No one read Stimulus Bill

[Rickster71]

If Karl Marx was alive, he would say... "I told you so."

 

[Tarub]

Hehehehehe!!! I got all your money now....y' all bunch of effing cry babies.

 

[Tomorrow]

To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. If we run into such debts, we (will then) be taxed in our meat and our drink, in our necessities and in our comforts, in our labor and in our amusements. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labor of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they (will) be happy.

Thomas Jefferson, 1791

 

[annunaki]

To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. If we run into such debts, we (will then) be taxed in our meat and our drink, in our necessities and in our comforts, in our labor and in our amusements. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labor of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they (will) be happy.

Thomas Jefferson, 1791

A great quote from a wise individual!

 

[rnatalli]

I hate to point out the obvious, but the U.S. is on the decline. I give it 50-100 years before complete collapse. How do I know, what has been happening over the last 30 years in the U.S. and world history going further back. You can't run this country like a mom and pop shop and running it as a quasi-socialism will only delay the inevitable. Either way, we're screwed. Spending money will only delay the inevitable.

 

[itschris]

Spending the money, the socialization of industry, is actually what's causing our decline. It's unfortunate, but he new liberal mindset that took hold in the 60's has slowly emerged to be a defining force in our country. In some ways, you have to look and find the fault with the access to media. The last 10-20 years we began to have 24/7 news coverage, we then had the explosion of the internet through the 90's. This drove our society to a 30 second soundbite mentality where to many stopped engaging in their own critical thought. I think more than ever, it really went all wrong when Bill Clinton became president. It really was the first time where politics became synonymous with celebrity.

The new liberal mentality is all about creating victims, giving someone to point a finger at, all the while gaining support creating a sense of entitlement. Obama has been doing just that. Using fear, using hopelessness to gain favor is cheap and below the standard of the office. The now famous quote by Rahm Emanuel, "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." says it all.

I wonder if 30-40 years we'll have inspiring stories about how families pulled themselves out of crisis through sacrifice and hard work, or if we'll all be taxes at 60% and talk about how at one time we were a great country.

 

[Alex2507]

it really went all wrong when Bill Clinton became president.

Good thing we had 8 years of Bush to put this thing back on track.

If Karl Marx was alive, he would say... "I told you so."

I feel like we just got Stalin out of office. Double

 

[mudrummer99]

My thoughts

Over the past few weeks, I have been thinking about a lot of things that I don't agree with in the world. Many of these things stem from many sources that I personally have no say in or input into the situation. But there are quite a few things that I do have a direct ability to involve myself in, so, for those of you that wish to read this, thank you:

1. Government has always been about an agenda. This is a truth. Every leader this country has had over the past 232 years has had their own agenda and has moved the government to that end. To think otherwise is ignorant.

2. The president, whomever it is, has too much power in our society today. The office of president was not created to push bills through congress and to enact a new system of government. The president is set to be the commander in chief of all of the executive branch, i.e. military and the like, and to be the check and balance for congress with being able to veto legislation that does not, in the president's eyes, have the best interests of the country in it. Now the president snaps his fingers and he has 50 congressional lackeys that will prepare and introduce anything the the president wants. This stimulus bill is just one example.

3. As much as everyone would like to blame the government, big government as many of you have said, the reason we are in this situation is big business. The government is trying to clean up the mess that many very greedy corporations created by having very shady business practices. If you say that there should have been some sort of regulation, you are voting for big government. If you say these companies should be let to lie in their beds, then you probably don't quite understand the absolute disaster that will come of that.

4. The road to recovery is paved with "No". This is a simple word that my wife and I learned about a year and a half ago when we couldn't figure out why we were perpetually out of money even though both of us have steady, reasonably well paying jobs. This country has been trained to believe that if you have the credit line for it, then you can afford it. That is absolutely insane, knowing first hand because I once was there. By learning that simple word, in less that 18 months my wife and I have been able to pay off nearly $20k in debt. Now instead of telling the country to say no to extras, like the house that is in all reality $100k more than you can spend, or the new Lexus, or, or, or, we are trying to fix the symptoms, not the problem, which leads me to...

5. Fixing the problem is not in our vocabulary. We fix symptoms. Arguably some of the most educated people in our society, doctors, fix symptoms. Is this their fault? No, they do not have the tools at this time to fix most medical problems. But that doesn't stop drug companies from pumping out this pill and that pill. What makes me laugh the most about the TV commercials of medication is that quite often possible side effects are incredibly worse than the disease or condition they are supposedly treating. Problem solving is a long, arduous process that many people do not wish to undertake, case in point the stimulus package.

