Official Denon AVR-5805 Review Support Thread

[gene]

You, my freind, are and awesome reviewer and from this, I know how thuroughly you review products!

Actually I wrote the review for this one, but Clint also writes some great reviews!

My initial results are disappointing on both fronts. I find the the MultiEQ makes everything way to bright. In fact, looking at the OSD the Denon EQ is cranking nearly all of my treble frequencies by 4-6 DB.

Please follow the calibration guidelines I established in the review. MultEQ is IMO lightyears beyond MCACC in terms of accuracy. Also make sure you select "Audyssey" for the EQ after calibration. I found the other modes such as "Flat", "Front" etc to be useless. Regarding the bass issue, we didn't pass it off and are investigating it further with both Denon and Audyssey. Audyssey swears it does bass calibration, we will find out soon enough when the firmware can be verified. Stay tuned...

I don't think using HDMI for audio will let you default to iLink for SACD, you have to use the multichannel analog output of the 5910.

I will be doing a thorough write up on these formats in my DVD-5910 review when my sample arrives. Since my current DVD-5900 doesn't allow for auto switching between D.Link and IEEE 1394, I used IEEE 1394 exclusively in the review. Stay tuned for a cool announcement about D.Link next week from Denon

 

[AudioBear]

Please--Just One Less Feature

Great review of an obviously earth shattering product. Actually the piece may have taken reviews to a new plateau. The Denon AVR- 5805 inspires.

Just one detail for those of us who own a bunch of good quality amps and/or who bi- and tri-amp our speakers (often homemade). It's too bad that Denon doesn't make this unit as a pre-amp only without all those amps which will be useless to us. Useless--why? Well because there are no external amp-inputs that would allow us to take a pre-amp out, divide the signal, and feed it back into the amp inputs. There are many technical reasons why this can't be done and one even bigger one: people who want to do this are rare and are not Denon's intended market. Forgive me for being repetitive because all this has been discussed before elsewhere in forums but I was hoping to hear if anyone has heard anymore about a rumored Denon standalone processor. Will it ever be made?

 

[gene]

Audiobear;

Good comments and yes you are correct, their biamp mode is meant mostly as a passive biamp solution. Denon dedicated processors based off their new super receivers are on the way and we should be getting info around Cedia time about them. Stay tuned....

 

[audyssey]

Regarding subwoofer calibration:

MultEQ is designed to create a filter for the subwoofer using the same process that it uses for the satellite channels. There seem to be two different issues being discussed in the forums. The first has to do with reduced bass levels when MultEQ is turned on. This is likely due to the bass management settings in the 5805 that are complex and not named very well...The default setting is called LFE-THX-. With this setting all speakers found as "Large" are not bass managed. Only the LFE signal goes to the subwoofer. The problem may arise because of the definition of a "Large" speaker. It is one that has a –3 dB frequency of 80 Hz. The setting was designed for people with THX speaker systems in which the satellites cross over to the THX sub at 80 Hz.

However, if your speakers happen to have a –3 dB frequency of, say, 60 Hz then they will be classified as large (per Denon's requirement) by MultEQ. In order to apply proper bass management, the subwoofer setting should be changed to LFE+Main. This will take the bass below the speaker's cutoff frequency and send it to the sub(s) along with the separate LFE signal that may be present on the disc. Furthermore, as stated in a note in the 191 page manual, analog or PCM inputs will not send bass to the sub if the setting is LFE-THX-

A second issue that was pointed out relates to the subwoofer filter apparently not engaging, thus showing the same response in the bass with MultEQ on and off. This one is quite puzzling because it doesn't show up in our development unit. Other users have also noted that this is not a problem on their production units. We are running further tests and will report back shortly.

Regards,
Chris

CTO, Audyssey Laboratories

 

[Cygnus]

Actually I wrote the review for this one, but Clint also writes some great reviews!

Ohh...sorry..my mistake, but I was reffering to you, just got the wrong person in my other reply However, you are right! Clint does write great reviews as well, I liked the Denon AVR-3805 Home Theater Receiver Review

 

[shokhead]

Regarding subwoofer calibration:

MultEQ is designed to create a filter for the subwoofer using the same process that it uses for the satellite channels. There seem to be two different issues being discussed in the forums. The first has to do with reduced bass levels when MultEQ is turned on. This is likely due to the bass management settings in the 5805 that are complex and not named very well...The default setting is called LFE-THX-. With this setting all speakers found as "Large" are not bass managed. Only the LFE signal goes to the subwoofer. The problem may arise because of the definition of a "Large" speaker. It is one that has a –3 dB frequency of 80 Hz. The setting was designed for people with THX speaker systems in which the satellites cross over to the THX sub at 80 Hz.

However, if your speakers happen to have a –3 dB frequency of, say, 60 Hz then they will be classified as large (per Denon's requirement) by MultEQ. In order to apply proper bass management, the subwoofer setting should be changed to LFE+Main. This will take the bass below the speaker's cutoff frequency and send it to the sub(s) along with the separate LFE signal that may be present on the disc. Furthermore, as stated in a note in the 191 page manual, analog or PCM inputs will not send bass to the sub if the setting is LFE-THX-

A second issue that was pointed out relates to the subwoofer filter apparently not engaging, thus showing the same response in the bass with MultEQ on and off. This one is quite puzzling because it doesn't show up in our development unit. Other users have also noted that this is not a problem on their production units. We are running further tests and will report back shortly.

