BenQ 8250 projector via DVI. I am using HDMI between
the 3910 and 5805. Is it the 30 foot DVI cable that is
my problem (knowing that max is supposed to be 15 feet)?
The projector is cieling mounted and that lenght is required
and the BenQ has no HDMI. Chagrined! Any pointers you
can throw my way would be appreciated.

Regards,

Tim
I feel your pain.......
The 5805 is a beast to setup :)
I'm guessing you have EXT-1 setup as the default of DenonLink if no signal is present (SACD). I'm not sure about the 3910 but the 5910 when 1394 is active, there is NO analog output. I have to go into the setup menu of the 5910 and turn 1394 off to get analog output. Then, when I want to use 1394, I have go back into the 5910 menu, turn on 1394, then go back into 5805 menu and set the proper input for DenonLink and what source 1394 is assigned to. Then all is well, finally :rolleyes:
DenonLink & 1394 don't want to work together, at least if you still want to use the analog outputs of your 3910 or my 5910. Problem is I don't want to waste the incredible sounding analog outputs of the 5910. Do the analog outputs of the 5910 sound better than the 5805, when feed the 1394 signal? Well no, but it's there, you know. You hate to waste what you paid for. Maybe I should pickup a second 5910 for analog only purposes :D

Digital Video switching has been a problem on some sources (Mortorola cable boxes, JVC D-VHS HD, etc....) Denon has a software fix out but it's not on their website as of yet. I've heard the fix works by making the 5805 NOT HDCP dependent. However your very long 30' cable could have something to do with it. Have you tried both the HDMI and DVI outputs of the 5805?

Regards,

geoh
 
U

utvvdo

Audiophyte
Denon AVR-5805 & DVD-3910

I have the same problems as Tim, my current setup is Denon AVR-5805 and Denon DVD-3910, I also have a ceiling mount Toshiba MT700 projector with HDMI in. However when I build my home, there were no HMDI cable of 30' lenght. So all I have is an 30' DVI cable, but i used DVI to HDMI converter to connect the projector. I also have a Dish network 811 receiver, it output to HDMI just fine, but my DVD-3910 would not output the video or audio to the 5805. Need help.
 
U

utvvdo

Audiophyte
Denon AVR-5805 review

Where could i download or printed this great review, thanks.

Vinh.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I also have a Dish network 811 receiver, it output to HDMI just fine, but my DVD-3910 would not output the video or audio to the 5805. Need help.
First off, I recommend you check with your dealer that you have the latest firmware installed as it helps with HDMI video issues.

The latest firmware I am aware of is the following file:
AVR_m0128_s0104_d1519_d1612_d1720_z0112_zd1802_v0083_dm10211_dm8bl1027_dm81027.bin

Regarding audio:

I would recommend using IEEE 1394 for the DVD-5900 and DVD-3910 or any i.link enabled universal DVD player for that matter. HDMI is not yet a complete solution for audio since it wont pass SACD.

Make sure you enable IEEE 1394 for the input you want to use your player on and set it to auto. If you go into the IEEE 1394 menu of the OSD of the 5805 it should display the model# of your DVD player. If it does then it should work.
 
shokhead

shokhead

Audioholic General
gene said:
Actually LFE will not go to the mains. This setting simply allows bass from mains to go both to mains and sub channel.
I guess i'm reading it wrong as i thought it said the the LF signal would go to both the mains as long as they are set to lg and to the sub.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I guess i'm reading it wrong as i thought it said the the LF signal would go to both the mains as long as they are set to lg and to the sub.
I think you are confusing Low Frequencies (LF) with LFE - Low Frequency Effect channel.

LFE will never goto the mains unless you select no subwoofers. However, the bass from the main channels will goto the subwoofer if you select "LFE + Main".
 
av-man

av-man

Audioholic
wolfmd,
we were told (if I am remembering right) that in the near future all receivers from the 2105 up will ship with a mic. The 2105 and 2805 will have a cheaper plastic mic and everything else will ship with the current version.
 
G

Geoh

Junior Audioholic
gene said:
First off, I recommend you check with your dealer that you have the latest firmware installed as it helps with HDMI video issues.

The latest firmware I am aware of is the following file:
AVR_m0128_s0104_d1519_d1612_d1720_z0112_zd1802_v0083_dm10211_dm8bl1027_dm81027.bin

Regarding audio:

I would recommend using IEEE 1394 for the DVD-5900 and DVD-3910 or any i.link enabled universal DVD player for that matter. HDMI is not yet a complete solution for audio since it wont pass SACD.

Make sure you enable IEEE 1394 for the input you want to use your player on and set it to auto. If you go into the IEEE 1394 menu of the OSD of the 5805 it should display the model# of your DVD player. If it does then it should work.
How do you find out what firmware your unit has.

geoh
 
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