6. Education is undervalued in this country, by a lot. In this behemoth of a bill that just passed, there was nearly no funding for education what-so-ever. Are you kidding me? Education is quite possibly the only thing that will pull us out of this rut within the next few years. We are barely in the top 50 in the WORLD in quality of education and we wonder why consumers don't know better, why we believe everything we are told. It's incredible how easily our society has accepted ignorance as the status quo. We shun those who are intelligent and praise those that can throw a football. Coming back to doctors, it is sad to see these extremely well educated people make a fraction of what a mediocre football player does, even the best surgeon in the world wishes they made as much as Peyton Manning.

Ok, that's enough of letting my blood pressure skyrocket. Thank you for reading, and maybe after some more thought, I will add on solutions since complaining is easy but answers are the difficult part (copy/paste that last part to your local senator)

Mike

PS, I in no way wished to offend or discredit doctors in any way, I simply wished to use an example of someone that I figured would be universally thought of as supremely well educated.

 

[Tomorrow]

Spending the money, the socialization of industry, is actually what's causing our decline. It's unfortunate, but he new liberal mindset that took hold in the 60's has slowly emerged to be a defining force in our country. In some ways, you have to look and find the fault with the access to media. The last 10-20 years we began to have 24/7 news coverage, we then had the explosion of the internet through the 90's. This drove our society to a 30 second soundbite mentality where to many stopped engaging in their own critical thought. I think more than ever, it really went all wrong when Bill Clinton became president. It really was the first time where politics became synonymous with celebrity.

The new liberal mentality is all about creating victims, giving someone to point a finger at, all the while gaining support creating a sense of entitlement. Obama has been doing just that. Using fear, using hopelessness to gain favor is cheap and below the standard of the office. The now famous quote by Rahm Emanuel, "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." says it all.

I wonder if 30-40 years we'll have inspiring stories about how families pulled themselves out of crisis through sacrifice and hard work, or if we'll all be taxes at 60% and talk about how at one time we were a great country.

Chris,

I'm not a sociologist, but I think you may have it wrong regarding the '60's. If you call the advancement of women's and minorities' rights to equal opportunity a liberal agenda, then you are correct. But I don't at all see it that way. The mindset of the decade was most certainly centered around the concept of a "counter-culture", not in any way a liberal attitude (except perhaps with the liberal application of drugs, sex, and rock & roll ).

Look at any newspaper from the '60's and you'll see pictures and read stories of hundreds of thousands of people, mostly young, taking to the streets to oppose the egregious and Orwellian acts of the government...something few of the spoiled class will do today. We wanted the government OUT of our daily lives and we hit the bricks to make it happen. That's not something likely to happen today, as the opposite is true. That is, the activists today want the government more IN their lives.

It's truly a depressing change of position. But maybe Rickster is right in that Karl Marx is laughing in his grave about the rebirth of Dialectic Materialism. The pendulum seems to have swung back to the opposite side.

But I most certainly agree with your attitude about the current state of affairs.

 

[Tomorrow]

3. As much as everyone would like to blame the government, big government as many of you have said, the reason we are in this situation is big business. The government is trying to clean up the mess that many very greedy corporations created by having very shady business practices. If you say that there should have been some sort of regulation, you are voting for big government. If you say these companies should be let to lie in their beds, then you probably don't quite understand the absolute disaster that will come of that.

Mike,

You make some interesting points. Some I agree with, some not so much. But I really have to point out a few things you may have missed when considering the above position.

Here is a fact you should keep in mind....there is no line of demarcation between business and government. (Remember Dwight Eisenhower warning against the Industrial-Military Complex?!) It is big money that elects government, especially the U.S. President. Where does that election money and other support come from? Big business! Unions..you say? That's naught but big business. Corrupt business you say? Why would an individual pay millions of dollars to be elected to a position that pays thousands? (Obviously...to forward the agenda of his/her supporters...your #1 point that you suggested to ignore was foolhardy.) But most assuredly, if you're talking about greed and mess, take a good look at the cabinets of the current and last 2 or 3 presidents...or the Senate...or the House...or any state government. It takes zero search time to find massive corruption and greed. Greed is ubiquitous, not just a plaything of business.