Regards,
Chris

CTO, Audyssey Laboratories

I looked around for a long time to see what bass capable speakers meant as to set them to large. Finally i found a couple of places that said,if your main L&R speaker are capable of playing down to 20Hz,then set them to large. I'm thinking if we had a pole,it would favor those that don't own those kind of speakers.

 

[audyssey]

I agree with you and believe that the following from p. 47 of the 5805 manual helps make your point:

• Parameters
Large.....................Select this when using speakers that can fully reproduce deep bass well below 80 Hz.

Small ....................Select this when using speakers that are not capable of handling deep bass well below 80 Hz. Most home theater main and surround speakers perform best when configured as SMALL. Deep bass content in any channel with a SMALL speaker is routed to the subwoofer(s).

* A subwoofer with sufficient low frequency playback capability can better handle deep bass than most main and surround speakers, and the system’s overall performance will be greatly enhanced when SMALL is set for the main (front) and surround speakers.

* To take full advantage of the performance of the Home THX certified speaker systems, set the front, center and surround speaker size parameters to “Small” and the subwoofer to “Yes”.

*For the majority of speaker system configurations, using the SMALL setting for all main and surround speakers and connected subwoofer(s) set to ON will yield the best results.

Regards,
Chris

CTO, Audyssey Laboratories

 

[gene]

Unless your speakers can produce linear bass down to 20Hz at all power levels, they should be almost always be set small. Very few speakers have this type of extension, especially when driven to high SPL levels.

 

[Danakin]

Will the AVR-5805 be able to process DD++ and DTS-HD or will DD++ and DTS-HD be converteded into others formats so that they can be processed. In others words how futureproof is the Denon AVR-5805.
If it is futureproof, will it take a software- or hardwareupgrade to process DD++ and DTS-HD

Sorry for the poor English (I'm from the Netherlands).

Danny.

 

[shokhead]

Unless your speakers can produce linear bass down to 20Hz at all power levels, they should be almost always be set small. Very few speakers have this type of extension, especially when driven to high SPL levels.

Yes but there's afew out there that think,i got these TOWERS and they are LARGE and need to be set to lg.

 

[audyssey]

Yes but there's afew out there that think,i got these TOWERS and they are LARGE and need to be set to lg.

That's crazy! Since when does size=performance?

Chris

 

[howie85]

Perhaps someday there will be a medium setting for speakers capable say 50hz or so. That will enable better bass response from the fronts and allow something other than small for those of us that have spent good money on speakers that are capable of better than 80hz. Then we can get the preformance out of our speakers that we paid for.

 

[audyssey]

Perhaps someday there will be a medium setting for speakers capable say 50hz or so. That will enable better bass response from the fronts and allow something other than small for those of us that have spent good money on speakers that are capable of better than 80hz. Then we can get the preformance out of our speakers that we paid for.

Howie,

Denon has made your wish come true in the 5805. By providing what they call "LFE+Main" as a bass management mode, any speaker that can go lower than 80 Hz is bass managed correctly by sending the bass below its cutoff frequency to the sub. It doesn't matter if you set the speaker to "Large" or "Small", the LFE+Main subwoofer setting will enable bass management.

Regards,
Chris

 

[gene]

Will the AVR-5805 be able to process DD++ and DTS-HD or will DD++ and DTS-HD

This remains to be seen. The code issues for DD++ are still being hashed out and likely won't be set until next spring. The first generation products supporting DD++ will likely downconvert to 640kps resolution to be compatible with legacy devices. Denon will either have firmware (or more likely) hardware upgrades to support these new formats when they settle.

I believe we are at least 2 years away from full fledged hardware and software solutions for DD++/DTS+.

 

[shokhead]

That's crazy! Since when does size=performance?

Chris

Instead of small/large,they should use a standard of under/over 30Hz or whatever.

 

[gene]

Instead of small/large,they should use a standard of under/over 30Hz or whatever.

No they shouldn't. Any speakers not producing linear bass extension down to 20Hz should be considered small. The AVR-5805 allows for every conceivable bass management configuration known to man. If you can't find an adequate solution for your speaker system using the AVR-5805, you haven't tried hard enough or you are mistaken as to how your system should be configured.

 

[Takeereasy]

I can't quite figure it out from the 40 pg. review or your passionate explanations on this thread, did you like the 5805?


And as for Tica's response on the second page I suggest you get her something shiny and/or frilly.

 

[shokhead]

No they shouldn't. Any speakers not producing linear bass extension down to 20Hz should be considered small. The AVR-5805 allows for every conceivable bass management configuration known to man. If you can't find an adequate solution for your speaker system using the AVR-5805, you haven't tried hard enough or you are mistaken as to how your system should be configured.

Whatever,Whatever! Could be anything. 20Hz? Fine. Example was 30Hz. Geez.

 

[gene]

I can't quite figure it out from the 40 pg. review or your passionate explanations on this thread, did you like the 5805?

ya think?

And as for Tica's response on the second page I suggest you get her something shiny and/or frilly.

Actually Sangria is her poison

 

[JJMP50]

5805

I was checking one of these out at high end store recently. A friend of mine is the manager and he told me he has only sold these to contractors (or the homebuilder) for installation during building. I guess that would be the best way to utilize the multiple zones. Frankly, I could never see one of these in my budget. Maybe after I buy my Dodge Viper.