You blame big business for this mess of puzzle pieces. You better keep looking toward government foolishness for the rest of the picture. I'd also suggest a thorough reading of the constitutional history and the writings of Thomas Jefferson in particular to provide you with expanded insight as to the folly of our government.

 

[mudrummer99]

Mike,

You make some interesting points. Some I agree with, some not so much. But I really have to point out a few things you may have missed when considering the above position.

Here is a fact you should keep in mind....there is no line of demarcation between business and government. (Remember Dwight Eisenhower warning against the Industrial-Military Complex?!) It is big money that elects government, especially the U.S. President. Where does that election money and other support come from? Big business! Unions..you say? That's naught but big business. Corrupt business you say? Why would an individual pay millions of dollars to be elected to a position that pays thousands? (Obviously...to forward the agenda of his/her supporters...your #1 point that you suggested to ignore was foolhardy.) But most assuredly, if you're talking about greed and mess, take a good look at the cabinets of the current and last 2 or 3 presidents...or the Senate...or the House...or any state government. It takes zero search time to find massive corruption and greed. Greed is ubiquitous, not just a plaything of business.

You blame big business for this mess of puzzle pieces. You better keep looking toward government foolishness for the rest of the picture. I'd also suggest a thorough reading of the constitutional history and the writings of Thomas Jefferson in particular to provide you with expanded insight as to the folly of our government.

That is a point, that I guess in my head, I hadn't added together yet. Maybe I wouldn't have, who knows. I think my main point of that was that in fact greed is the big driver behind our current state, and that big business, and to the end that you state, government are the engines of the greed car. Unfortunately I'm not that well read on historical government (music performance, what was I thinking) so I really can't say that I know what you quoted from. What I can say is sitting back looking at the situation, from the easy chair I guess, that it is quite a bit easier to figure out where the problem lies and what should really be done about it. I have a small, if not incomplete, philosophy about issues with the world. Just about all of them can be boiled down to two words: Arrogance and Ignorance. Just about anything that could be thought of as wrong with this world can be fit into one of those two categories, at least by my estimation. Get rid of those, bringing me to my point about education which would all but eliminate one of them, would fix a lot of problems that are prevalent in the world (Greed would fall into the Arrogance column in my world).

Oh well, just the rantings of a 27 year old know it all that thinks things should be more obvious than they really are.

Mike

 

[jinjuku]

The guy hasn't even been in office for 30 days. You may want to back off a little.

I know there are some here that are recently laid off. How about we go to their new(when they get one) job just 28 days in and give them a bunch of shite...

I think it's funny how Bush received benefit of the doubt after 4 years, but Obama is somehow even worse after 28 days.

No wonder this country doesn't work in some grand ways. No one can see past their nose.

 

[NYyankeeboi]

I hate to point out the obvious, but the U.S. is on the decline. I give it 50-100 years before complete collapse. How do I know, what has been happening over the last 30 years in the U.S. and world history going further back. You can't run this country like a mom and pop shop and running it as a quasi-socialism will only delay the inevitable. Either way, we're screwed. Spending money will only delay the inevitable.

I can't agree with you more. Anybody who has even looked at history knows that a superpower generally lasts about 70 years. We tried over and over again trying to fix the economy with "programs" or "stimulus incenives". I think the only thing that has kept this country afloat after years of producing crap or nothing at all, is the dollar and that being the benchmark currency of the world, because god knows the U.S. is nothing but a consumer nation.

I didn't vote for Obama, or McCain, however its plain and obvious that Obama was handed a shipwreck. I thought people would give him a chance, but its no shock that American's went back their "instant gratification" attitude the day after the inaguration. The disaster of the bush administration has just begun to take effect, we have not seen anything yet. The administration was notified in 2004 about the effects a low interest rate would produce, yet they ignroed the warnings. They were warned of the sub-prime crisis in 04 by the fbi. They were warned of the credit defaut swap market...the list could go on and on... He was too focused on the war to do anything. These are officials that we as taxpayers support to look out for things such as this.

The past eight years of partying is, the greatest hangover in the history of the world. There are 19 million vacant homes, 10% of all homes in the U.S. are in foreclosure if not more, 20-25 million homeowners are underwater with their mortgage, $25-30 trillion of consumer wealth has vanished, the savings rate dropped below zero, consumer debt levels are at historic levels, and the banking system is insolvent. You have to hand it to us Americans, we really believe bigger is better.

At 21, I didn't even get to go to the party, but I sure as hell will be stuck with the bill.

 

[rnatalli]

Spending the money, the socialization of industry, is actually what's causing our decline. It's unfortunate, but he new liberal mindset that took hold in the 60's has slowly emerged to be a defining force in our country. In some ways, you have to look and find the fault with the access to media. The last 10-20 years we began to have 24/7 news coverage, we then had the explosion of the internet through the 90's. This drove our society to a 30 second soundbite mentality where to many stopped engaging in their own critical thought. I think more than ever, it really went all wrong when Bill Clinton became president. It really was the first time where politics became synonymous with celebrity.

The new liberal mentality is all about creating victims, giving someone to point a finger at, all the while gaining support creating a sense of entitlement. Obama has been doing just that. Using fear, using hopelessness to gain favor is cheap and below the standard of the office. The now famous quote by Rahm Emanuel, "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." says it all.

I wonder if 30-40 years we'll have inspiring stories about how families pulled themselves out of crisis through sacrifice and hard work, or if we'll all be taxes at 60% and talk about how at one time we were a great country.

It all started going wrong well before Clinton was in office. And you can't place the blame on the left as the right is just as much to blame if not more. We have created a paradoxical way of doing things in this country which will be the end of us. If you look at history and what individual variables single-handed brought down powers, we have seeds of several blooming.

 

[Rickster71]

This is getting a bit off track.

The fact is:
The stimulus bill was rushed through, because we were told, "It had to be signed."
It was signed on Friday the 13th. The bill sat on the president's desk until today. Why?
In those wasted three days, someone could have read the dam thing first, then voted on it.

Probably the most important bill to ever pass....and not a single person has read it, before they voted on it.

 

[Rickster71]

In this behemoth of a bill that just passed, there was nearly no funding for education what-so-ever. Are you kidding me? Education is quite possibly the only thing that will pull us out of this rut within the next few years.

I don't know of anyone that was able to fully read and / or understand the over 1,000 page bill.
So how do you know how much spending for education was included?

We are barely in the top 50 in the WORLD in quality of education ..

We are number ONE in the amounted of $money$ wasted, and or, spent on education.

 

[rnatalli]

We are number ONE in the amounted of $money$ wasted, and or, spent on education.

Same with healthcare

I think we're looking at this from the wrong angle. The real question isn't what's in the spending plan so much, but when did it take half a billion to build a high school? And on and on...

 

[rnatalli]

The link is up for the line-by-line accounting. I haven't looked at it, but there probably isn't much as no spending has started yet.

http://www.recovery.gov/

 

[jinjuku]

It all started going wrong well before Clinton was in office. And you can't place the blame on the left as the right is just as much to blame if not more. We have created a paradoxical way of doing things in this country which will be the end of us. If you look at history and what individual variables single-handed brought down powers, we have seeds of several blooming.

The only big things I remember about Clinton's administration is that:

1. We weren't in two wars
2. We were running a budget surplus

I wish we could have kept up that....

 

[annunaki]

The guy hasn't even been in office for 30 days. You may want to back off a little.

I know there are some here that are recently laid off. How about we go to their new(when they get one) job just 28 days in and give them a bunch of shite...

I think it's funny how Bush received benefit of the doubt after 4 years, but Obama is somehow even worse after 28 days.

No wonder this country doesn't work in some grand ways. No one can see past their nose.

I don't think many will disagree that the Bush presidency was not a good one. However, 5 executive orders in 2 weeks, and demanding from Democrat lackey's in Congress that something be put together (that no one has read completely) to "stimulate" the economy is a bit strong. Not that the action is not appreciated.

It does not take much more than a brain stem though to see that this "stimulus" package will do nothing but increase the size of the govenment. This spending is over and above the current budget (which is out of control). We don't fix debt economic problems by spending more. All they are doing is printing money backed by bad debts.

Fiscal responsibility is all but dead in this country on many levels. If Obama was smart, he would have called for a 35% reduction of all government offices across the board. Shrink the cost, cut back, let the free market system work itself out. Use the surplus to stimulate the economy (i.e. return it to taxpayers). The bailouts & stimulus reward failures, the auto industry is a prime example.

I really hope he can do some good, but economic logic and his actions so far are saying otherwise.